[#] Forum Digest [Deleted]

Stuart Wright said:
Any luck? This is taking a while.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay,

It looks like all of the errors you currently have is caused by the ThreadFilters add-on extending Forum Digest, and users visiting (for example) https://www.avforums.com/categories/classified-adverts.242/digest but it cannot find that action because you have the Forum Digest add-on disabled. Once you enable that you should stop getting those errors.

Also, we do offer premium support subscriptions that will allow us to provide more direct support to any issues you may have (especially during this transition period). Unfortunately, otherwise it is very hard to keep on top of all replies to all of our add-on's threads.

This support subscription also includes branding removal. You can view more details on this here

Jake
 
Jake B. said:
Sorry for the delay,

It looks like all of the errors you currently have is caused by the ThreadFilters add-on extending Forum Digest, and users visiting (for example) https://www.avforums.com/categories/classified-adverts.242/digest but it cannot find that action because you have the Forum Digest add-on disabled. Once you enable that you should stop getting those errors.

Also, we do offer premium support subscriptions that will allow us to provide more direct support to any issues you may have (especially during this transition period). Unfortunately, otherwise it is very hard to keep on top of all replies to all of our add-on's threads.

This support subscription also includes branding removal. You can view more details on this here

Jake
Click to expand...
Since I paid for the development of the Digest addon (as well as several others by Waindigo) I wouldn't expect to have branding on AVForums because of those addons.
I have re-enabled the Digest. Am getting these errors when someone opens Digital Points's Spy addon
ErrorException: Undefined index: node_type_id - library/Hex/ForumDigest/Extend/XenForo/Route/Prefix/Forums.php:14
Generated By: Stuart Wright, 5 minutes ago

#0 /home/sites/avforums/public_html/library/Hex/ForumDigest/Extend/XenForo/Route/Prefix/Forums.php(14): XenForo_Application::handlePhpError(8, 'Undefined index...', '/home/sites/avf...', 14, Array)
#1 /home/sites/avforums/public_html/library/XenForo/Link.php(377): Hex_ForumDigest_Extend_XenForo_Route_Prefix_Forums->buildLink('forums', 'forums', '', '', Array, Array)
#2 /home/sites/avforums/public_html/library/XenForo/Link.php(97): XenForo_Link::_buildLink('public', 'forums', Array, Array, 'forums')
#3 /home/sites/avforums/public_html/library/DigitalPointSpy/ControllerPublic/Spy.php(50): XenForo_Link::buildPublicLink('forums', Array)
#4 /home/sites/avforums/public_html/library/XenForo/FrontController.php(351): DigitalPointSpy_ControllerPublic_Spy->actionFeed()
#5 /home/sites/avforums/public_html/library/XenForo/FrontController.php(134): XenForo_FrontController->dispatch(Object(XenForo_RouteMatch))
#6 /home/sites/avforums/public_html/index.php(13): XenForo_FrontController->run()
#7 {main}

array(3) {
["url"] => string(61) "https://www.avforums.com/spy/feed?last=0&r=0.0641242649871856"
["_GET"] => array(3) {
["/spy/feed"] => string(0) ""
["last"] => string(1) "0"
["r"] => string(18) "0.0641242649871856"
}
["_POST"] => array(0) {
}
}
Click to expand...
Jake B. said:
it is very hard to keep on top of all replies to all of our add-on's threads.
Click to expand...
I think this is the responsibility of someone who releases an addon. If you can't 'keep on top of all replies to all of our add-on's threads', then you have too many addons or not enough staff.

Jake B. said:
This support subscription also includes branding removal. You can view more details on this here
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I think $40 a month is too much of a commitment to one supplier of addons.
I'd commission my own version of the addons rather than commit to that.
A much better solution is to charge a yearly fee for these addons. There is absolutely no reason why they should be free.
 
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You make it sound as if we owe support. No where, every, in the history of my life, have I guaranteed support for anything free.

And yet hot damn do we offer a lot of support.
 
Mike Creuzer said:
You make it sound as if we owe support. No where, every, in the history of my life, have I guaranteed support for anything free.

And yet hot damn do we offer a lot of support.
Click to expand...
Jon fixed bugs in his addons. I understand why you wouldn't, Mike.
I think that when you took over the responsibility for his addons, you also took over the responsibility to the people who paid him to develop them, like me. And his other customers, the people who relied on him to support those addons.
That's fine. I'll just have a new version developed. Of all of the Waindigo addons I originally paid for, I guess.
Extremely unhappy.
 
Stuart Wright said:
Jon fixed bugs in his addons. I understand why you wouldn't, Mike.
That's fine. I'll just have a new version developed. Of all of the Waindigo addons I originally paid for, I guess.
Extremely unhappy.
Click to expand...
Jon also went down a path that required him to giveaway his add-ons because he couldn't keep up.
 
Mike Creuzer said:
Jon also went down a path that required him to giveaway his add-ons because he couldn't keep up.
Click to expand...
No, Jon charged less for the development of addons to customers like me so he could release them for free to help the Xenforo community. It was a choice he made. Not being able to keep up had nothing to do with it.
Turns out it wasn't a financially prudent choice, but it was fantastic for Xenforo.
 
We came up with a structure, which we are still refining, a way to make sure that all these add-ons receive the proper crowd funding as is necessary for consistent development. We will sooner need to delete these, not mark them as unmaintained, if figureheads in the community who know better and know the development time required for add-ons let alone FREE add-ons are going to bully us around.
 
Stuart Wright said:
Not being able to keep up had nothing to do with it.
Turns out it wasn't a financially prudent choice, but it was fantastic for Xenforo.
Click to expand...
This is the same thing. Not being able to keep up and not financially prudent. He had to get a day job, and its a shame because he was a very talented XenForo developer. It is the fault of those who compare a full-time developer with someone who is a hobbyist and expect free service. So if you are going to demand business-like development, pay the businesses who work hard to build the add-ons. Or go to the hobbyists, the ones who go missing randomly or do not back up their work.
 
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I dont know Stuart or you Mike, but I am asking to myself why you have given Stuart such unfriendly responses.

He just asked if this is gonna fixed. Why did you react in that unfriendly way?

I think honestly, you don't owe support to the users who use this add-on. It is free and if you wanted you can delete it, as this add-on is now yours. But you owe support to Stuart as he paid for it. So the support is not for free, as Stuart has paid for it.

Isn't that the license agreement? I mean, Stuart had an agreement with Jon and in that agreement the support is included if errors should happen. And now you took over, so the agreement is now between you and Stuart. You can't just disable the agreement, am I wrong?

As I said, to us all you don't have that agreement, as this is a free add-on and you can do whatever you like, but not with the person who paid for the development. He paid for the development of something working, so it should work.

Hey, I don't want to put my nose to this thing but I just thought you overreacted Mike.



edit: Ok, now I understand the reaction of Mike after the messages below. Will continue the discussion via PM.
 
Last edited:
sbj said:
I dont know Stuart or you Mike, but I am asking to myself why you have given Stuart such unfriendly responses.
Click to expand...
Because of this:
Stuart Wright said:
I think this is the responsibility of someone who releases an addon. If you can't 'keep on top of all replies to all of our add-on's threads', then you have too many addons or not enough staff.
Click to expand...
The not enough staff part is what made me fall off my chair.
sbj said:
I think honestly, you don't owe support to the users who use this add-on. It is free and if you wanted you can delete it, as this add-on is now yours. But you owe support to Stuart as he paid for it. So the support is not for free, as Stuart has paid for it.
Click to expand...
That isn't true. We acquired the add-ons, not Waindigo's company. Therefore not the debt either.
sbj said:
Hey, I don't want to put my nose to this thing but I just thought you overreacted Mike.
Click to expand...
Not at all an overreaction, I'm consistently the one standing up for developer rights and I will be honest and upfront. Thats all. I'm making a stand so people like Jon stick around in the community. I've been in the business ten years, and when I see people demanding and pestering people, I won't stand for it. I'm tired of seeing people think they are owed support for FREE add-ons. We don't make any money off of these. Nothing.

Jon left because of this type of thing. People think that once the add-on is out there and you've installed it you can demand every feature you ever wanted.

Jon charged Stuart less money (I know this because I've funded add-ons from Jon before in the past as well) so that it could be released, and even if there was a guarantee of support (something we don't offer and I highly doubt Jon guaranteed it) that responsibility does not pass to us.

Any further discussion can be sent via PC. My stance has always been that free add-ons come as is, and no guarantee of support will be provided. Even though we support them when we can. If you need immediate support, we offer premium support and premium bespoke development.
 
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@Stuart Wright I realise you paid for this add-on to be built and need bugs fixed. They will be done as fast as we can get a o them. We received a lot of backlash and I didn't mean to center that on you. We took the addons as a favor to Jon and as a service to the community, and ever since mostly we have just been complained to. We are doing the best we can and if we are to hire extra help as you suggested we will not to afford it. And that's by charging for features and yea even bug fixes if we weren't the ones who built to original product. That said we will fix bugs as we can. This fix will be done next week.
 
Mike, people release addons on Xenforo either free or for a charge. Those people who release them for free do so for the fun of it or for philanthropic reasons, who knows. If the author wishes not to support addons, don't they state that in the resource? If addons are unsupported, I think people are fairly reluctant to use them in case there are problems.
So whether addons are free or not, the community expects a certain level of support unless the author states otherwise.
Now I used to be a professional coder so I know that addons on Xenforo are vastly under-priced for the amount of effort that goes in to them and I fully support coders charging for addons. In fact as I have stated previously, I'm much more likely to use an addon if there is a charge (and a renewal fee) because the author has a responsibility to support the addon.
Jon had an unusual way of running his business. He charged 50% of the development fee if the addons were released free to the community. He released a great many addons (wasn't he in the top 2 or 3 by number?) and I think this helped grow the Xenforo community in a significant way for years and he is to be commended for this.

But what about the people who paid money to fund the addons? Even at 50%, it was still a significant amount of money and I sponsored several of them. Are we now to be left high and dry? I notice that the credit we were given in the original resource descriptions for funding the addons has been removed.
Mike if you didn't consider this aspect of purchasing Jon's addons then I think you have overlooked an important consideration.
I think you should contact the original supporters of those addons and talk to them to ensure that they are not left feeling abandoned.

A recent update to this Digest addon has broken the Digital Point Spy page. I'm hoping that bug will be fixed.

Going forward, no, I don't expect support for free (even though that was the original deal with Jon) and by the way I only ever asked for bug fixes when his updates created them. As in this case.
I'm happy to pay a yearly renewal fee for the addons to ensure that I get updates and support. A reasonable fee like I pay to all the other addon developers.
But $40 every month for your premium support is, in my opinion, too much to pay.
It feels like you're holding me to ransom to fix your new bugs in the addons I have already paid for and I don't like that.

I respect you, Mike, and your company produces some great stuff for Xenforo. I also appreciate you have a business to run. But I do think you have taken on a lot of addons without giving proper consideration to the people who originally funded them.

Mike Creuzer said:
We will sooner need to delete these, not mark them as unmaintained, if figureheads in the community who know better and know the development time required for add-ons let alone FREE add-ons are going to bully us around.
Click to expand...
I'm disappointed that you would threaten to delete the addons we paid for rather than address the problem properly.
I certainly don't consider myself any kind of figurehead for the community and I am not trying to bully you.
I have 12 addons by Waindigo in use on AVForums, a good portion of which I funded in whole or part and I just want a fair resolution going forward where I can get a reliable level of support.

[Edit - I didn't see your latest reply before I posted this. Thank you for understanding. I would like to clear the air so maybe we can catch up on Skype again at some point.]
 
Robust said:
Didn't you acquire the name and domain too? Not taking sides here, but that's what I understood by your acquisition lol.
Click to expand...
No, we are using the domain as a tool. When we are done, Ill be giving the name back to Jon. I mean the brand is a play off his last name so I don't see why we should keep it :P.
 
Good job, very exemplary of you as Audentio Team.
A proof of how good you support your add-ons.
I'm not using this add-on but I want to thank you for holding your word and for taking care of this problem.
 
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