Facebook is killing traditional forums, but there is still time to adapt

[rickhz]

I believe things are going to get worse for us as forum owners. Facebook just changed their mission statement, and Zuckerburg has said that their new push will be towards "Facebook Groups" which have already been taking traffic away from forums. I don't understand why anyone would want to form a large FB Group. What is in it for the Group admin? IMO it appears that only Facebook makes money from discussions on Facebook. I do not see a revenue stream for "outsiders".


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https://www.forbes.com/sites/kathle...rg-gives-facebook-a-new-mission/#25363a851343

On stage on Thursday at Facebook’s first Community Summit, a gathering in Chicago of leaders from 120 different Facebook Groups, Zuckerberg unveiled Facebook’s updated purpose: “Give people the power to build community and bring the world closer together.”

Facebook’s new mission, Zuckerberg said in an interview at the company’s Menlo Park, California headquarters last week, doesn’t mean that the company is shifting away from connecting friends and family, but rather, that it’s broadening its focus to enabling people to connect with meaningful communities, too. Why do these communities matter, Zuckerberg’s case goes? They help users find common ground, which helps people engage with new perspectives and become aware of different issues. Groups also offer individuals personal support, which gives them bandwidth to look outward and address the biggest human problems, like climate change and global health issues. Being exposed to common information and ideas isn’t enough to bring individuals together, the thesis continues -- they need to identify with people who seem different from themselves to adopt new perspectives.


“For 10 years, we focused on doing everything around connecting people with their friends and family,” Zuckerberg said. “Now I think that there is a whole lot of similar work to be done around communities: Meeting new people, getting exposed to new perspectives, making it so that the communities that you join online can translate to the physical world, too.”

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Welcome to what Forum's have been doing for 20+ years Mark...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

@tommydamic68 I hear you...I am right on the fence of the cantbeatemjoinem philosophy. Having a group with paid members where sometimes personalities clash and intervention is needed is the issue...drama. When running a volunteer based 501c3 organization for hobbyists, leadership burnout is a huge factor, and adding the load of moderating a FB group where you have very little control on top of a forum, it just adds more complexity.

However you have me thinking of a different potential path, where if FB groups are reimagined to allow such tools to admins and moderators (like putting certain members into mod queues, restriction posts/day, etc) then marrying a FB group and a forum might actually become a little more palatable. Right now, it's hard enough to get people to participate let alone act in a leadership role...I got burned out

 

[tommydamic68]

@tommydamic68 I hear you...I am right on the fence of the cantbeatemjoinem philosophy. Having a group with paid members where sometimes personalities clash and intervention is needed is the issue...drama. When running a volunteer based 501c3 organization for hobbyists, leadership burnout is a huge factor, and adding the load of moderating a FB group where you have very little control on top of a forum, it just adds more complexity.

However you have me thinking of a different potential path, where if FB groups are reimagined to allow such tools to admins and moderators (like putting certain members into mod queues, restriction posts/day, etc) then marrying a FB group and a forum might actually become a little more palatable. Right now, it's hard enough to get people to participate let alone act in a leadership role...I got burned out

My moderator from my forum also assists in mod functions in my FB group.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

...which is great, if you have reliable people who are enthusiastic and helpful, while also not being a source of drama themselves.

 

[rainmotorsports]

I don't understand why anyone would want to form a large FB Group. What is in it for the Group admin? IMO it appears that only Facebook makes money from discussions on Facebook. I do not see a revenue stream for "outsiders".

I think you have a blind spot. You are in the world of forums for profit when a good percentage of people aren't. MANY MANY forums exist under for profit ownership that started as a forum for something and evolved big enough to find a buyer. The kind of people who start a forum, never load it with advertising, never ask for donations or set up premium options and gather a following, probably have a lot in common with those who want to start a facebook group.

I also see when you specify size into it. Some people start something not knowing its going to grow to a size. Whatever platform they start it on they might not foresee the scaling issues they will have.

Hell even in TBG's niche, we have seen a lot of people try and start for profit gaming communities. Rarely does such a thing succeed. We take in over $1000 in donations a month and while we often carry a balance, no one makes a dime. That's purely paying bills and keeping activities funded.

It's great if you end up with an advertising platform or even a marketplace that generates profit. But not everyone starts a forum or a facebook group to make money. They do it just to do it and in the end they might burn out and sell out or they might be involved for decades.

 

[Anthony Parsons]

I just don't really see the threat myself. People who use Facebook will continue to use it. People who don't, won't. I don't see FB group discussions come up in Google searches, which just removed most of any groups traffic.

We have an FB group for our owners corporation, of the 462 apartments in the complex, the group is about 250 strong. There are only around 30 owners, the rest are tenants / old tenants who have moved on. Very few actually post. Fewer can find existing content, so they ask the same question repeatedly, so people have stopped answering. Then the trolls, aggression and nonsense.

My wife is on an FB group for cavoodles (dogs). Its huge. The same question comes up over and over again, as people can't find the answers they want via search in older content. She, and most others who used to post in the group a lot, no longer do. Now questions sit there, no answers, or some new member tries to answer based on their knowledge. That's all they get.

FB groups have a market. That market is not every forum on the web. People have been claiming FB groups are closing forums for years, yet the majority of the issue IMHO, is poorly administrated, poorly designed, busy, ad laden, forums are being removed in general niches.

The ugly cat one used above... IMHO, a forum like that was doomed to die due to the specific niche which Instagram and FB are just made for. Repetitive ugly posts of cats to comment, then never be seen again. Social media does that better and it would not shock me that such forums died due to them.

You can't say every niche is going to get wiped out from Facebook, because that is nonsense. Specific ones will be affected, yes. Others will not. Others will flourish and find new footing depending on whether they do it better than FB.

I find users want four main things:

1. Super fast, no waiting around.
2. Very simple and clean to read.
3. Simplified posting to get their message down and gone.
4. They like their smilies.

Less is More.

Forum editors are still playing with things like color, font type, size, indents, alignment... all things that mobile users don't care about. You don't see the majority of these things on FB or the large social media sites. Because they're old thinking. All such things should be gone, especially where markets are now 70% mobile users in most instances. That means the majority of your audience wants the above points. People want to type, they may want to make a list, they may want to upload an image or paste a link (embed included). That is the market today.

Forums should adapt to the market, not to their old users. If FB works better for you, then use it IMHO. If a forum works better, use that instead, but do it to an equal level.

 

[rickhz]

It's great if you end up with an advertising platform or even a marketplace that generates profit. But not everyone starts a forum or a facebook group to make money. They do it just to do it and in the end they might burn out and sell out or they might be involved for decades.

When you start a forum your future is in your hands. You can decide to offer a paid membership, use Google Adsense, sell banner ads, etc. When you start a Facebook group you can create something "big", but it's under Mark Zuckerburg's umbrella. Only Zuckerburg, his employees, and shareholders profit from the effort of FB Group's Admins.

 

[Claudio]

When you start a Facebook group you can create something "big", but it's under Mark Zuckerburg's umbrella. Only Zuckerburg, his employees, and shareholders profit from the effort of FB Group's Admins.

Users want to make things fast and easy. They don't care if FB earns money with their posts.

 

[Brent W]

Users want to make things fast and easy. They don't care if FB earns money with their posts.

Good for them. Stay out of my space. Pun intended.

Edit: Fast and easy can be possible without this doomsday constant conversation of Facebook.

 

[tommydamic68]

The ugly cat one used above... IMHO, a forum like that was doomed to die due

I'm guessing your referencing my forum about the sphynx cat (the ugly cat)? If so perhaps you should have taken just a bit more time to see that my forum although small, is still thriving and busy as a bee 8 years later as well as my FB page and group and instagram. In fact, I own the niche, although small, Its the largest and only forum for that niche of its kind in the world (there is a foreign one - non english forum however - not even close to my traffic.) my forum is far from dead.

And yes the same questions in my Facebook group get asked multiple times, that is where I take the opportunity to link to my forum for the "correct" answer, not as a newbie to to the breed may want to share as you mentioned happens in some FB groups, most likely like your wife's Cavoodle FB group, what ever that may be, must make a mess of your clothes and house, an awfully hairy little thing, too much upkeep IMHO.

 

[sbj]

I am not (and was never) registered to any social media platform. I don't care about the videos and pictures and short, small 2-liners called comments/tweets.

I'm fond of discussions and information exchange. I miss the old good times, when forums were thriving.
And in 2017, a month ago I started using reddit after all those years. For anything I am interested in, there is a subreddit, a discussion place.

Social media overtook the internet and for 10+ years it is their game now. They killed (almost) forums. But forums can still stay alive briefly, because social media still doesn't have core features forums have. BUT reddit does. Reddit is a big, wide, popular forum with thousands of nodes, called subreddits. I think reddit is about to give forums the final deadly blow to bury forums for the eternity.

The rise of the smartphone (which I don't have) is the biggest threat to forums these days. Not Facebook, not Youtube. Smartphones!
All the advantages of a forum over other internet websites are due to addons/features. But because the screen is so small on smartphones, most addons/features can't be used naturally on a smartphone.

So not only the audience is gone to social media, the bit left audience for forums can practically not stay any longer on your forum because it is a pain to visit forums on a smartphone (I don't posses a smartphone, but I also don't live on the moon ). Hence why reddit is taking over now, in my opinion.

I think the progress of forums are too slow for my taste. I hope it will get better for us the next few years with XF 2.x. But honestly, even I have started using reddit now, because I can't find any living forums. All dead. For example, after IMDB closed their forum, I looked out for good forums about movies. None. Nothing. All small forums with non-existent online user-bases. But on reddit, I have a huge active user base which whom I can make a good discussion. Sure. I still prefer forum layouts for discussions, and not the nested viewing of reddit with its superficial upvoting thing, but these days I am not in a position to complain. I am happy when I can learn new things while debating and exchanging information. And if the reddit layout is the thing, I take it, better than nothing. At least there I can find people to talk to. From all over the world.

 

[Ramses]

To sum it up, we're all lost....

 

[rickhz]

Users want to make things fast and easy. They don't care if FB earns money with their posts.

Which is why forum software needs to evolve to make it as easy and "fun" to use as Facebook.

 

[Slavik]

Which is why forum software needs to evolve to make it as easy and "fun" to use as Facebook.

I am part of a few GTR forums and facebook groups. Both are equally as active because both have completely different aims.

The forums provide in depth information, long running discussions and usually quality content.

Facebook is for pictures, back slapping and "on demand questions" for simple questions, but soon as anything in detail comes up, it ends up back on the forum for a proper discussion.

I don't think it would be entirely outrageous to suggest that if you are struggling to maintain an active userbase against facebook, that your general quality of information is low or your demographic is a more instant gratification demographic not suited for forums anyway.

I would imagine many forums are adapting to this new model whether they know it or not and that actually, if your forum is still doing well compared to a few years ago, comparing the average post would probably show something similar, that your content now is much higher quality than back then.

 

[Alpha1]

Clearly Facebook is seeing Reddits space as a potential growth area which is probably why they are gearing up in this direction.

 

[drastic]

Look at the center of the screen on many forums - it's EMPTY.

Look at the center of the screen on most social media sites - it's CONTENT.

If you're a new forum user who is used to spending time on websites/social media where content is the focal point of the site, then you come to a forum where the homepage looks like a barebones directory, then you're going to lose users every time. When we're losing users because WE chose to be stubborn and not evolve the design of the forum, then forums slowly decline.

We need more intuitive ways to present content, conversations, and information.

We don't need to become the next big thing in social media, but we need to adapt trends in content presentation.

If you're 30 or older, then you probably know your way around forums and this doesn't affect you. But think about the younger people seeing a forum for the first time. Imagine what they're thinking after they find your site and they're clueless on how to use it when they get there.

Think about the new users and find a way to get them to STAY.

You know the old saying, adapt or...

 

[Anthony Parsons]

If so perhaps you should have taken just a bit more time to see that my forum although small, is still thriving and busy as a bee 8 years later as well as my FB page and group and instagram.

I think you missed my point and got personal about your emotional connection to your site. I was specific about the topic itself, ugly cat pictures, very much being an FB / Instagram market. I did look at your pages for both, and both seem to be the largest for the niche. I believe your words eluded along the lines that your forum was in decline. I am simply agreeing with your niche. Your niche would strive more on Instagram IMO of all the social media sites. Yes, your forum absolutely provides that platform to answer the frequent questions -- but a blog could do that. I looked at your forum, 0 registrations for the day, 2 new threads, about 20 new posts. Sure, I may have looked when stats reset, members online where zero too.

I am merely agreeing with what I assumed was your point about your own forum being in decline, and you adapted to social accounts that do better for that type of niche, being posting ugly cat pics with quick comments, like it, share it quickly with friends, tag friends, so forth, move on. There are always the diehard enthusiasts for any niche that will be more than that.

Look at the center of the screen on many forums - it's EMPTY.

Look at the center of the screen on most social media sites - it's CONTENT.

Exactly. Its what I like about the main theme designers... the ability to get rid of all that noise and blank space, columnise nodes and strip them of all the BS information that is just useless for people nowadays.

A few always claim they use something, yet when you remove it, a week later they never missed it.

I switched out to pixel exit + theme for the specific reason it was slighter lighter and faster than others, it gets rid of the old floating columns laying on top one another, shifts them into off canvas panels instead, leaving only what the user absolutely need on their mobile screens, top to bottom (yet they can slide it out if they want). I've found the more I stripped, the better my conversions and on page time.

The less onboard your site is with mobile usage, the worse your forum will suffer IMO as the years move.

 

[Robru]

We need more intuitive ways to present content, conversations, and information.

There is Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc. just right for the best addition.
These media are for the first impression.

If people wants to deepen into a subject, they will read further on the forums.
On a forum, everything is pretty quick to find. On the above media this is a disaster.

 

[tommydamic68]

Your niche would strive more on Instagram IMO of all the social media sites.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I have a piece of the IG market too @Anthony Parsons - https://www.instagram.com/sphynxlair/

 

[Kirby]

A great example of this is Threadloom and the new features they are rolling out. Offloading what can be a very difficult thing to get right, search, to a 3rd party who specialises wholly in search means we can get the best possible search tech as soon as the pro's are able to implement new features.

They must have a pretty good marketing department

Search for "maxi-cosi" with threadloom @ baby bargains (3.3 million posts): Document complete after 16.3 seconds
Search for "maxi-cosi" @ babyforum.de (9.6 million posts): Document complete after 6.8 seconds

Both tests were done from a location in the US with babyforum.de being hosted in Germany, if I did the test from Germany the result would be even better (around 5.5 seconds)

What sense does it make to use (and pay for) a service that takes more then twice as long to deliver results from a way smaller dataset?