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Drupal 8 Basics

#1
Drupal 8 isn't hard
Thanks again for your very interesting post, audio. On the one hand I'm feeling a bit encouraged by what you posted and what I found, but then on the other hand I also found other stuff where it says "oh yeah, Drupal 8 really is very hard, difficult, yada yada..." I also like your idea of XF with Drupal. I'm rather discouraged to find out that Hostgator apparently only goes up to Drupal 7, however, even though 8 has been out for a while now, so now I can't even try it in my Hostgator account. Would love to try it in my current hosting account even just for a nice simple site, but I have no intention of doing that with anything but 8.
 
#2
Good news, folks. Turns out they do have Drupal 8. It's just buried in a different menu than the immediately visible "Drupal" menu.
 
#4
sorry, I must have missed something. What is this referring to? Who has Drupal 8 buried in a different menu?
Hostgator. 8 is buried under the "CMS" menu of their QuickInstall section, but it does not appear under the immediate "Drupal" links which only go up to 7.

I loaded Drupal 8 onto one of my addon domains. Also, you have to find out what to do with an error message because of being defaulted to PHP 5.4x. If you find the answer, which is to reset your hosting to 5.5, then you can proceed.

If you have any guidance and good links on how to get started with Drupal 8 I'd appreciate that. Including adding XF to it, though my first need is getting started with a decent Drupal 8 starter site period.

Someone who recommends WP with XF also sent me this link, by the way. It's great: https://websitesetup.org/cms-comparison-wordpress-vs-joomla-drupal/
 
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Tracy Perry

Well-known member
#5
I'd NEVER use one of the "panel packaged" installations of Drupal (or any of the other Softaculous type installs if this is what you are referring to @Doctor) as they tend to be somewhat "customized" and you cannot easily upgrade them to the latest versions as you are bound to that install routines version(s). Best to download the script itself, install it manually and roll from there.
And yes, to fully use Drupal, it IS difficult for a lot of people to learn. Some have no difficulty picking it up, but some can also do advanced math in their head with no difficulty....
 
#6
I'd NEVER use one of the "panel packaged" installations of Drupal (or any of the other Softaculous type installs if this is what you are referring to @Doctor) as they tend to be somewhat "customized" and you cannot easily upgrade them to the latest versions as you are bound to that install routines version(s). Best to download the script itself, install it manually and roll from there.
And yes, to fully use Drupal, it IS difficult for a lot of people to learn. Some have no difficulty picking it up, but some can also do advanced math in their head with no difficulty....
I appreciate the warning, but I have a hard time believing there would be something watered down, distorted, deficient, or just plain different about Hostgator's use of these well known software systems. In fact, that would even amount to a gross misrepresentation of what is being provided with potential consequences for which they would probably have to be quite concerned about liability. There is nothing called "Softaculous" there. They use something called QuickInstall. When you install WordPress for instance, it comes with automatic updating. You can also add any WP plugin. Without further evidence I can't believe that the Drupal 8 provided by Hostgator is any different from installing Drupal 8 from scratch yourself. In fact, if that were so I would expect either the hosting account or the "bad" installation of Drupal to already be fine-tuned for Drupal 8 to operate to begin with, but it is not. You get an error message and have to find out somehow that you have to change to PHP 5.5 before the Drupal install will even work. You may be right after all, but I'm inclined to doubt it, and this would be the first time I've heard such a suggestion and I've been using hosting for many years.
 
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Tracy Perry

Well-known member
#7
hard time believing there would be something watered down, distorted, deficient,
Believe what you will. You (last time I checked) HAD to use "their" packaged version for upgrade.
http://www.inmotionhosting.com/support/edu/cpanel/softaculous/upgrade-within-softaculous
https://www.drupal.org/node/1966360 (says they do update within 24 hours, but whether the host does the same is another matter)
http://www.dummies.com/web-design-d...oftware-installed-with-softaculousfantastico/

And HostGator is NOTORIOUS about not keeping up with the latest on just about anything. They are more concerned with keeping it "stable" and EIG related companies are not the best known for their support.
 
#8
Believe what you will. You (last time I checked) HAD to use "their" packaged version for upgrade.
http://www.inmotionhosting.com/support/edu/cpanel/softaculous/upgrade-within-softaculous
https://www.drupal.org/node/1966360 (says they do update within 24 hours, but whether the host does the same is another matter)
http://www.dummies.com/web-design-d...oftware-installed-with-softaculousfantastico/

And HostGator is NOTORIOUS about not keeping up with the latest on just about anything. They are more concerned with keeping it "stable" and EIG related companies are not the best known for their support.
1. Then which hosting services do you recommend?

2. All your links don't convey what you were conveying in your post. When you go to your links, the message is nothing like what you are saying.

a. Inmotion is not even an EIG brand. Softaculous has nothing to do with HG. HG doesn't even use Fantastico anymore. And the link to Inmotion doesn't indicate anything of what you have said in terms of problems or defects.

b. The dummies.com link also does not paint such a dire picture either.

c. The only reply at the Drupal.org link says "Softaculous are very good at keeping things up to date" along with a reasonable cautionary word in the closing paragraph.​

There is simply no indication that the install of Drupal or any other software would be defective, distorted, non-standard, or problematic. The worst that appears to be indicated is that you may not get an automatic update immediately and there may be a small delay from when the software makers themselves release it. With Hostgator, for instance, you routinely get emails saying they have automatically updated Wordpress. So it would seem HG keeps up to date for that. As far as Drupal goes, my understanding is that you may need to do manual updates and people generally don't get auto-updates automatically for that with any hosting provider. There is no indication that Hostgator does anything non-standard that would make it impossible to do a Drupal update in your links. I'm also not aware of HG being "notorious" for such things. Using older versions of software perhaps? Maybe. For instance, they default to PHP 5.4 because it is what they call "stable," but they still allow you to switch to 5.5 and above. But as I've indicated they have Drupal 8 and they update WP all the time. I'm just not seeing evidence of the picture you are painting, so it's not a matter of me "believing what I want to believe." You haven't provided any evidence that paints as bad a picture as you are painting.
 
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#9
sorry, I must have missed something. What is this referring to? Who has Drupal 8 buried in a different menu?
Are you still here, audiokid? I'd much appreciate your best tips and links for teaching and tutuorials on how to get started with the first "baby steps" using Drupal 8. :)
 
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Tracy Perry

Well-known member
#12
, or just plain different about Hostgator's use of these well known software systems.
a. Inmotion is not even an EIG brand. Softaculous has nothing to do with HG. HG doesn't even use Fantastico anymore. And the link to Inmotion doesn't indicate anything of what you have said in terms of problems or defects.
You specified HostGator in the quoted message (shown above)... which IS an EIG company.

And as I said, if you keep it pretty plain then you don't have any issues most likely - but how many people keep it "plain"?

With Hostgator, for instance, you routinely get emails saying they have automatically updated Wordpress. So it would seem HG keeps up to date for that.
YOU are the one that referred to the "script" that is provided. Last I looked (and granted it's been years ago because I got away from HostCrapper as quickly as I could) they used Softaculous.
I personally think anyone that uses scripts like that to install has no business trying to even attempt to run a site. To me, those scripts were designed for lazy people who wanted to "brag and have a web presence" and could not take the time to learn how to install it themselves.

And do a little research on EIG, may be an eye-opener for you. EIG has a history of running good hosting providers into the ground by maximizing profits and minimizing support - but honestly, do whatever you want to, it's your money to waste.
 
#14
Good!

Have you tried to create an article or page?
I added a simple page and an article, but there are problems. Hostgator is supposed to be good for Drupal, but I'm getting error messages. When you go to Manage > Content, you get this:
Fatal error: Unsupported operand types in [...] core/modules/views/src/Element/View.php on line 49
When you go to Manage > Configuration, you get this:
One or more problems were detected with your Drupal installation. Check the status report for more information.
When you check the report, there are numerous issues like these:
Drupal core update status No update data available
No update information available. Run cron or check manually.
PHP OPcode caching Not enabled
PHP OPcode caching can improve your site's performance considerably. It is highly recommended to have OPcache installed on your server.
Trusted Host Settings Not enabled
The trusted_host_patterns setting is not configured in settings.php. This can lead to security vulnerabilities. It is highly recommended that you configure this. See Protecting against HTTP HOST Header attacks for more information.
And the two pieces of content I added do not appear even though they were saved for publishing.
 

audiokid

Active member
#15
Hostgator is supposed to be good for Drupal, but I'm getting error messages
I would drop this. Use the stock modules right now.
Q:Why do you need Hostgator?
Trusted Host Settings Not enabled
The trusted_host_patterns setting is not configured in settings.php. This can lead to security vulnerabilities. It is highly recommended that you configure this. See Protecting against HTTP HOST Header attacks for more information.
add this to the bottom of your settings.php (public_html/sites/default/settings.php) (note:) Change to yourdomain

Code:
 $settings['trusted_host_patterns'] = array(
  '^yourdomain\.com$',
 );
To install PHP OPcode, are you on a dedicated server with support?
 

audiokid

Active member
#16
NOTE: Drupal 8 is very secure as they have included extra steps to add in the settings.php . You can still function without these set, just ignore for now but I recommend doing the one above.
 

audiokid

Active member
#17
And the two pieces of content I added do not appear even though they were saved for publishing.
go to /admin/content (see Content in your admin) see content added and "publish".

To make the page you want as your "front page" /admin/config "Configuration" SYSTEM
yourdomain/admin/config/system/site-information

Change FRONT PAGE to the Node or url of any given page you desire. Its that easy. This will become your default front page. After this, its all about creating content and populating it all within your menu/structure.

Here is a stock Drupal 8 site of mine to give you an idea of what I have done, that you can do too visit. paintingguys.com
 
#18
Thanks for those tips. I'm going to have to revisit this, but need a break. I tried to make changes, but despite going through motions to change permissions I kept getting access denied even after the permissions were supposedly changed.

Really liked your Drupal site though. Very nice. I can see why you would want to add XF as the forum, however, since the forum there is clearly nowhere near like regular forums. I guess that must be the kind that comes with Drupal.
 

audiokid

Active member
#19
Really liked your Drupal site though. Very nice. I can see why you would want to add XF as the forum, however, since the forum there is clearly nowhere near like regular forums. I guess that must be the kind that comes with Drupal.
Thanks.
I bought (Forum Plus) for Drupal 8 forums but it had all sorts of errors so I dumped it because Weebpal support was terrible (n) . Its never been updated since I bought the product. It looks good though, which shows there is potential.

I wish xenForo would build a forum modular for Drupal.
 

audiokid

Active member
#20
I can see why you would want to add XF as the forum, however, since the forum there is clearly nowhere near like regular forums. I guess that must be the kind that comes with Drupal.
Where Drupal forums lack, they also excel in a way traditional forums lack.

I will try to explain:
Every time a new Drupal forum thread is created, it is really just another type of article. Once you understand this (what articles and pages are) these can share everything within the CMS structure (and be programmed to include more of the CMS as well)

Meaning, forums can be expanded into articles that share keywords (see taxonomy) that can be programed to autolink other content by means of direct links via menu's, keywords within the contexts of all related content which can be programmed to open or close windows called blocks wherever you want shown throughout the CMS.

Every thread (forums, article, pages) can be dedicated to just forums or full pages that can trigger images, blocks that can appear in a multiple array of sidebars, headers, footers etc.
Everything you create can be turned on or off depending on how you want something to appear.

The possibilities in how you want things to be presented are really unlimited.

Each member can have one or all of the permission granted. The CMS becomes a big big tool to build content. Forums are then, just a way to string members threads together, that can also be shown past the forum module.

xenForo would be one of many ways to create and share forum content within a larger main frame sharing its data with the CMS search engine.

This is when it gets exciting.

PS, all of what I mention can also be visible/ invisible on a user permissions setting. Meaning, if you don't want the public or a group to see area's of your CMS, its a simple checkbox.

Also, What one user see's is up to the next user. Everyone has the ability to use the CMS they way you want or allow.
 
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