Does It have the Look
- Thread starter abvolt
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HannahP
Well-known member
Surely I do not see that.
I use vB 4 and it works. I see an awful lot of complaints from people who still use 3.8, but if you don't use 4, I don't think your opinion of how well 4 works is really relevant. I did not install 4.x on my forums the day it was released. I wouldn't install any X.0 release of anything anywhere. I'm not interested in being an unpaid member of some company's QA department (I'm looking at you, Microsoft and Apple!). But when I did eventually install it, it worked, and continues to work, just fine.
I will be buying this thing (mainly because they are practically giving it away), and if/when it makes sense to use it, I'll probably use it. It's just forum software. I don't have to cast my vote for only one party. This kind of weird, unfocused rage at vB - or the company that owns vB - smacks too much of political partisanship, which is not only boring, but dangerous.
Grover
Well-known member
It is clear to me you have a different experience of reality then I do when it comes to the -in my experience- huge demise of the quality comparing vB3.8 --> vB4.0. Yes, vB4.0 'works'... but don't ask how. For you it's just forum software, and this is fine ofcourse (this also explains your opinion about vB4). Much more people feel that way. But I have high standards: vB3.x provide me with this and I refuse to pay for something that doesn't come close to that kind of quality anymore. vB4 was a big step backwards. IMHO it should have gotten the version number 3.9. And even then, it was a step back into quality. On many levels. So I prefer to call it vBulletin -3. But you are right, I don't use it on my production board. Even not on my test board. But to say that opinions are not relevant in that case (or even weird/unfocused/dangerous) like you do, is something I do not agree with or even want to understand. In fact, I have spend day and night on vBulletin.com after 4.0 'Gold' was released, providing extensive suggestions and bugreports to improve the worryingly flawed product. Just a few weeks ago they started to actually pay attention to almost all my suggestions/bugreports from the end of 2009 and confirmed most of them. I am sorry, but that is 10 months too late. It is very simply: XenForo solves all my UI/UX issues I experience with vBulletin in it's current state. I respect people have a different view of quality or the insight in the importance of UI/UX matters. It is fine when you are a customer. It is NOT fine when you are a forum-company responsible for the market leader product that thousands of your clients are depended on. Still to this day vBulletin 4.x doesn't convince me. Whereas XenForo oozes confidence all over the place. Let's see what Internet Brands can give us with vB4.1 and subsequent releases...
HannahP
Well-known member
That's a long post you made there, but I think you'd have a hard time defining "demise of quality" since quality is subjective. Whether something works is not subjective. It either does or it doesn't.
No, it is just forum software. Unless you've figured out how to make it wash your dishes or give you a manicure.
dutchbb
Well-known member
Obviously it's not that simple with software. It's not a toothbrush or a shoe lace... It is a combination of thousands of features and design aspects, which together make up a UI/UX. To say it either works or it doesn't is an insult to any programmer and web designer out there.
You can't honestly believe vB4 was a worthy successor of the 3.x series. The gold release contained more bugs than Windows ME so to speak. There was no innovation, it was vB3.8 in a new jacket, a jacket with a lot of holes in it, and for some not even a pretty one. The countless number bugs that were removed since gold proves how badly executed the whole thing was, and still you can hardly consider it fully stable or satisfying. Let's be honest, the quality hasn't gone up after 3.8.5. In fact, the only thing that did go up was the price.
Software isn't just software. Like everything, it comes in different quality levels. And even if you say that quality isn't all that important for you, and you just want basic functionality, then why pay a premium? vB isn't exactly cheap, not for what you get it isn't.
Let me ask you a few more questions: why is it that vB.org hasn't upgraded yet? Why is it that a lot of big boards (with commercial backgrounds) haven't done already, one year after gold release? And why is it that we have a hard core of ex-vB members here at XF? Members who once were the biggest fanboys of that software you can imagine? Did they just decide after being loyal to vB for nearly a decade to leave it because of some small problems?
You've made a choice and you're defending it, which is understandable. But is it not time to see what's going on and prepare for the future? Well I guess you are, otherwise you wouldn't be here
Anthony Parsons
Well-known member
I think this forum type integrated with a nice Joomla CMS RocketTheme style... WOW.
anotheralias
Well-known member
I know! I have the same feeling. And I really loved vB3 - up until a few weeks ago.
Now I look at it and it feels so ... over.
Booth
Well-known member
(until first week in October)
HannahP
Well-known member
Well, partly for the same reason there was a long delay for a lot of people upgrading from 2.x to 3.x; because the layout has to be done over from scratch, and the new style system is a tremendous pain in the ass.
That's what I heard from people holding back on the upgrade, anyway. The cost to benefit ratio of upgrading isn't there. As far as most of the forum admins I know are concerned, all you're getting in the forum upgrade is a Facebook linkup, "seo-friendly" URLs and the ability to embed video in posts. And gaining those things isn't worth the pain of dealing with a new style system from scratch.
Oh please, dry your eyes and put away your handkerchief, Mary. Programming is very much an either/or proposition. When I do this, does it do that? Yes or no.
Design is another question, but 99.99% of "web design" is awful, so most "web designers" should be insulted. Anyway, we aren't talking about an artist's web site, we're talking about forums, which are tools meant to do one thing. Like a monkey wrench or a Molotov cocktail.
HannahP
Well-known member
I am not a "fan" of vB 4 or monkey wrenches or Molotov cocktails. In real-world everyday use I just don't see the vB 4 horrors that many others seem to. That's my only point in any of this. Do I think it's neat that there are over 2,000 files in the forum-only upload? No, I don't think that's very neat at all. You might say there's room for improvement there. But I can't honestly say that it's slower than 3.8 or that something that we use doesn't work.
Well you quoted a comment about programming and I think you're applying it to UI.
If a user clicks a button and it spawns a new window, how that window is spawned is only relevant if one method takes 5 seconds and one takes 0.5 seconds. If the performance is otherwise roughly equal, the methods involved are only of interest to other programmers. Or if one of them breaks your server.
I know, I know, if WordPress has taught us anything it is that Code is Poetry, right? But they are a bunch of hippies over there. Code is logic, and logic is not subjective here on earth.
If we're talking about UI or programming as it relates to execution speed (and as that relates to user experience), then I vehemently agree with you, programming is a critical factor.
See what I did there?
I don't believe it is possible to discuss software used by people without the UI being a fundamental constituent of the application.
It's also extremely simplistic to talk about software in terms of clicking a button and a window pops up. Perhaps forum software was like that once, but there is sufficient distinction between the various competing applications out there now that it's missing the point to say that they all allow users to post messages and therefore they are the same.
My 'how' was not referring to speed of execution or the underlying application code. Most people quite rightly couldn't give a monkey's about such irrelevancies.
It's also extremely simplistic to talk about software in terms of clicking a button and a window pops up. Perhaps forum software was like that once, but there is sufficient distinction between the various competing applications out there now that it's missing the point to say that they all allow users to post messages and therefore they are the same.
My 'how' was not referring to speed of execution or the underlying application code. Most people quite rightly couldn't give a monkey's about such irrelevancies.
Jethro
Well-known member
+1 The major benefit to Xen I'm picking up on from our intended audience is the ease of use and how simple it all is (which to me is a good indicator of quality software, i.e easy to use a complex beast). Wish I had a $1 for ever question I got on how to use features on my current software, I would be able to buy a supermarket or something.
Well quite.
I can make posts on my phpBB forum just as easily as I can on here.
But here it's just a much better experience due to the way the post is inserted into the thread without the page reloading.
The destination is the same but the journey is so much more interesting.
HannahP
Well-known member
Okay. I wouldn't argue against "the UI being a fundamental constituent." But they call it underlying code for a reason.
Yes it is. It was an example for a general audience. I'm one of those nuts who believes that when you're selling refrigerators to people, explaining the details of refrigeration technology just gets in the way.
But I appreciate your input. I'll take it under advisement, consult with my team and get back to you. We're still on for dinner Friday night in Nashville, right? Willie Nelson is going to be there and he has a bone to pick with you. I think he wants the money from that bet you lost. Please give my best to Mr. Blobby. Whatever happened to that guy?
anotheralias
Well-known member
Oh sooooo so true! And not all of them ask - some of them just give up and go away.
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