Developer access to Alpha Testing XenForo 2.0

[Mike]

I should just note that it will be some time before any sort of preview build would be available (I have no time frames to give at this point). Not to explicitly say "it's too early", but just to put things in perspective.

 

[The Sandman]

We wouldn't have the time nor staff available to audit code.

Well, what it really boils down to is, there is a very large development/design aftermarket for XenForo which is completely unvetted in any official sense. This is unfortunate considering how much the end-users have relied on third party add-ons while XenForo has been developing its featureset. An official or quasi-official vetting process would have been nice though I can see it probably wasn't logistically feasible.

So, the end-users have been left to their own devices when it comes to vetting third party additions to core XenForo. That being the case, existing end-user input should be the deciding factor in determining which developers/designers are allowed early access to the new version, while XenForo management should determine the terms of such early release.

 

[Paul B]

End users are the least qualified to make such a decision.

Many of them use add-ons which are poorly developed yet rate them highly, simply because they know no better.

 

[Steve F]

I should just note that it will be some time before any sort of preview build would be available (I have no time frames to give at this point). Not to explicitly say "it's too early", but just to put things in perspective.

Right, gives us plenty of time to hash this out then

I added a few developers to the list (So they don't feel left out! )

@Bob B
@Syndol
@sonnb
@tenants

 

[The Sandman]

End users are the least qualified to make such a decision.

Then by all means, have the more qualified people make the decision.

 

[Kintaro]

End users are the least qualified to make such a decision.

Many of them use add-ons which are poorly developed yet rate them highly, simply because they know no better.

True

Maybe there's no need to access alpha but can help devs having a longer and earlier beta stage, with in addition some documentation from xf devs of the changes and new "dev features".

 

[Liam W]

Just thinking aloud, here.

Some companies use it as a revenue stream. e.g. Apple

But, of course, I don't think really it is seen as any big source of income for Apple. What it does do, though, is filter out those people who want to be part of it, just because they want to be part of it.

£100 isn't a lot of money. Yet, despite always wanting to be involved in beta testing things like OS X and iOS builds, I would never pay it. But, if it was access to a XenForo development programme then I absolutely would. Possibly even more than £100.

£100 is a lot of money.

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I'm going to add something to this discussion, just because I can...

I have several addons released, and a few custom ones as well (including a fairly big one that will break very quickly). Having early access to 2.0 would help greatly in getting these addons updated for 2.0.

The issue being, I'm always sidelined when it comes to early access, due to age limits. NDA's are out the window, due to the fact that contract law doesn't apply to under 18's (although a parent can sign to get around this).

And then there's the fact that if there was to be a charge, what about those that can't afford it but could really do with having early access? Like I said above, £100 is a lot of money to me. I rarely see that...

Then of course there's the fact that choosing people is bad, because those that haven't been chosen will cry unfairness and favouritism (unless their chosen), and those that are chosen may then think their special and have more say in things - believe me, it'll probably happen.

I just don't know how something like this could be applied fairly. It could probably work, but there would have to be no payment, some chosen developers (based on fair criteria) and of course the ability for others to apply. And if an NDA was involved, a parent should be able to sign for under 18's...

Anyhow, if this made any sense then thank the deity for that...

Liam

 

[Steve F]

I really don't see much of a problem allowing say 25 Developers/Designers access to a build when it nears beta. I only see it helping development move forward at a good rate at that point. (which I'm sure it will whether this flies or not).

25 Seems like a pretty good estimate to the important add-on developers and the few designers we have.

 

[Paul B]

Again, you can't just pick an arbitrary number as it would be unfair on those who weren't included.

 

[cclaerhout]

Downloads are no guarantee of anything, especially when it comes to free resources.

Why "especially" ? A paid resource can also be poorly coded and a free resource can be coded as well as a paid resource...

Back to the topic, XenForo developers have always let their beta versions a long time so other developers can adapt their addons. So there's no big deal here.

 

[Jeremy]

End all be all solution: Give it to staff first, then developers and designers... with the rest of the customers with the release of beta 1.

 

[Paul B]

Because x downloads is no guarantee of how good an add-on is, nor how many times it has been installed or is in use.

Any licensed customer can download free add-ons.

For paid add-ons there is no download count.

 

[Martok]

Maybe no-one should get any special privileges and everyone gets access when the first Beta is out? We then just accept that in the early days of 2.0 it'll be a while before the major add-ons are working.

It's not as if 1.x will be redundant.

 

[Daniel Hood]

The issue being, I'm always sidelined when it comes to early access, due to age limits. NDA's are out the window, due to the fact that contract law doesn't apply to under 18's (although a parent can sign to get around this).

Not really the company's problem. If you're unable to legally agree to any legal terms, you just don't get to participate. Not just for this, but for a lot of things.

And then there's the fact that if there was to be a charge, what about those that can't afford it but could really do with having early access? Like I said above, £100 is a lot of money to me. I rarely see that...

I don't like the idea of charging for it, but the same answer to the first point applies.

Then of course there's the fact that choosing people is bad

I agree, and this where the applicaton process comes about. Instead of expecting people to arbitrarily be chosen, make everyone fill out an application. If XenForo representatives agree, then go for it, if they don't, sit out and wait.

I really don't understand the concept of "it has to be everybody or nobody", sometimes, not everyone gets picked. That's just how it is. Sometimes you're not elgible, that's how it is. I'm not speaking specifically to you Liam. I'm speaking in general. If people don't meet age requirements, or can't afford to buy something, then that unfoturnetely means they can't do it. An NDA would definetely be a requirement so if someone can't make that work due to age, country, or some other reason, then they have to accept that.

 

[Paul B]

We then just accept that in the early days of 2.0 it'll be a while before the major add-ons are working.

It's not as if 1.x will be redundant.

If anyone is reliant on add-ons for their site then they will require all add-ons to be updated for 2.0, before they can upgrade.

So giving advance access to x or y developer/designer may not be any help at all in a lot of cases.

 

[Daniel Hood]

So giving advance access to x or y developer/designer may not be any help at all in a lot of cases.

It might not help 100%, but it definetely increases the likelihood.

 

[John L.]

End all be all solution: Give it to staff first, then developers and designers... with the rest of the customers with the release of beta 1.

Where is the dislike button?

25 Seems like a pretty good estimate to the important add-on developers and the few designers we have.

Who do you deem important? How do you deem important? I agree with a limit from a management standpoint (of the people that is), but that classification of "important" seems silly.

 

[Jeremy]

Where is the dislike button?

Its disguised as the "Like" button in 1.4.

 

[Steve F]

Where is the dislike button?

Who do you deem important? How do you deem important? I agree with a limit from a management standpoint (of the people that is), but that classification of "important" seems silly.

Bad wording on my part. Any add-on can be important to some and not others, my apologies.

 

[Martok]

If anyone is reliant on add-ons for their site then they will require all add-ons to be updated for 2.0, before they can upgrade.

So giving advance access to x or y developer/designer may not be any help at all in a lot of cases.

Indeed. Even giving all add-on developers early access doesn't mean that they will sort out their add-ons in time for a 2.0 final release.

The other thing that authors of paid add-ons may do is charge again for 2.0 releases, especially if they have to be completely rewritten. I've no problem paying again but some users might. This is something that everyone needs to consider in the rush to move their sites and add-ons to 2.0.