Dedicated server questions, need input please

[twhiting9275]

I disagree.
The only time she needs to ssh her server is when updating or adding a module.
on the contrary setting up the IP Table and the firewall is done via the command line. I'm not aware if Cpanel can do that.

I'm not sure of Cpanel can give you the "understanding" about your server !
Plus CPanel comes with the price of having to put up with Apache ... waisting a loooot of resources

I entirely disagree. My sites have been running off the same server for 8 years. In that time the only things I have done is every now and then (actually the time between them is so far apart I cant even tell you) is to update php and mysql. I last logged in via SSH / Plesk.... 2 months ago.. maybe? Yet it still runs lightening fast. Automated backups of the entire server to a secure repository, everything else goes on its own.

If you're relying on your control panel for updates and management, there's a problem. If you're relying on automation to handle backups and NOT checking up on them, there's a problem. That is not 'server management', that is wishful thinking. Hope and pray your server never needs serious management.

I don't know what people do to require this "minimum 1-2 hours a week" but in all honesty, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you're not logging into your server 1-2 hours a week, there's a problem, and it's NOT being properly managed. Proper administration involves logging in to check backups, make sure everything is up to date, make sure there are no server (hardware) problems, make sure there are no network problems, make sure there are no software problems, make sure there are no issues in general. Then you have to deal with complaints about inaccessibility, clients needing something installed, debug errors, figure out why X service isn't running, view hard drive usage. Like I said, it's a 1-2 hour a week (at a minimum) job. THAT'S not even counting the updates that need to be done.

having an unmanaged server means that you will not have CPanel installed that's all.

AGAIN with the misinformation.
CPanel/Plesk/insertcontrolpanelhere have NOTHING to do with server management, or whether a server is 'unmanaged'. This simply means they have no control panel. Some prefer that, some do not.

This is one of the major reasons getting help online when it comes to this kind of stuff is inadvisable. You're going to get more misinformation than you will true information, and more people will try to sell you their own product than solve your problem and understand what you need. Good luck with your search for a server

 

[mlx]

So you guys seriously suggest an unmanaged plain Linux server without server control panel for someone who probably has zero Linux experience? (really no offense boatswife)

Maybe it's just me, but that's usually the combination of bad advice and no server management whatsoever how those "my forum got hacked" threads begin with ...

 

[Blandt]

EDIT: what Blandt is suggestion you is something that you shouldn't care about at this time. Probably when your site gets bigger yes, but right now just don't follow his recommendations. I'm not saying that he's wrong but what he's suggesting you isn't for you.

for an average of 100 members at any given time and a peak of 150 1 GB is required (to run vB comfortably)
my suggestion of having a second VPS for MySQL is for security reason not performance

 

[random]

So you guys seriously suggest an unmanaged plain Linux server without server control panel for someone who probably has zero Linux experience? (really no offense boatswife)

Maybe it's just me, but that's usually the combination of bad advice and no server management whatsoever how those "my forum got hacked" threads begin with ...

Exactly, that's why I suggested she this.

Talking about nginx, no-cpanel, unmanaged servers, two servers (one for MySQL and another one for Apache) in this thread is a bit crazy.

 

[Blandt]

So you guys seriously suggest an unmanaged plain Linux server without server control panel for someone who probably has zero Linux experience? (really no offense boatswife)

Maybe it's just me, but that's usually the combination of bad advice and no server management whatsoever how those "my forum got hacked" threads begin with ...

If your site gets hacked no managed plan will help you ... Cpanel will not help you a network administrator will though :d

 

[random]

If your site gets hacked no managed plan will help you ... a network administrator will though :d

Sysadmins and network administrators work for providers with managed plans. They are usually Level 3 technicians.

Again, you're talking about something that she doesn't need.

 

[Blandt]

Exactly, that's why I suggested she this.

Talking about nginx, no-cpanel, unmanaged servers, two servers (one for MySQL and another one for Apache) in this thread is a bit crazy.

This is what I do for living jscieza.

 

[random]

I'm not saying that you're crazy and please accept my apologies if it looks like I said it.
What I'm saying is that you're talking about something that she doesn't need.

 

[Slavik]

1) If you're relying on your control panel for updates and management, there's a problem. 2) If you're relying on automation to handle backups and NOT checking up on them, there's a problem. 3) That is not 'server management', that is wishful thinking. Hope and pray your server never needs serious management.

1) All my updates are done through SSH
2) I do check up on them, when the dvd/blu-ray disk comes through my postbox every month. After 8 years they still all come fine.
3) I don't get this, seriously? Is it that hard to believe that by not tinkering, by not doing every single upgrade the day it comes out, but by leaving it in a working, stable condition, that it will stay that way?

1) If you're not logging into your server 1-2 hours a week, there's a problem, and it's NOT being properly managed. 2) Proper administration involves logging in to check backups, 3) make sure everything is up to date, 4) make sure there are no server (hardware) problems, 5) make sure there are no network problems, 6) make sure there are no software problems, 7) make sure there are no issues in general. 8) Then you have to deal with complaints about inaccessibility, 9) clients needing something installed, 10) debug errors, 11) figure out why X service isn't running, 12) view hard drive usage. 13) Like I said, it's a 1-2 hour a week (at a minimum) job. 14) THAT'S not even counting the updates that need to be done.

1) Maybe not, but its been working for 8 years
2) See point 2 in previous quote
3) Day-to-day updates are not required unless they are security flaws.
4) Taken care of by the data center
5) Taken care of by the data center
6) By keeping a clean OS with minimum services running, not forcing updates just because you might get 0.01% better loadtimes they should not arise.
7) Point 6
8) Point 6
9) I am my only client for my server
10) Point 6
11) Point 6
12) Unless you have a massive amount of media, on a modern server most people won't even get close to a full hard drive
13) I disagree, again.
14) Point 3.

In all honesty I think your just scaremongering.

 

[mlx]

The idea of having a managed server is to have a reliable admin taking care of your server isn't it?

So yeah, there might be companies who don't take this management part serious enough, but there are companies and freelancing server admins to hire who do, and that actually does help you not getting hacked. Or at least not getting hacked by script kiddie I guess.

I'm sorry that this is getting so off topic now. But I think it's really worrying when people with lots of Linux experience are suggesting the same thing they would get for themselves to people who have no such experience.

 

[Paul M]

A true server management professional will spend a minimum of 1-2 hours a week in the servers they manage, and that's on a very, very slow week.

Doing what exactly ?

My servers dont normally require that per month, and when I do "manage" them, its mostly to check if any upgrades are waiting (yum is your chum !).

Other than that, they are left in peace to do their job.

 

[Slavik]

I'm not saying that you're crazy and please accept my apologies if it looks like I said it.
What I'm saying is that you're talking about something that she doesn't need.

I see what your saying, but if your going dedi / vps, running a linux server for a forum is not that hard is it realy, if you get someone else to set it up right (now i think offloading is too much for this case) but just the basic centos install with apache (yes i know, but it is user friendly), plesk 9, zend, up-to-date mysql and php, disable un-needed services and that should be fine.

Any day-to-day stuff (new db, mail accounts ect) can be done through plesk, and for the most part thats it. Hardware and connectivty should be monitored by any respectable host, and if any(unlikely) problems arise, someone here can fix it, usually for next to nothing.

 

[Blandt]

The idea of having a managed server is to have a reliable admin taking care of your server isn't it?

So yeah, there might be companies who don't take this management part serious enough, but there are companies and freelancing server admins to hire who do, and that actually does help you not getting hacked. Or at least not getting hacked by script kiddie I guess.

I'm sorry that this is getting so off topic now. But I think it's really worrying when people with lots of Linux experience are suggesting the same thing they would get for themselves to people who have no such experience.

Truth is Linux is "moving" away from the scary area Ubuntu made it so ... nowadays you don't need to compile a single thing. one command do the trick. sort of plug n' play

Don't be afraid .. it's not that complicated ... once the site is up and running there is no need for her to even ssh anything for at least a year.

And yes I would recommend to her what I would do if I were her

 

[twhiting9275]

In all honesty I think your just scaremongering.

I'm going to be nice and not respond to the attack in kind. You don't know me one bit, though, nor do you know what I do for a living, or my dedication to the job I do. Scaremongering? No, try telling the truth.

I'm sorry that this is getting so off topic now.

Which is one of the reasons I'm leaving the topic, because I actually do want to see the person get what she's looking for here. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen in this thread, but we'll see.

I think it's really worrying when people with lots of Linux experience are suggesting the same thing they would get for themselves to people who have no such experience.

Absolutely. Nobody with zero server/admin experience should just jump out there and get an 'unmanaged' server without some sort of external management plan.

 

[Slavik]

Doing what exactly ?

My servers dont normally require that per month, and when I do "manage" them, its mostly to check if any upgrades are waiting (yum is your chum !).

Other than that, they are left in peace to do their job.

Thankyou. Someone who agrees with me.

 

[Paul M]

I'm going to be nice and not respond to the attack in kind. You don't know me one bit, though, nor do you know what I do for a living, or my dedication to the job I do. Scaremongering? No, try telling the truth.

I looked after servers, for a living, for roughly 11 years. The numbers varied quite a bit over the years, but was 200+ at one point. The only ones that ever needed more than 2 hours per week were a set of 6 that ran Windows 95 (yes, they were acting as servers !).

If every server needed that amount of time, we'd have been working 7 days a week, 10 hours a day (four of us) - and no time for anything else.

Scaremongering? No, probably not. Telling the truth? No, not that either.

You sound like a server admin trying to justify their existance to management.

 

[boatswife]

Please don't let me be the one that started a crappy thread at XenForo! I just had a bowl of chocolate ice cream and I'm feeling pretty good right now! LOL

There is no way that I'm going "unmanaged", no matter how much "managing" a host provider gives. I'll look into someone making sure my interests are being taken care of as a next step.

That set aside........ is there anything at WiredTree or somewhere else reputable (that's managed) that looks better than what I have for less money.

Thanks for everyone's input. I may not be understanding everything, but I am reading the posts.

 

[Slavik]

No, try telling the truth.

The truth is 6 years ago I purchased my own unmanaged dedicated server, set it up and transfered all of my sites to it with not 1 ounce of linux knowledge
3 years ago I upgraded my server to centos5

In those years the only updates / installs I have done were through the yum repository.

In those years, not once have my sites been offline. Not once has my server lagged or given me slow loading times. In those years I have not had a technical problem that required more than a 5 second google search to find out I was typing the wrong command in. I dont use any of the inbuilt text editors like nano or the likes. I do it through winscp.

You tell me? what have I had, a 6+ year run of good luck?

 

[Slavik]

Please don't let me be the one that started a crappy thread at XenForo! I just had a bowl of chocolate ice cream and I'm feeling pretty good right now! LOL

There is no way that I'm going "unmanaged", no matter how much "managing" a host provider gives. I'll look into someone making sure my interests are being taken care of as a next step.

That set aside........ is there anything at WiredTree or somewhere else reputable (that's managed) that looks better than what I have for less money.

Thanks for everyone's input. I may not be understanding everything, but I am reading the posts.

Sorry for going offtopic!

I would look at 1and1.co.uk, something like.

https://order.1and1.co.uk/xml/order...ix155b?__frame=_top&__lf=Static&ordernow=true

And choose "website" as the Operating System. This is basically a managed server and everything you need to do can be done through a web interface.

• Server for beginners who have high requirements
• Pre-configured and ready to run
• We do the management, administration and maintenance
• You don't need to worry about anything
• Ideal for annyone who does not want to do the administration themselves
• Use the 1&1 Control Panel for all configuration

 

[Blandt]

You sound like a server admin trying to justify their existance to management.

hahaha that would be me hahahaha Ubuntu is killing us