California Case Update

Status
Not open for further replies.
The fact remains it's a matter between XenForo Limited, and vBulletin Solutions Inc.

In my personal opinion, be it legally right or wrong (couldn't give a f* tbh), no judge has ruled that what XenForo Limited is doing is illegal, and my personal assertion based on seeing the source code is that it's original work. That's where my $140 went to. It has nothing to do with me, or any other customer - we act in good faith.

I am very happy to see that some people know more about the law than others and share the info they know and back it up with online information. I do really appreciate that a lot. I just think everybody shouting from every direction (including me in this post, clearly) adds nothing real to the conversation - but it does clearly show the frustration of how ridiculous these claims are and how everybody (XenForo AND vBulletin customers) wish this was over sooner than later, and therefor expresses themselves about it. We just want to run a great forum product on our web site to communicate with our visitors.

It's frustrating to say the least that this suit has such serious claims (even if they have no merit) and that at least one person in this world has to waste their time and gray hairs over it.

Thanks Shamil for posting the PACER information. It gives customers a bit of an insight in the matter and adds weight to feeling confident (or not) with the decision to stay with vBulletin, go with XenForo or any other player on the market.

Glancing over these documents makes me feel sick enough already. I don't even want to read or fully understand them. I can't imagine being involved. I can't even start to imagine what this does to the families involved. It's this black and white to me: The party as a corporation can win or loose - either way everybody from employee to CEO remains in position and gets paid their salary regardless, vs the party who their actual livelihood is directly affected.

Regardless what a judge eventually correctly or incorrectly rules on: everybody their time got wasted already.

So f#ck all of this sh#t
 
TheLaw said:
Perhaps it's about time that more parties became actively involved in putting an end to this farce. I haven't spoken up much lately about this case as I have been insanely busy but I find this personally offensive because it is now personal, thanks to vBSI.
Click to expand...

I often wondered and hoped someone would start a PR campaign highlighting the rubbish that IB are spewing in this filing, I would fully support and help such an effort, as I'm sure many here would do.
 
Obviously I'm in the same situation as DigitalPoint and many others. I bought a vB4 licence so the issue of "non renewal" isn't applicable, as I renewed in the presale and there has been no requirement to renew since.
Click to expand...

You can't be forced to renew anything, it's your money and your choice if you renew your vBulletin license or not. This is ridiculous really, as individuals it's got nothing to do with IB how we choose to spend our money, be it renewing vBulletin, buying XenForo new, even buying a Teddy Bear instead of vBulletin.

What they going to do, sue Toys R Us because I went out and spent my vBulletin renewal money on a 40ft Teddy Bear?

I highly doubt I'll be buying a vB5 licence. They might suddenly come up with something amazing, who knows, that might make me consider it. But frankly they are not a company I wish to do business with so it'd have to be *so* impressive.....no, it wouldn't be possible.
Click to expand...

Unless vBulletin 5 is complete rewrite, you might as well forget it. If they are just going to continue rewriting vBulletin 4 (based on old vBulletin 3), calling it vBulletin 5. They've no chance and are already onto a loser before it's even out the gate!
 
Mark.B said:
I warned some time ago that vBSi would start coming after individual customers and I was ridiculed. Whilst they haven't started doing that yet, this latest news is quite obviously another step in that direction.
Click to expand...
It comes down to people not thinking, or believing, that such a thing would actually happen because it's just that nonsensical... at least to us.

However, looking at how it went from going after XenForo, to going after ex- and current employees, and now looking at how they're upset people aren't renewing by their own action, I don't think anyone is going to argue that such an event is impossible now. We should start a Bingo game with whatever they might do next.

In the end, we may need to arm ourselves with lots of tinfoil from here on out. Whatever they have might be contagious!
hat-tin-foil-smiley.gif
 
VB have zero chance of going after any individual for changing products. There is no such precedence that you must buy a specific product from a specific manufacturer... if such existed, near every company that sends sales people from door to door at companies would all be in court and sued, for being persuaded to change products from what they use to what is now being offered. There is in fact precedence against VB statements and that such acts are illegal and against free trade and business prospects. Just look at what Microsoft went through with IE, Google, Apple, etc, have gone through by locking users in to much. They all lost and had to loosen the reigns on trying to lock users into their products specifically without the ability for the consumer to choose what they wanted to use due to fair market competition.

Nobody has to worry IMHO... no such law exists. XF have fair right to be competitive, and if that means they went door knocking on every VB client offering them what they believe a better commercial alternative, then they have that right to do so.

This is complete nonsense and not even worthy of further discussion to be perfectly honest. Its nothing more than what this entire thing has been about all along... dragging out funds through legal proceedings in an attempt to break the new startup. It has never been anything other than that. Everything and anything, legal or not, they will try and throw at XF in order to respond, which costs $$$.

The more VB prove this via their stupidity in requests and claims, the stronger XF's case to have this closed down on unlawful grounds.
 
I said it before; they seem to do business very much like M$, and we know how they got served by the law.
 
Anthony Parsons said:
VB have zero chance of going after any individual for changing products.
Click to expand...
IB is claiming that they need the XF customer list at this stage to show causation and damages to vBulletin due to Xenforo's existence. But for Xenforo's wrongful existence, VB customers would be renewing their annual maintenance fees for a vBulletin version that no longer exists. If Mr. Burns can prove that XF is an infringement of IB's copyright in this case, he will go after XF customers for willful infringement, especially after that notice posted on vB.com.

I doubt that the court will require that that the customer list be turned over. Not only would that cause irreversible damage in the event IB loses but the fact is that there are numerous people admitting they own copies of both products and willing to be deposed. Would IB actually depose anyone if they were granted the rights to this absurd fishing expedition? Chances are greater that IB is seeking to add a new section to Lawrence's customer database entitled "XF Customers With No VB License".

If IB wants the customers' opinion so badly, then perhaps it's about time the court heard from the customers who aren't parties to the case.
 
People like myself never purchased an XenForo license right away anyway, XenForo was 12 months old before I finally did purchase, which was only about a month ago. In the 12 months before that I didn't use vBulletin, even though I own a license and can download the latest version, I used MyBB instead for free as a live site in preference to it.
 
mrGTB said:
People like myself never purchased an XenForo license right away anyway, XenForo was 12 months old before I finally did purchase, which was only about a month ago. In the 12 months before that I didn't use vBulletin, even though I own a license and can download the latest version, I used MyBB instead for free as a live site in preference to it.
Click to expand...
I only purchased a XenForo license in the second half of this year after having all the optional extras $'s. Right up until I made the purchase I was fairly confident that vBulletin was the right choice for my community. You can (if you search) find many posts by me denouncing many nay-sayers particularly by TheLaw and Co.

You know what, it wasn't bad PR or off responses by support staff that made me switch. I finally realised that I was sick of having to fix everything after every so called "upgrade". I switched because I couldn't afford the effort I was putting into maintaining the product on my site.
 
TheLaw said:
IB is claiming that they need the XF customer list at this stage to show causation and damages to vBulletin due to Xenforo's existence. But for Xenforo's wrongful existence, VB customers would be renewing their annual maintenance fees for a vBulletin version that no longer exists. If Mr. Burns can prove that XF is an infringement of IB's copyright in this case, he will go after XF customers for willful infringement, especially after that notice posted on vB.com.

I doubt that the court will require that that the customer list be turned over. Not only would that cause irreversible damage in the event IB loses but the fact is that there are numerous people admitting they own copies of both products and willing to be deposed. Would IB actually depose anyone if they were granted the rights to this absurd fishing expedition? Chances are greater that IB is seeking to add a new section to Lawrence's customer database entitled "XF Customers With No VB License".

If IB wants the customers' opinion so badly, then perhaps it's about time the court heard from the customers who aren't parties to the case.
Click to expand...

I dropped vB like a hot potato when they released the mess they named vBulletin 4. It was awful.
heh Maybe I should sue THEM for loss of income, because I couldn't design for that disaster they called forum software? I sold my design business because of that piece of junk.

SO, depose me. PLEASE, I want to be called. In fact, I dare them to call me. (y)
Am I bluffing? Not one iota.
 
TheLaw said:
Interesting note regarding the highlighted text provided by dieketzer. I looked at the SAC (Second Amended Complaint) and noticed that vBSI/IB seems to be claiming that the annual maintenance agreements "constitute one year renewable contracts." vBSI argues that they would have enjoyed the benefits of numerous ongoing renewals but for the presence of Xenforo. Hmmm.... Last I recall, vBSI put an end to renewable licenses with vBulletin 4 back in 2009, more than 6 months prior to the appearance of XenForo.
Click to expand...

This is correct, the other admin (MoS) who co-ran my site with me at the time was about to take out a leased licence for 3.x in 2009. He got a leased licence weeks before they withdrew them. Come renewal time in 2010 I then had to stump up for a 4.x licence, which would cover the 3.x installation, even though I've never used 4.x on a live site..
 
That was the same here for me, I ended-up later having to fork up money again to download the latest version of vB3 I didn't have access to download, along with it giving me access of course to download vB4 at the same time. I really don't get some of the stuff IB keep throwing up here.

But here is my gripe against all this IB are saying. I'm banned from the vBulletin.com forum (my choice, I asked to be banned by request). Which Steve Machol did the very next day. Now here's the thing I can argue about with IB. I was banned from vBulletin.com (not vBulletin.org, which they've always said has nothing to do with the .com site). Yet, I cannot gain access now to download mods from the vBulletin.org site if I use vBulletin 4.

They are refusing me access to download mods in my eyes illegally (from vBulletin.org). Something I never requested be done as paid customer, I only asked to be banned from the .com forums only. Keep in mind I can download vBulletin software from the main homepage and use it no problem, latest version and all. But if I wanted to download StopForumSpam add-on for it from vBulletin.org I'm totally screwed.

So my argument would be this. Internet Brands are now stopping me from using the forum software I paid them to use, because it's impossible to run a vBulletin forum without using that StopForumSpam add-on. They banned me from their vBulletin.org sister site running from a totally different domain, one which I did not request I be banned from. Hence, they are at fault for me not using their forum software anymore.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom