California Case Update

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GeeksChat said:
I moved away from vBulletin because I was disappointed with the 4.0 product I had purchased a license for in the pre-sale (circa. Oct/Nov 2009).

I move the Invision Power Services IP.Board. This was before I'd even learned about XF and at the same time I was moving away (April 2010) lots of other people were too (there is printable evidence in the IPS forums to indicate this as well).

So ... I'd be quite happy to testify on behalf of XF to demonstrate that it wasn't XF that turned me away from the vBulletin software platform, rather it was the actions (or inaction) of VBSI and their poorly constructed, implemented, and bug-filled product which was vB 4.0 (and subsequent poor quality updates).

Cheers,
Shaun :D
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Yes, so is it with me too!
 
Anyone porting modification from another site will get a claim against them? or I am reading this wrong.... They want customer info to trace those start porting or request such porting. I see they want to stop the flow of modification, as they outright own every template edits, Images and addons.

They have a screen shot of a non-customer request to port over modification over to XenForo (I smell a PLANT) or desperate corp. crying, as they see the future of vBsi.... (empty house).

Why would they posting how bad vB 4 is currently? I wonder if they are going to blame Kier and Mike for the release of bug ridden vB 4 (1000+), 4.01,... 4.1.3...

If you do not know all the information, then it all speculation.... (all these docs should be placed on the first page of this thread.)

GeeksChat said:
I moved away from vBulletin because I was disappointed with the 4.0 product I had purchased a license for in the pre-sale (circa. Oct/Nov 2009).

I move the Invision Power Services IP.Board. This was before I'd even learned about XF and at the same time I was moving away (April 2010) lots of other people were too (there is printable evidence in the IPS forums to indicate this as well).

So ... I'd be quite happy to testify on behalf of XF to demonstrate that it wasn't XF that turned me away from the vBulletin software platform, rather it was the actions (or inaction) of VBSI and their poorly constructed, implemented, and bug-filled product which was vB 4.0 (and subsequent poor quality updates).

Cheers,
Shaun :D
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I was heading toward expressionengine (E) and or back to phpbb, as I had no clue of XenForo until just last year. I thought Kier was going back to film/photography and the rest find other jobs in same field.

The first thing was trying to create styles, then notice how difficult it was to get CMS going.
 
GeeksChat said:
I moved away from vBulletin because I was disappointed with the 4.0 product I had purchased a license for in the pre-sale (circa. Oct/Nov 2009).

I move the Invision Power Services IP.Board. This was before I'd even learned about XF and at the same time I was moving away (April 2010) lots of other people were too (there is printable evidence in the IPS forums to indicate this as well).

So ... I'd be quite happy to testify on behalf of XF to demonstrate that it wasn't XF that turned me away from the vBulletin software platform, rather it was the actions (or inaction) of VBSI and their poorly constructed, implemented, and bug-filled product which was vB 4.0 (and subsequent poor quality updates).

Cheers,
Shaun :D
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I will also sign an affidavit to that effect.
 
Yep, it's a real shame that VBSI cannot see that it is ultimately their fault if they are losing customers. If they had an excellent product and brilliant customer service people would stay with them regardless of any other software. I think that people would stay with them even if the product was lagging behind expectations if the customer service and communication was up to scratch because people do not generally want to have to spend money on another piece of software that does the same as one they already pay for.

Sadly VBSI still hasn't figured out that they need to improve their communication and instead of looking at themselves and trying to improve they are lashing out at just one of the many competitors to whom their unhappy customers may choose to move to.
 
So who actually owns the Intellectual Property of a modification?
If it's IB then anyone who has ever charged for a mod or received a donation owes IB $.
 
Its really annoying that they are using conversations here as the backup for their claims. A few members show up in their documents more than others, in the form of a forum/blog post. If they are quoting members directly from the website, will they be called in to write a statement? Can't you discredit certain posts based on the fact that they could have been posted with malicious intent?
 
physicspirate said:
Its really annoying that they are using conversations here as the backup for their claims. A few members show up in their documents more than others, in the form of a forum/blog post. If they are quoting members directly from the website, will they be called in to write a statement? Can't you discredit certain posts based on the fact that they could have been posted with malicious intent?
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I personally think it's good that they are posting such messages. They are selectively picking out messages that backup their claim however this also opens additional angles and vectors for argument. I think it's even better considering that once you produce entire threads and showing that the opinions they are highlighting are biased, as well as limited, it starts making their entire case fall by the wayside even further.
 
SchmitzIT said:
What confuses me is what they hope to achieve with this document? Are they trying to show that people are moving away from vB? If they are so worried about that, all they'd have to do is improve their software. Instead, they keep coming up with useless crap THEY can earn money on, while leaving the people they scammed out of their money waiting for them to get what they paid for.

None of these threads were started by any of the XF Ltd employee. What are they going to do, subpoena everyone whose statements they circled? Heck, they should, so everyone has a chance to explain to the judge what a piece of garbage vB 4.0 is, how respectless IB treats its customers, and how much greener the grass is over here.
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I don't understand their intent with these documents either. Are they really trying to blame the dissatisfaction with vBulletin on XenForo? As Shelley mentioned, we can find countless threads with details of elaborate dissatisfaction with vBulletin long before XenForo was even on the radar.

I'm neither a lawyer nor a judge, but I can only imagine the judge easily detecting IB's desperation upon reading these exhibits.
John said:
Seriously folks, I'm as anti-IB as anyone, but all this talk does no one any good. Our opinions matter not. The only opinion that matters is the judge's and XF has good lawyers to handle all of this. I think everyone would be well advised to back off...all you are doing is adding fuel to the fire.
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Maybe I'm not understanding but what's wrong with discussing the case as it develops and unfolds? How is fuel being added to the fire? Maybe if we were in the courtroom making all of these comments during a hearing it'd be disruptive... but on a forum? I don't understand...
 
Nick, don't waste time trying to figure out the dynamics of this forum, it is not the place to discuss topics, from day one there is a wanna be mod problem where members want to control the conversation, management has done nothing to stop it, in fact they encourage this behavior by deleting posts critical of these facts.

Basically the same thing vB did before they completely destroyed their community.
 
AnthonyCea said:
Nick, don't waste time trying to figure out the dynamics of this forum, it is not the place to discuss topics, from day one there is a wanna be mod problem where members want to control the conversation, management has done nothing to stop it, in fact they encourage this behavior by deleting posts critical of these facts.

Basically the same thing vB did before they completely destroyed their community.
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Yet strangely your the only person who has a problem with this forum and complains about it at every opportunity.

Take a hint.
 
Yes it's certainly turning a bit Monty Python. vB4 was so bad I was well down the road of jumping to IPB before I even noticed XenForo. So the argument that XenForo is in some way responsible for me leaving vB is ludicrous.

I just want to find some good software to replace vB3 and I don't want vB4. I hope this all ends sooner rather than later.
 
GeeksChat said:
So ... I'd be quite happy to testify on behalf of XF to demonstrate that it wasn't XF that turned me away from the vBulletin software platform, rather it was the actions (or inaction) of VBSI and their poorly constructed, implemented, and bug-filled product which was vB 4.0 (and subsequent poor quality updates).

Cheers,
Shaun :D
Click to expand...

Ditto and.....the fact that I, and many others, bought a license and then had to buy into another full license in order to keep up with updates. That alone did it for me.

I wonder if they're going to submit all those threads complaining about how horrible vb 4.0 is, those alone would let any nitwit see why people left searching for other avenues.
 
GeeksChat said:
I moved away from vBulletin because I was disappointed with the 4.0 product I had purchased a license for in the pre-sale (circa. Oct/Nov 2009).
Click to expand...

Ditto. I bought 2 or 3 in the presale. I moved one vB3 forum to vB4 and refuse to do the other one. The last license was bought for a new site, so it serves it purpose, but just barely.

I was so disgusted with the crap experience that I vowed to look for an alternative solution. XenForo is not the reason why I am leaving vB though. IB, it's incompetent coders, its unimaginative managers and its business ethics are why I am leaving vB.
 
Count us in on the deposition that XF had *nothing* to do with our looking for another solution. IB's horrific treatment of their customers; the half-baked, bug ridden and nigh unusable product that they tried to foist off on us as a "stable" product while it remained an EARLY Beta that they refused to load on their own sites... Now THAT had everything to do with us looking for another solution.

vBulletin has been a train wreck in progress for quite some time now, it's got nothing to do with XF and everything to do with management that is incompetent to make design and development decisions overriding the developers AND customers priorities to produce a product that their customers do not want, cannot rely on and frankly, in many cases, cannot use.
 
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