Anyone notice a slow change in license holder support in the forums?

[TPerry]

Specifically in that many "newbie" questions are going unanswered by fellow license holders and staff? Is that indicative of an issue with XenForo and their "slow progress" and a "burnout syndrome" amongst long term license holders?
I know personally... I have no real ongoing desire (unlike in the past) to spend a few hours providing free support for XenForo.. It's enough that I'm forking over monies to them for very little in return for the past several years. Third party developers are bringing WAY more to the party than XenForo has been.
And yes.. I fully expect this will torque a few XF related folks off... but guess what.. to bad... the facts simply are the proof in the pudding. The third party developers have been carrying XenForo for the (easily) last 2 years. Xenforo itself has brought very little to the table for the "regular" admins.. yes, they brought cloud... which is actually simply another revenue stream for them, while it slowed down the development of the script itself, which most are concerned with.

 

[Suzanne O]

As somebody who renewed my xenforo licence yesterday i think you need to calm your farm.
Newbies can ask as many questions they like. It's not up to you to be harsh towards them.
Just keep working on being polite to them instead of losing your at them.

 

[ENF]

Specifically in that many "newbie" questions are going unanswered by fellow license holders and staff? Is that indicative of an issue with XenForo and their "slow progress" and a "burnout syndrome" amongst long term license holders?
I know personally... I have no real ongoing desire (unlike in the past) to spend a few hours providing free support for XenForo.. It's enough that I'm forking over monies to them for very little in return for the past several years. Third party developers are bringing WAY more to the party than XenForo has been.
And yes.. I fully expect this will torque a few XF related folks off... but guess what.. to bad... the facts simply are the proof in the pudding. The third party developers have been carrying XenForo for the (easily) last 2 years. Xenforo itself has brought very little to the table for the "regular" admins.. yes, they brought cloud... which is actually simply another revenue stream for them, while it slowed down the development of the script itself, which most are concerned with.

No.
And those of us with more than one and/or large sites, have businesses to run can't always be around here to answer questions for new folks.
Third-party developers are an added market and provide solutions for functions that are not part of the core XF platform, or providing extensibility for custom functions for different sites (on demand). They don't "carry" XenForo but they do attract people in and it shows an active ecosystem. I'm not concerned about the core XF as a platform. I'd only be concerned if the company folds, which isn't likely to happen... until something new comes (2.3+ or greater) out and we need to spend money to adapt, we've got businesses to run in the meantime.

 

[TPerry]

And those of us with more than one and/or large sites, have businesses to run can't always be around here to answer questions for new folks.

Then you haven't spent much time perusing threads.. I'm finding more and more that request for assistance that are posted and go a day or more without responses.. whereas 2-5 years ago they would get fairly quick responses.
And guess what.. if you have time to read.. you SURELY have time to reply.. but you (as was pointed out in my OP) can't be troubled to do so.
And THAT is very different from what I have observed over the last 5 years.. the license holder interaction on the site has been slowly declining... to the point that there are only a base few who are willing to take the time to respond.
And it's readily apparent that developer interaction has dropped noticeably.
As for the 3rd party developers carrying XF.. care to point out ANY major improvements/additions that XF has provided over the last 2 years that actually benefit the end user of a site? And sorry.. PWA and such doesn't count.. that isn't a "major" improvement and simply an incremental that SHOULD be done as technology moves forward. They have (and have acknowledged the fact) that they depend on 3rd party developers to extend the script beyond a bare bone minimum that they offer.

 

[ENF]

Then you haven't spent much time perusing threads.. I'm finding more and more that request for assistance that are posted and go a day or more without responses.. whereas 2-5 years ago they would get fairly quick responses.
And guess what.. if you have time to read.. you SURELY have time to reply.. but you (as was pointed out in my OP) can't be troubled to do so.
And THAT is very different from what I have observed over the last 5 years.. the license holder interaction on the site has been slowly declining... to the point that there are only a base few who are willing to take the time to respond.

I'm here everyday reading (usually over lunch), but I'm not obligated to reply to queries for help. I did go out of my way recently to spin up some test nodes to trace down some errors for another member and send those details along to the relative developers. But, here I am at 9:50pm on a Saturday night, replying to you. I see people like @digitalpoint handing support for his addons and such, but no, I haven't really inventoried unanswered [forum posted] support requests.

 

[TPerry]

but I'm not obligated to reply to queries for help

Thank you for emphasizing the VERY point I was making.. NOBODY that helps here is obligated to reply to queries for help.. we simply DID.
THAT aspect is what has dropped off from my casual observation. And if you spent a little more time reviewing unanswered requests for help, or noticing the time delay in a response compared to the past, you would realize that. I recently replied to a few comments for assistance that sat with no response for at least 12 hours. Could I resolve their issue.. nope.. but at least they realized they weren't being frigging ignored.

 

[MySiteGuy]

I don't see a lack of support, though I see some people get grumpier and complain more the older they become (and it's not only about XF).

For example, this morning I saw one of them being a jerk to a guy who felt they were in a desperate situation with a host move. This person basically rubbed salt in the wound, then later posted a 'why I won't help' follow-up.

 

[TPerry]

I don't see a lack of support, though I see some people get grumpier and complain more the older they become (and it's not only about XF).

For example, this morning I saw one of them being a jerk to a guy who felt they were in a desperate situation with a host move. This person basically rubbed salt in the wound, then later posted a 'why I won't help' follow-up.

Yep... simple fact is.. there are others that are feeling exactly as I feel.... and it shows on the slow/no responses to help here...
And honestly.. I don't make my monies on helping (or as some would say preying) on those in "emergency" need for financial recompense... for many years I freely provided HOURS of help for no financial compensation (and gotten feedback because I "cheated" certain persons out of a possible route of income)... as I've gotten older I'm less likely to do so as my time on this planet is more limited, and I want to do stuff that benefits me... I've spent enough time helping others.... You keep changing the scenario from a "simple" one to something that may be more complicated... explain exactly WHY I would want to spend a few hours doing free work... when, again, my time on this plane is limited and I could actually be doing stuff that benefits me for a change?
YOU and others are willing usually to do so... as long as you get compensated.
It's also why I will refer folks to those that will do the work for money instead of out of the goodness of their soul... that aspect has been drained from me over the years here and I don't like to encumber others.... and as we all know... money talks... BS walks.

 

[TPerry]

As somebody who renewed my xenforo licence yesterday i think you need to calm your farm.

As somebody that has renewed their license regularly and provided a LOT more assistance than you.. you really don't have a horse in this race.

Newbies can ask as many questions they like. It's not up to you to be harsh towards them.

My point is... those newbies ARE asking frigging questions... and they aren't getting valid replies.. they may get vapid ones (many of which you have a history of providing)... but those that can help them... they are less and less and take longer for them to obtain.

Just keep working on being polite to them instead of losing your at them.

I don't get paid to provide assistance... so any that I offer is on MY terms... and nobody else. If I was getting financially compensated for assistance that would be another matter.. but I have NEVER (in over a decade here) EVER asked for financial compensation for any help I have provided... and in several instances I've devoted over 20 hours of total time into that assistance. How many hours to one person have you provided for free?
I seriously doubt that folks like @MySiteGuy or any of the other "paid" providers would do the same without expecting compensation. Remind us.. if you had to put in 20 hours of work for someone... what would be your fee?
I have no issues with helping folks out even it if takes an hour or two... but when you keep changing the scenario (which is what the situation that @MySiteGuy refers to) I'm not going to jump into that swamp for free... and I don't do "paid" work.... so guess where that leaves one?

 

[Dixie McCall]

Oh great, yet another, “The View” man version thread again.

 

[Lee]

No, I posted a thread the other day which was promptly answered.

 

[Suzanne O]

As somebody that has renewed their license regularly and provided a LOT more assistance than you.. you really don't have a horse in this race.


My point is... those newbies ARE asking frigging questions... and they aren't getting valid replies.. they may get vapid ones (many of which you have a history of providing)... but those that can help them... they are less and less and take longer for them to obtain.


I don't get paid to provide assistance... so any that I offer is on MY terms... and nobody else. If I was getting financially compensated for assistance that would be another matter.. but I have NEVER (in over a decade here) EVER asked for financial compensation for any help I have provided... and in several instances I've devoted over 20 hours of total time into that assistance. How many hours to one person have you provided for free?
I seriously doubt that folks like @MySiteGuy or any of the other "paid" providers would do the same without expecting compensation. Remind us @MySiteGuy... if you had to put in 20 hours of work for someone... what would be your fee?
I have no issues with helping folks out even it if takes an hour or two... but when you keep changing the scenario (which is what the situation that @MySiteGuy refers to) I'm not going to jump into that swamp for free... and I don't do "paid" work.... so guess where that leaves one?

mate, you need to stop ranting all the time. It kind of gets on our nerves.
Remember the threads you created that got you banned for a period of time? You're back to that again.
Maybe @Brogan can deal with someone like you.

 

[MySiteGuy]

Tracy,

Attorneys, mechanics, plumbers, appliance techs, dentists, and many other professions help people in binds all the time. Filling needs, and helping people for a livelihood, is not preying on people.

Unless you've gone through live living on a trust fund, inheritance or welfare, you've traded your experience, knowledge, skills and time for money.

I've never received feedback that I cheated anyone, and my feedback thread is positive. The same of several providers here, who I recommend because I know they will take care of those referred. Helping fulfill needs for add-on/forum/CMS imports/migrations is something I'm proud of, especially those not available elsewhere. It's taken thousands of hours of import code development to get to this point, and that's part of a worthy way to earn a living.

Earning a living, helping people, and volunteering time are not mutually exclusive.

As far as free help is concerned - I lost count of the number of times I've helped with servers, forums, websites and other tech needs without asking for compensation. Every week includes hours answering tech questions via email, uncharged. Free work for non-profits that I've felt drawn to. The occasional case of helping someone in a bind because I know they can't afford it. Or one case last year, I spent many weeks helping a forum recover their hacked server's deleted database, rebuilding damaged tables and files, etc.

Climb off the cross. There was only one Jesus, and you ain't him.

 

[Miri]

I had the fortune of hiring @MySiteGuy for a job, and he charged me only a third of the agreed-upon estimate because he said the work he had done was less than expected. He could have taken all the money as we had agreed, but he chose to be an "honest" person first and foremost.

 

[Miri]

I'll be honest with you, @Tracy Perry. I truly appreciate your responses and the time you invest in answering, but why tarnish your reputation by bringing up your free contributions? If you want to do it, just do it, otherwise, there's no need to, and no one will ask you to. Instead of reminding us of your contribution and saying, "Hey, I helped you."

We all know you're not a cantankerous person, and perhaps it's just the prolonged wait for XF 2.3 that's making you irritable, and you see problems everywhere.

 

[TPerry]

I had the fortune of hiring @MySiteGuy for a job, and he charged me only a third of the agreed-upon estimate because he said the work he had done was less than expected. He could have taken all the money as we had agreed, but he chose to be an "honest" person first and foremost.

A third is well more than zero.... my point is... rarely will someone that does this type stuff for a living going to regularly do 5-20 hours worth of work for free... otherwise they won't be in business. They might do it at a reduced price.... but that is still not "free".
Nnobody is saying he's not a "great guy".... and I regularly refer people to him and a few others here.

We all know you're not a cantankerous person, and perhaps it's just the prolonged wait for XF 2.3 that's making you irritable, and you see problems everywhere

Nope... far from it... but when someone makes a snide comment, they can expect a response back. As for 2.3... my 2.2.X install is running fine. I've purchased add-ons to extend it into areas that it should natively have. What is bothering is the issue in discussion not only is being shown by other license holders, but was seen by XF developers also... they had slowed down responding in here and more of the load was being carried by other license holders (and that's normal, this is a peer->peer support area). But reduced participation is reduced participation.
The fact is.. that user that MySiteGuy referenced kept changing the playing field... I had a feeling that it would probably be a fairly easy thing to fix (and apparently it was), but I was no longer interested in helping as I've dealt with similar situations in the past that ended up being a CF.... and I try to avoid those and withdrew my offer of assistance.

The fact remains... the amount of assistance provided here has dropped noticeably... and what is being provided is being provided by a very limited few, whereas in the past, there were more providing help. It's beginning to look like the IPS support site pre-change. You would regularly see posts for assistance languish over there, and there were only a few people who did reply.

 

[TPerry]

No, I posted a thread the other day which was promptly answered.

And I have also observed the opposite.

 

[Dixie McCall]

 

[Jay™]

Yes my Dear?

 

[TPerry]

Sorry... they refuse to deal with the little people until pitch forks and flaming torches are brought out.