Any news about Xenforo 3.0, can we expect modern forum?

qnkov

qnkov

New member
Hello. For half a year, I have been looking for a modern forum system to start an anime/manga site with various features. For example, a video system for watching movies/episodes, a way to add manga/anime as pages with information about them, topics with posters, etc. I saw that all of this is possible with Invision Community.

I waited to see version 5, but it turned out that the self-hosted platform is extremely expensive and has functionality limits. They also changed the way we acquire add-ons, significantly restricting options, and almost no themes exist for their latest version.

On the other hand, XenForo seems like a better alternative in terms of user base and price, but the forum and themes, in general, look like they’re from the early 2000s. I understand that some may find this nostalgic, but it looks incredibly outdated and is not visually appealing.

That’s why I’m wondering what exactly to expect with version 3.0. Can we anticipate a modern interface similar to Invision Community? I really don't want to go to invision as they may drop self-hosted in next version, as they aim for big comapanies, not common users now.
 
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A good example of discussion that would GREATLY BENEFIT from threaded threads is Addon discussion here.

Random example:
truonglv

Thread 'Post Reply [Paid]'

truonglv submitted a new resource:

[tl] Post Reply - Allow reply in thread in more levels.

Allow reply in thread in more levels.

Options:
  • N/A

Permissions:
  • N/A

Demo:

View attachment 2753
Click to expand...

Read more about this resource...
  • Angry
  • Like

The first post is pure whining, but forever will be the first thing seen when people are visiting the thread. Talk about bad data structure.

In those 5 pages of posts, there are probably some important points. All the key points should appear - ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THE THREAD, and the replies
 
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Digital Doctor said:
Even reddit has better information density.
Reddit threads get BETTER over time.
Click to expand...
Do they though?

I remember reading about how Reddit Threads and Replies can be - and often are - heavily manipulated by both legit and bot upvotes such that early replies & content are nearly always pushed & stay at the top, despite more thorough (or more correct) replies being posted later.
 
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mjda said:
I don't pretend to know anything about SEO, but where did you read that Google prefers threaded data structure for forums? I'd be curious to read that data myself.
Click to expand...
Reddit.
What is just plainly obvious: Reddit vs. Xenforo.

The best replies are visible on the first page load of reddit. The best point is the first text you read.
In Xenforo, whoever replies first wins (posts are displayed in order). People have to manually go through 100s of posts just to find anything.
 
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There is NOT one topic here.
There are 20.
Each of them needs a place on the first page to filter out the key parts. There are 20 discussions in this thread alone. In six months there may be 25 good points. All of which are scattered in a jumbled mess, essentially unfindable, especially when Xenforo's poor search tools are taken into account.

The stupid xenforo discussion containers pretend discussions are just one single topic. It's a travesty of reasonableness. Purely illogical.

Your response to me IS NOT a reply to the thread TOPIC. It should be treated as a COMMENT to my post. A Google searcher coming to this thread will NOT need to see (or want to see) your post out of the context of my post.

If your forum is just chit chat, your forum is dead or 100% will remain a fun niche for you (and not many users). You will be happy with structureless xenforo chit chat threads. If someone wants to have a forum that will actually help inform people with structured data (and your forum members are capable of it) you need structure. Threaded threads is an obvious improvement.

People can be give the choice: Is my reply to the TOPIC (a legit branch of the topic) or to a post (a comment).

Xenforo threads become LESS USEFUL over time. That's a sign you are NOT on the correct path. Who judges ? A new visitor to your thread.

When you buy a new addon and you want to read the discussion on it, you are forced to read 23 pages of nonsense. Ideally the discussion could be divided up into topics. Xenforo puts first commenters as the most important information. It's nonsense.

Xenforo addon discussions are a great example of ... is your discussion data structure useful ? What is seen for Xenforo's own structure is that the discussion content isn't useful and the only thing that makes it bearable is people don't read it.
 
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Digital Doctor said:
Reddit.
What is just plainly obvious: Reddit vs. Xenforo.
Click to expand...
That doesn't seem plainly obvious to me at all, even now that you've pointed it out. What makes you think Google ranks Reddit pages higher because of how the content is structured versus the fact that Reddit simply has a lot more traffic, I assume a lot more backlinks, and more content, than any single forum?

You said it's Google's opinion that data should be structured differently. I'm curious as to what proof you have (anything you've seen, or read) of that to be the case? Otherwise you're just stating your opinion.
 
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@mjda
Just use this thread.

Threads, as seen by new visitors, have to improve in information density over time. Threads need to be more useful as time goes on, AS SEEN BY NEW visitors. When a thread that is 5 years old is visited, they should get more of the information they want quicker and easier than when the thread was started. Threads need to improve over time.

New visitors to this thread have to read 14 pages of text. Google knows they click [BACK] and don't don't read it. The important points in this thread need to be seen on the first page.

Xenforo considers the oldest post the most important - and that's ridiculous.

If you personally write down the 8 best points in this thread ... how many of them appear on the first page when you use this link:

qnkov

Thread 'Any news about Xenforo 3.0, can we expect modern forum?'

Hello. For half a year, I have been looking for a modern forum system to start an anime/manga site with various features. For example, a video system for watching movies/episodes, a way to add manga/anime as pages with information about them, topics with posters, etc. I saw that all of this is possible with Invision Community.

I waited to see version 5, but it turned out that the self-hosted platform is extremely expensive and has functionality limits. They also changed the way we acquire add-ons, significantly restricting options, and almost no themes exist for their latest version.

On...
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Love

what reddit is .... is ordering by vote_score with the replies visible under the best posts. It's not hard.
 
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Digital Doctor said:
@mjda
Just use this thread.

Threads, as seen by new visitors, have to improve in information density over time. Threads need to be more useful as time goes on, AS SEEN BY NEW visitors.

New visitors to this thread have to read 14 pages of text. Google knows they click [BACK] and don't do it. The important points in this thread need to be seen on the first page.

If you personally write down the 8 best points in this thread ... how many of them appear on the first page when you use this link:

qnkov

Thread 'Any news about Xenforo 3.0, can we expect modern forum?'

Hello. For half a year, I have been looking for a modern forum system to start an anime/manga site with various features. For example, a video system for watching movies/episodes, a way to add manga/anime as pages with information about them, topics with posters, etc. I saw that all of this is possible with Invision Community.

I waited to see version 5, but it turned out that the self-hosted platform is extremely expensive and has functionality limits. They also changed the way we acquire add-ons, significantly restricting options, and almost no themes exist for their latest version.

On...
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Love

what reddit is .... is ordering by vote_score with the replies visible under the best posts. It's not hard.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I can understand what you're saying about how the information is delivered to visitors who aren't familiar with forums. I'm only interested, though, in your comment that it was Google's opinion that the data structure should be different. I'm curious what you read, or saw, that led you to that conclusion.
 
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mjda said:
I'm curious what you read, or saw, that led you to that conclusion.
Click to expand...

I don't have any proof. I'm sure others could find some click through data to support it.

It's just mathematical certainty as far as I am concerned.

Take any topic, in any xenforo forum, that is over 10 pages. How do you bring the most important posts to the surface ? It starts with threaded threads.

Xenforo should allow threaded threads for Resources. It would be VASTLY superior.
 
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Digital Doctor said:
Reddit.
What is just plainly obvious: Reddit vs. Xenforo.

The best replies are visible on the first page load of reddit. The best point is the first text you read.
In Xenforo, whoever replies first wins (posts are displayed in order). People have to manually go through 100s of posts just to find anything.
Click to expand...
Again, I'm sure if Google and XenForo came to a $60 million agreement that we'd be seeing XenForo pages at the top of the results.

www.cbsnews.com

Google strikes $60 million deal with Reddit, allowing search giant to train AI models on human posts

Google wants access to Reddit users' "authentic, human conversations" to help train its artificial intelligence tools.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

Google played down its interest in using Reddit data to train its AI systems, instead emphasizing how it will make it "even easier" for users to access Reddit information, such as product recommendations and travel advice, by funneling it through Google products.

It described this process as "more content-forward displays of Reddit information" that aim to benefit both Google's tools and to make it easier for people to participate on Reddit.
Click to expand...
 
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Kevin said:
Again, I'm sure if Google and XenForo came to a $60 million agreement that we'd be seeing XenForo pages at the top of the results.
Click to expand...

Of course this is a major factor.

I only assume, if Xenforo's discussion structure improved that Google would care.
I will say, your members would care, as the threads they help create would be more useful over time.

Without threading, discussion becomes much less useful after page 2, where only the people still replying will ever care.
I think forums want more than that.

Xenforo inc needs to release Threaded threads.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Digital Doctor said:
Even reddit has better information density.
Reddit threads get BETTER insanely hard to follow over time.
Click to expand...
Reddit (or basically any threaded layout) tends to be really painful to follow, at least to me.

I rarely use Reddit, but when I do it's a seemingly endless loop of
  1. Reading
  2. Expanding subtree
  3. Wating for loading
This way reading a thread with a dozen (lets's say 50-100) significantly nested replies takes a lot of time whereas in a linear system like XenForo reading the same amount of posts is a lot faster (and requires a lot less clicks).

It get's even worse if I want to come back to such a thread after some time and read new posts made in the meantime - I might have to expand a dozen nodes of the post tree, in Xenforo I might just have to read one (the last) page.

So to me linear is most often a lot easier / faster than threaded, especially for discussions that are not strictly question -> answers (like on StackOverflow, etc.) - which is probably the reason why almost no forum software uses threaded (any longer).

Threaded works well though for comments and for (technical) question / answer type discussions which usually only get a handful replies.

Just my 0,02 €.
 
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