Any news about Xenforo 3.0, can we expect modern forum?

[qnkov]

Hello. For half a year, I have been looking for a modern forum system to start an anime/manga site with various features. For example, a video system for watching movies/episodes, a way to add manga/anime as pages with information about them, topics with posters, etc. I saw that all of this is possible with Invision Community.

I waited to see version 5, but it turned out that the self-hosted platform is extremely expensive and has functionality limits. They also changed the way we acquire add-ons, significantly restricting options, and almost no themes exist for their latest version.

On the other hand, XenForo seems like a better alternative in terms of user base and price, but the forum and themes, in general, look like they’re from the early 2000s. I understand that some may find this nostalgic, but it looks incredibly outdated and is not visually appealing.

That’s why I’m wondering what exactly to expect with version 3.0. Can we anticipate a modern interface similar to Invision Community? I really don't want to go to invision as they may drop self-hosted in next version, as they aim for big comapanies, not common users now.

 

[CedricV]

There's a new style coming for xf3 that might blow our socks off.

That is wishful thinking, but one I have also.

 

[rogerl]

Some observations, and not directed at anyone in particular:
1. Designing for forums vs designing for social media do have fundamental differences. One of the biggest is the social media platforms are usually designed as mobile apps, or for mobile. This means UIX focus on thumb reach, swipe features, and simplification because of smaller screen size are prioritized. Forums carry the legacy of 20+ years of desktop design, for better or for worse.

That is a huge part of the issue in my view - forums were designed for a desktop experience and still handle that very well. The issue is that very few people use desktop/laptop devices these days (85% mobile in our forums) and the forum experience where sidebars etc go to the bottom of the page where they are never seen just doesn't work well anymore.

We really need to look at making the mobile experience a much better one if we are to survive.

 

[cdub]

where sidebars etc go to the bottom of the page where they are never seen just doesn't work well anymore.

Yes! This is the issue. The latest posts widget gets hidden on mobile. I have an unread posts widget at the top of the forum list instead of sidebar for this reason.

 

[AndrewSimm]

I know you can change it but...

The borders on everything is a bit dated. I also think filters could be designed to come from the side vs a popup and closing a filter from the filter bar isn't very mobile friendly. I would also say the layout of different post and widgets against a gray background is dated as well. More modern would have a solid white background against the gray background.

One big example is registration. I would rather have users confirm a code from a text message verses an email. Another example is the search. I should be able to make a search and then select different content types for the phrase I searched.

Overall I think XF is a great platform to develop on and much of what I mentioned is styling that can be changed. XF2 came out in 2018 and I think the style reflects that.

 

[mjda]

I should be able to make a search and then select different content types for the phrase I searched.

I agree! I still find myself having to re-type my search phrase, even after having done it I can't even begin to count how many times! Love the instant search results but it's not very user-friendly if you're wanting to limit them based on title and/or member.

XF2 came out in 2018 and I think the style reflects that.

Worry not! I'm pretty sure I read there will be a new one...sometime before 2030.

 

[Kirby]

I would rather have users confirm a code from a text message verses an email.

Personally I think this would be bad (at least if it was the only option), for privacy reasons I wouldn't want to register at a random forum that asks for my mobile number - IMHO this is much more risky than providing my email address.

It could also be somewhat difficult to support probably dozens of providers and it would cost the board owner additional money for the messages (+ the risk for abuse / spam by automated requests).

Another example is the search. I should be able to make a search and then select different content types for the phrase I searched.

Hmm, I'd say almost nobody uses search anyway.
And those who do most of the time expect it to work just like ... Google.
So I fear that anything even slightly more complex than just typing in a search phrase and getting the correct results won't be compatible with most users.

 

[Mendalla]

IMHO this is much more risky than providing my email address.

Agreed. With an email address you can spin up a new one on one of the freemail sites fairly easily to use if you have concerns about the site. Not so with mobile numbers.

It could also be somewhat difficult to support probably dozens of providers and it would cost the board owner additional money for the messages (+ the risk for abuse / spam by automated requests).

I am not sure how organizations that spam texts like certain political parties here in Canada operate. I'm guessing there must be services that handle routing the messages to the correct providers but there would be fees involved and, yes, those are largely used for spam so not sure a legit site would want to deal with them. The one I got last week from one of our parties did have an option to reply with "STOP" to shut down further messages, which I imagine would also be offered by the service, not the sender.

 

[Suzanne O]

I know you can change it but...

The borders on everything is a bit dated. I also think filters could be designed to come from the side vs a popup and closing a filter from the filter bar isn't very mobile friendly. I would also say the layout of different post and widgets against a gray background is dated as well. More modern would have a solid white background against the gray background.

One big example is registration. I would rather have users confirm a code from a text message verses an email. Another example is the search. I should be able to make a search and then select different content types for the phrase I searched.

Overall I think XF is a great platform to develop on and much of what I mentioned is styling that can be changed. XF2 came out in 2018 and I think the style reflects that.

We're not a social media platform.
Even if you think we should be, we're not.
A forum is not facebook you silly people laugh reacting at my posts.

 

[KSA]

Someone was asking for concert points and then vanished.

 

[Forsaken]

We're not a social media platform.
Even if you think we should be, we're not.
A forum is not facebook you silly people laugh reacting at my posts.

Let people do what they want with their forums?

 

[qnkov]

The forum is what you want to be. It could become even video system. We, the young ones, in our 30s, demand modernization!

 

[Joe Blow]

So again I ask; can you please share what your idea of a modern forum software looks like?

I know what it doesn't look like, and that's the same tired old layout from the 20th century.

Something needs to change. People under 30 have almost zero interest in websites with a traditional forum layout.

Forums are for old farts, and I say this as someone with a 21 year old forum and has the stats to prove it.

 

[Suzanne O]

I know what it doesn't look like, and that's the same tired old layout from the 20th century.

Something needs to change. People under 30 have almost zero interest in websites with a traditional forum layout.

Forums are for old farts, and I say this as someone with a 21 year old forum and has the stats to prove it.

We're also not all old farts.
There are some people who think that forums are dead and should be like social media.
Maybe they should stay on social media and stop moaning about how people do their forums.
Some of these people need to use proboards.com just to work out why they're so restrictive.

 

[AndrewSimm]

We're not a social media platform.
Even if you think we should be, we're not.
A forum is not facebook you silly people laugh reacting at my posts.

Can you provide some context? I didn't say anything about social media.

 

[alexm]

People under 30 have almost zero interest in websites with a traditional forum layout.

I think we ought to educate them, in that case, because they are earning nothing, in my opinion.

 

[frm]

Personally I think this would be bad (at least if it was the only option), for privacy reasons I wouldn't want to register at a random forum that asks for my mobile number - IMHO this is much more risky than providing my email address.

There are plenty of services where you would pass the phone number over (not even handling it on your server besides the API call) and it send an SMS for verification... much like 2FA codes.

Google Search

 

[Joe Blow]

I think we ought to educate them, in that case, because they are earning nothing, in my opinion.

Keeping the layout unchanged for over a quarter of a century is admitting that it cannot be improved, which is ludicrous.

Navigation is clunky, layout is boring and uninspired. Don't get me started on functionality. It can be improved and should be improved to be more intuitive and easy to navigate. There should at least be two officially supported layouts, traditional and new.

Forums are slowly committing suicide day by day by refusing to adapt. No platform lasts forever in the same format. Forum developers should do well to heed that reality.

 

[FTL]

Keeping the layout unchanged for over a quarter of a century is admitting that it cannot be improved, which is ludicrous.

Navigation is clunky, layout is boring and uninspired. Don't get me started on functionality. It can be improved and should be improved to be more intuitive and easy to navigate. There should at least be two officially supported layouts, traditional and new.

Forums are slowly committing suicide day by day by refusing to adapt. No platform lasts forever in the same format. Forum developers should do well to heed that reality.

Sometimes an optimum design is reached where no further large scale improvements can be made. Couple of examples:

• The vast majority of cars have 4 inflatable wheels, not more, not less because it's the optimum number for stability and other factors. It's been this way for well over 100 years and won't change anytime soon as it's just basic physics. Only details are different like better designs, materials etc.
• Passenger jets look the same as when they were first invented in the 1950s: swept back wings and either two, three or four engines, a tail and a rudder. Other designs have been experimented with, but this is the most efficient, so it stays like this. It explains why most planes nowadays look like cookie cutter versions of each other with only the A380 and now retired 747 looking somewhat different, but again, made in the same basic way.

There are thousands of situations like this where the optimim design has been reached, so it doesn't matter how much time has passed, it won't change in basic form and function, only details. The same is true of forum software. The structure of XF lends itself to creating long form, richly formatted posts and a strong community. This is something that the likes of Facebook, YouTube, Disqus and the like are hopeless at, so XF is far superior in this respect, as are other forum products built in a similar way.

It even works reasonably well on smartphones and tablets, with the limiting factor there being those touchscreen, keyboard and mouseless devices, not the software.

So there you have it, just because a design has been around for ages, doesn't necessarily mean it's outdated or obsolete like you think it is. XF isn't outdated.

 

[Kirby]

There are plenty of services where you would pass the phone number over

Yeah, for privacy reasons I usually (try to) use alternatives and avoid services that require my phone number (as their basically is no reason to require it).
That's why I think it would be a bad idea to make that mandatory.

not even handling it on your server besides the API call)

Which API should XenForo support?

Some would want to use Twilio, others Sipgate or Placetel or ...
Unlike E-Mail (=> SMTP) there is no established standard protocol / API to send SMS via a service provider, each one has their own interface.

 

[Kirby]

There are thousands of situations like this where the optimim design has been reached, so it doesn't matter how much time has passed, it won't change in basic form and function, only details. The same is true of forum software. The structure of XF lends itself to creating long form, richly formatted posts and a strong community.

Exactly. The structure of web forums today is basically still the same as usenet newsgroups since mid 1980s:
Text based content is categorized by a hierarchical structure (nodes in XenForo, newsgroups in Usenet), threads (topics) and posts (messages) within those containers.

The visual appearance (slightly) changes over time, features are improved (like a new editor) or added (like push notifications), but the basic structure never does.
Just like the basic structure (directories and files) of a modern filesystem like BcacheFS is still the same as it was on Unix systems in the 1970s.

Or think of hardware like keyboards:
Sure, we've got ultra-light, foldable wireless keyboards with special keys by now, but the basic structure (QUERTZ) of a keyboard hasn't changed for about 150 years by now.

Or think of other software:
A shiny Excel 365 isn't fundamentally (sure, it has AI support, macros, toolbar icons, etc.) different from Lotus 1-2-3 (1983):
A menu bar with various tools / commands and a spreadsheet organized by rows and columns where you can input data and formulas.