A lot of old faces errrrrrrrrrrr names

[Pope Viper]

IMO opinion, we've had a much more stable product here, at beta 1, than current VB 4.1.1 is. Granted, XF doesn't have all the features yet, in my mind, that's a good thing. They're focusing on what's important, the forum, if they decide to go with a CMS/Blog, I expect that they'll have a smart, integrated solution that's not going to be half assed, or put together without any type of research or solicitation from the owners. Another thing I think is worth the money is that you've got a tight, easily modifiable system, that's using the latest technologies, by two of the most respected forum programmers in the field.

You've also got an huge enthusiastic group of individuals who if they haven't already, are geared up to pump mods out left and right.

Not to mention you're not going to get a lot of doubletalk BS, or empty promises about how "Oh yes, that's going to happen", and then 6 months down the road you still don't see it.

Let's talk about bug support. I've lately taken to watching the bug report/resolution thread, and they're tearing through the bugs as quickly as they're reported.

I'm going to get off of my soapbox now.

 

[dutchbb]

@R1Lover: I also have to say I do not agree with your statements on the colors or the degree of masculinity I'd say the style is modern, aesthetically pleasing and anti-clutter but that's not necessarily the same of course. When I think of girly I see pink, cute images, decorative things, and stuff like that. Of course when you're coming from a blocky, outdated layout almost everything will take some time to get used to.

Regarding the stability: XF seems to be very stable so far. It's even been running on live boards in early beta and I can't remember people having any major issues even at that stage. Remember this software is developed by experienced people, they know what they're doing.

 

[Peggy]

How can you say its worth the same cost when there is not even a final release?

Other forums are the same cost with many years of proven stability.

Not *****ing here, just asking.

The only other software that is close to the same price is IPB. Haven't used it, so I don't know how stable it is, or how it works.
Since IB took over, vB has gotten about as far from "stable" as you can get. It's loaded, bloated, bulky, and slow.

The devs who were responsible for vB's earlier success are the same ones who are responsible for Xenforo's success and will take it forward to become the leader of forum software.
So look at this as an investment in the future. It may not be "worth" $140 in your eyes atm (tho to me it's more than worth it), but it will be worth it very shortly, and it's gonna wow your socks off.

 

[Shelley]

and it's gonna wow your socks off.

Pending you wear socks of course.

 

[Floris]

Welcome R1Lover, nice to see you here!! I hope you can jump into xenforo and have fun upgrading your site to a modern solution.

 

[R1Lover]

Thanksfor the feedback, the questions i am asking are questions that im being asked as well when referring customers to this solution. So far i have yet to get anyone to bite, personally i have already gone witth ipb, Im happy with it and see no reason to change as it was a large expense for the number of sites i have.

Im know the history of vb as some of you well know and i woukd never use vb personally, althoughgwhen giving people eir options, the most often asked question is why is the cost so high for a new forum that isnt even released as a stable version yet. As well as it only being a partial solution since its missing needed features at this point.

Dont get me wrong, im a big fan of kier and have been wIting for is since he left vb, but im not sure if e greed of ib wore off or not.... Time will tell when we see how much more new features will cost moving forward.

I would have preferred a license structure like the old vb, one price and updates if needed that were only 25-30 a year.

With ipb, one nice feature and selling point is just that, cheap upgrades when you want them and no other cost.

 

[R1Lover]

Sorry for the typos, im on my ipad watching a movie .....

 

[Peggy]

Thanksfor the feedback, the questions i am asking are questions that im being asked as well when referring customers to this solution. So far i have yet to get anyone to bite, personally i have already gone witth ipb, Im happy with it and see no reason to change as it was a large expense for the number of sites i have.

Im know the history of vb as some of you well know and i woukd never use vb personally, althoughgwhen giving people eir options, the most often asked question is why is the cost so high for a new forum that isnt even released as a stable version yet. As well as it only being a partial solution since its missing needed features at this point.

Dont get me wrong, im a big fan of kier and have been wIting for is since he left vb, but im not sure if e greed of ib wore off or not.... Time will tell when we see how much more new features will cost moving forward.

I would have preferred a license structure like the old vb, one price and updates if needed that were only 25-30 a year.

With ipb, one nice feature and selling point is just that, cheap upgrades when you want them and no other cost.

I'm sure that features will be added in future releases, i.e. xf 2.0 etc. The goal right now is to get a stable, core product (1.0) released (altho I really don't know how much more stable you can get).
Altho the devs may consider coding gallery/cms/etc after gold is released, I really wouldn't look for it. The goal of XenForo is forum, stability, community, imo. There are plenty of wonderful coders to develop those as add-ons.

 

[Kim]

Thanksfor the feedback, the questions i am asking are questions that im being asked as well when referring customers to this solution. So far i have yet to get anyone to bite, personally i have already gone witth ipb, Im happy with it and see no reason to change as it was a large expense for the number of sites i have.

Im know the history of vb as some of you well know and i woukd never use vb personally, althoughgwhen giving people eir options, the most often asked question is why is the cost so high for a new forum that isnt even released as a stable version yet. As well as it only being a partial solution since its missing needed features at this point.

Dont get me wrong, im a big fan of kier and have been wIting for is since he left vb, but im not sure if e greed of ib wore off or not.... Time will tell when we see how much more new features will cost moving forward.

I would have preferred a license structure like the old vb, one price and updates if needed that were only 25-30 a year.

With ipb, one nice feature and selling point is just that, cheap upgrades when you want them and no other cost.

IPB has got a lot of features, and is nice mature software.. having spent the last 7 and a bit years developing skins for it, I know it very well.

Of all those nice features IPB has, I personally used a fraction, or didn't much care for the way many were done. The product is BIG............... bigger than Ben Hur these days, with all the add ons lol.

I still would recommend IPB to anyone who needs that HUGEness, but let's face it most forums don't .. and that is where Xenforo has it all over the competition, it is slick and quick and modern.

An analogy I used just the other day to someone considering switching from IPB ....

I guess it is like the difference between your huge 4 wheel drive and your sporty car.. both are great in their own field, but driving a huge 4WD when all you do is run around town and pick up the kids makes no sense at all

 

[R1Lover]

Just for my opinion, in order to be a legit product, it's needs at the very least a gallery and a small cms or portal page. Anything else after that is all bling imo.

But a site without a portal type page, and gallery for the users is a limited offering.


I would also like to see a test version or limited version that we admins can test and show customers without having to buy a license. It would be nice to play with it first before buying it.

 

[Peggy]

umm it's not a legit product without a gallery and a cms??? wow that's pretty harsh. I guess none of these forum softwares (vB, IPB) were "legit" before they added these?
vB charged $165 for many years without a cms or gallery. IPB charged a bit less, but they still charged, for a forum-only software.

IMO, galleries and cms are extras, add-ons. Nice things to have. But a forum is a forum is a forum.

 

[Saeed]

umm it's not a legit product without a gallery and a cms??? wow that's pretty harsh. I guess none of these forum softwares (vB, IPB) were "legit" before they added these?
vB charged $165 for many years without a cms or gallery. IPB charged a bit less, but they still charged, for a forum-only software.

IMO, galleries and cms are extras, add-ons. Nice things to have. But a forum is a forum is a forum.

I second that. Just because a webmaster / site owner would want all these features does not mean that they need to be part of the forum software itself. They could (and I believe should) work equally well as add-ons.

Actually, the very fact that we are considering a CMS and gallery etc to be a part of the forum software instead of vice versa, i.e. the forum software being part of a CMS or gallery, testifies for the stand-alone importance of a stable and robust forum core. Atleast that's what I personally believe.

 

[EQnoble]

I myself think the colors of the focus parts of the page are just where they need to be...the rest can be changed and most likely will by a purchaser running a forum. Not to mention the way the color editor works..... well changing colors takes seconds literally so it's not like your locked into anything anyways. And then when you make something ugly there is always revert all as a feature which I mean...anyways it's a default color preference of the person the code here would call god if it believed in such. It doesn't really matter.And to me a CMS doesn't either and I hope if an official one is made it is a module and not part of the core myself. I don't need it and for me it's bloat though I know to many the same is not true. But out of XF I need a forum and they are delivering a solid product that even my newbass can work with. But as they say every man want's a different piece of candy out the bowl.

But anyways beside the noise, where is my manners and welcome to the site...if you have teamviewer I would be glad to let you mess around with the style properties of my testbed.

 

[Shelley]

It's amazing how the past couple of days that some folk expect to see a brand new innovative product to have all the bells and whistles. Remembering that its new, the devs are creating a stronger, more stable robust core product so that when the time comes these kind of add-ons and additional core features can and will be added.

I know that some folk just want to see devs cram and pile on the features thick and fast causing the product to get fat and obese and features which come close to being partial features but I like to think that building the foundation first will help us as customers in the long term. People these days think short term that just want want want.

I doubt IPB/vb or any other product for that matter magically sprung a rich feature list in the first version.

 

[Floris]

I totally agree Shelley, but I am sure you can see it from people who run sites their point of view as well.

If you are on a horse and wagon and you come into town and someone shows you a better wagon and better healthier horses to help you along your travels; Isn't it normal to just ask if those horses come with the full stern package or just 2 to steer with. Will the wagon have a spare wheel or wood to improve on it, or a box to put tools in?

It's not really just about the bells and whistles and people expecting or demanding it. They are simply pre-sales questions from people who have experience with a certain setup and are looking for something to upgrade away from, and towards something new. Sure they understand the new wagon in town might not have a toolbox, but it would be nice to know if there are plans for one. Or if there are hooks for the fabric to cover the family from rain, etc.

Some people of course just want bells and whistles, not really grasping it's a version 1 - but I can also imagine that when they are blown away with this beta product (currently 1.0 rc1) that they want to convert as soon as possible -> ergo: starting to expect more awesomeness. They're still pre-sales questions.

 

[Shelley]

I totally agree Shelley, but I am sure you can see it from people who run sites their point of view as well.

If you are on a horse and wagon and you come into town and someone shows you a better wagon and better healthier horses to help you along your travels; Isn't it normal to just ask if those horses come with the full stern package or just 2 to steer with. Will the wagon have a spare wheel or wood to improve on it, or a box to put tools in?

It's not really just about the bells and whistles and people expecting or demanding it. They are simply pre-sales questions from people who have experience with a certain setup and are looking for something to upgrade away from, and towards something new. Sure they understand the new wagon in town might not have a toolbox, but it would be nice to know if there are plans for one. Or if there are hooks for the fabric to cover the family from rain, etc.

Some people of course just want bells and whistles, not really grasping it's a version 1 - but I can also imagine that when they are blown away with this beta product (currently 1.0 rc1) that they want to convert as soon as possible -> ergo: starting to expect more awesomeness. They're still pre-sales questions.

There's being excited and blown away by a product but let's remember why they were blown away. Because the developers built and implemented the features we have now were built with the devs not being rushed, pressured to include other features. As an ex customer of another software we know what happens when things are rushed, compromises are made we all get a product that's shoddy.

I don't feel Kier & Mike should deviate from the development path they have been taking. Sure folks can be excited, We all are but if excitement for a product results in you wanting more features crammed in within the minimal time then 6 months down the line there won't be many excited people. I say that with experience, like with hundreds of other people have also experienced.

My own personal opinion. I can't see their point of view because you, me and many others have been there where compromises were made and as a result our sites suffered. For me I closed down two. I can however see how people are excited but remembering they are excited because the time the devs are spending on the features already in the product and daily improving upon them to give us a solid product.

Just my opinion.

 

[EQnoble]

Well from the prospective of a noob to a set place ( since I am a noob everywhere ) I think the basic problem boils down to is the people have questions with answers we as people who have already used the product know and have come to familiarize ourselves with so quick because it was easy that we forgot how we felt pre release of the first beta. The solution in my opinion would be to implement a way to allow newcomers to see the acp side of things and how much integrated control there is over this product beta or otherwise hence why i offer people teamview of my browser window to play with my admincp while I snack or something.

 

[Wired]

Girly? It's blue! I might be old fashioned, but when I grew up, girlies liked pink. (And skipping. And dolls houses. But they're not easy to represent in a forum style).

cornify.com can make ANY site girly lol.

 

[John]

I agree with both basic points of view presented here actually. I'd be surprised if Kier & Mike didn't to some extent as well. The bottom line is XF will work perfectly for some as is and not for other's just yet. Doesn't mean either camp doesn't have valid points worth considering and addressing.

 

[Saeed]

I agree with both basic points of view presented here actually. I'd be surprised if Kier & Mike didn't to some extent as well. The bottom line is XF will work perfectly for some as is and not for other's just yet. Doesn't mean either camp doesn't have valid points worth considering and addressing.

Very true!

And may I add that there's nothing stopping our beloved developers of XF from integrating any other features (CMS, gallery, download manager) in a totally different and innovative manner. Who know that once they do put their mind to building these features, they come up (yet again) with something that is absolutely new and spanking-fantastic!