California Case Update

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Even if development has ceased for now (and I wouldnt blame them if it has, and would expect it to) who cares? We know that theres a huge chance of XF winning the case. Even if it doesn't, you'll still be able to use XF and there will be a huge number of people supporting it.

At this point I have zero sympathy for people moaning saying "I need to know when the next version is out". The reason I have zero sympathy is because:

1) In most cases, these people just want an update for the sake of it.
2) You knew that XF was in a legal battle BEFORE you purchased a license, and therefor agreed to take the risk.
3) You know bugger all about the situation in the background (none of us do).
4) How do you know (I know its unlikely) that a bunch of work hasn't been done already, and is just waiting for the case to be over - we may see a huge update when the case ends.

and a few 'myths' to dispel: (note: This is in no way aimed at any one person)

1) If KAM didnt give a damn about XF anymore, they would have closed the place long ago, and not spent 2 years working day and night on a lawsuit.
2) If you're still going to spread fud, go away. Seriously, it's got to stop.

At this point all we can do is wish KAM the best of luck with the January trial. If there's something you urgently need out of a forum system that XF cant handle, then go and use another system - it really is that simple.

Sorry if I sound like an ass, but I'm fed up of the damn naysayers - go use another piece of software if you aren't happy, or get someone to create your own addons (or do it yourself - its really not hard at all!)
 
Golly Jeepers, not to be a wannabe speculator... but...

If I was without income for over 2 years following a dream, I think it might just be the situation were I had to go out and earn a living and put that dream on hold.

No one can live on nothing, members of this team have families to support and to date I am sure that every penny earned by Xenforo has been sucked into the defense of this lawsuit.

I do not know for sure, but logic would suggest that income has to be earned somewhere - if not here.
 
I'm very glad to hear that maybe Kier has the time and energy to read this thread, albeit wearing a flame protection suit.

I just want to extend a very deeply felt Thank You to KAM for keeping your cool and fighting for your rights in spite of all of the flaming that's been going on here.

I wish you each and your families all the very best and hope that the good guys win this one!
 
I pop in here now and again, hoping/wishing to see something resolved in this thread, it takes a little longer than it should because some people just love posting in it. :rolleyes: I don't get it, Its not like anyone's gonna die, but some people go on about it as if their lives and business futures depend upon it, its just one piece of software, OK its very good, but do give it a rest, remember to die you need a life first.
 
I'm not the least bit surprised, why else would the judge have let it continue for two years only to abort right before the trial, would make no sense unless there would be conclusive evidence that IB is doing it to destroy a competitor, which isn't exactly the case (most of us are sure about this, but that's obviously not enough in a courtroom). I'm pretty sure it will all be over somewhere in 2013 though.
 
Kim said:
Golly Jeepers, not to be a wannabe speculator... but...

If I was without income for over 2 years following a dream, I think it might just be the situation were I had to go out and earn a living and put that dream on hold.

No one can live on nothing, members of this team have families to support and to date I am sure that every penny earned by Xenforo has been sucked into the defense of this lawsuit.

I do not know for sure, but logic would suggest that income has to be earned somewhere - if not here.
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Well, but at least someone could tell us anything. Right now there are just speculations out there, even if KAM cant write a word because of this Lawsuit there is always a way to tell something. Just to be quite, closing the Demo, not developing the software just giving a vague Statement which can mean everything seems not very reassuring.... Just my opinion.
 
RickM said:
Even if development has ceased for now (and I wouldnt blame them if it has, and would expect it to) who cares? We know that theres a huge chance of XF winning the case. Even if it doesn't, you'll still be able to use XF and there will be a huge number of people supporting it.

At this point I have zero sympathy for people moaning saying "I need to know when the next version is out". The reason I have zero sympathy is because:
Click to expand...

It not about the next version but what is going to happen in general, by not knowing anything at all we or i can't plan for our self's. I can have the biggest plans in the world but if the software i want to use or using at the moment, will not be improved on or will have new features on regularly time frame those plans will not matter. Also where not asking feature x comes in a month but like feature x will not come in 12 months improvement y will come within 12 months etc etc. So time scale of a year people can plan its not ideal but better as nothing at all.

1) In most cases, these people just want an update for the sake of it.
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Update software or company status both are important but company wise i have given my views on that so read it if you like. Software wise like i said above updates are sometimes needed but KAM are good developers so bug wise you should not get many errors on your site.
2) You knew that XF was in a legal battle BEFORE you purchased a license, and therefor agreed to take the risk.
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The majority knew something was up, but if you read the announcement forum you see that before the first sale nothing here was said about the lawsuit. But ask your self this, companies in the world that is getting sued should they all stop working, or do as the majority just work. Lawsuits against companies are common these days people sue the builder because he did not do what he agreed on, should that builder stop working on his current project etc etc etc. If it was just like well IB won the lawsuit and the license is revoked or you need to use the new script to make sure you are within the rights of the outcome of the lawsuit it would be fine. Now it's KAM's choice to work on the software that's something people never considered happening, just read the topics on the forum and you see that there was never any talk about it.

3) You know bugger all about the situation in the background (none of us do).
4) How do you know (I know its unlikely) that a bunch of work hasn't been done already, and is just waiting for the case to be over - we may see a huge update when the case ends.
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Reverse this you don't know if they worked on it either, but most assume that worked stopped. This is easier because the letdown that nothing happened would be far greater, if what you say is true i can only get happier.
and a few 'myths' to dispel: (note: This is in no way aimed at any one person)

1) If KAM didnt give a damn about XF anymore, they would have closed the place long ago, and not spent 2 years working day and night on a lawsuit.
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The lawsuit would not go away like that, IB is out for the destruction of KAM so they would continue the lawsuit against them. It's not like the company does not exist and now you can't touch us, that would mean people can copy anything and everything and when there sued they break down the company.
2) If you're still going to spread fud, go away. Seriously, it's got to stop.
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Where do you see fud, people are concerned about their own lively hood they want answers about the software. Let's take this scenario people that invested lots of money and i mean at least 1k and up that are left in the dark and nothing is happening with the software could they hold the owners of the company responsible. The actions or in-actions that is happening could have another impact on the company people that make a living with this software are concerned it could be that they are next that will have trouble because Xenforo is not keeping them informed or continue development steadily.

At this point all we can do is wish KAM the best of luck with the January trial. If there's something you urgently need out of a forum system that XF cant handle, then go and use another system - it really is that simple.
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There is another trail for this month lets hope IB loses that one. But i agree best of luck to KAM.

People that have large forums can't switch that easily they picked a script that worked and was actively developed and made sure there own systems where integrated. Even a forum that is vanilla with 10k post is looking at a months work to switch to a new system and that is optimistic, you need to do this and that and test before you can switch. Other forums have preperation of months before they are switched so its not as simple as you say but you knew that all ready to begin with.

Sorry if I sound like an ass, but I'm fed up of the damn naysayers - go use another piece of software if you aren't happy, or get someone to create your own addons (or do it yourself - its really not hard at all!)
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Well i think the people that are on the other side where you stand feel the exact same way but we call you the yessayers. Read above what i have said about switching you know its not as simple as it sounds, also making your own add-ons is not something you want to do if you just started development to many stuff can go wrong.
 
RickM said:
Even if development has ceased for now (and I wouldnt blame them if it has, and would expect it to) who cares? We know that theres a huge chance of XF winning the case. Even if it doesn't, you'll still be able to use XF and there will be a huge number of people supporting it.

At this point I have zero sympathy for people moaning saying "I need to know when the next version is out". The reason I have zero sympathy is because:

1) In most cases, these people just want an update for the sake of it.
2) You knew that XF was in a legal battle BEFORE you purchased a license, and therefor agreed to take the risk.
3) You know bugger all about the situation in the background (none of us do).
4) How do you know (I know its unlikely) that a bunch of work hasn't been done already, and is just waiting for the case to be over - we may see a huge update when the case ends.

and a few 'myths' to dispel: (note: This is in no way aimed at any one person)

1) If KAM didnt give a damn about XF anymore, they would have closed the place long ago, and not spent 2 years working day and night on a lawsuit.
2) If you're still going to spread fud, go away. Seriously, it's got to stop.

At this point all we can do is wish KAM the best of luck with the January trial. If there's something you urgently need out of a forum system that XF cant handle, then go and use another system - it really is that simple.

Sorry if I sound like an ass, but I'm fed up of the damn naysayers - go use another piece of software if you aren't happy, or get someone to create your own addons (or do it yourself - its really not hard at all!)
Click to expand...

1. Seriously, are you kidding? Or making excuses for the lack of development? Are you now saying people just update their software just for the sake of updating because the company is going through a rough patch? I personally update the software because with each update it was worth updating to get new features.
2. Yes, we all bought into the risk, myself included. I stick by that. But when brogan says the lawsuit is not the reason development stopped it's basically an internal issue then questions will be asked by those that showed faith in xenforo.That is something customers did not buy into.
3. Then why are you even bring this up? Just to argue for arguments sake.
4. Nobody knows, infact, nobody knows anything and unless somebody has went around kier and mikes home and physically severed their hands off that has stopped them posting here then half the community will ask questions, the other majoirty will bash those for asking and a small majority will take on the part of Wannabe lawyers and post the biggest pile of guff in this thread.

Not having a go at you i'm just responding to your post, and posting from the concerned user perspective. Telling people to go is not exactly the answer, you think your actually doing xenforo any good by telling people to go? this group telling people to go are a bigger part of the issue as the people who actually did just troll for the sake of trolling.

As for the naysayers, I simply asked a question in this thread and got accused of speculating and then met with a nice verbal PC by 1 wannabe lawyer so I think at this point some people are just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you think for one moment your helping xenforo, showing support your not. If this thread is an indicator of showing support then XF seriously doesn't benefit whatsoever from your own brand of support.

Last time I checked, people like syndol, floren, deebs many others who contribute where met with verbal abuse by those supportive members for asking questions you lot just trash and bash for the sake of it now because you've done it for so long you don't really know how to show support.

Anyway, Carry on, the customerbase does more damage to xenforo than IB are doing with your own brand of showing support. Can't take most people here seriously.

Ps. I had to wade through 10 plus pages of utter garbage in this thread to get any useful info. Well done.

FWIW - goodluck in January.
 
Shelley said:
Anyway, Carry on, the customerbase does more damage to xenforo than IB are doing with your own brand of showing support. Can't take most people here seriously.

Ps. I had to wade through 10 plus pages of utter garbage in this thread to get any useful info. Well done.

FWIW - goodluck in January.
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It seems the lack of customer interaction from anyone higher up is doing a lot of damage as well. It looks like 1 post every three months isn't cutting it for a lot of people.

Which is fine, I knew that when i purchased it last night and i bought it because it does everything i need it to now, and for my community for the foreseeable future.
 
Forsaken said:
Many of the original supporters of XF have been burned due to the lack of communication. For resource providers they've also taken a hit on income because people are hesitant to invest into a platform that might potentially die within the next year.
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This is the crux of the matter for the future of XF, not so much the lawsuit at this point. A business can survive only so long without lot's of new customers and resource developers won't stick around when no one is spending money because of the uncertainty that does surround this company. My experience tells me that the health of the ecosystem surrounding a product is a strong indicator as to the overall health of said product.
 
we_are_borg said:
It not about the next version but what is going to happen in general, by not knowing anything at all we or i can't plan for our self's. I can have the biggest plans in the world but if the software i want to use or using at the moment, will not be improved on or will have new features on regularly time frame those plans will not matter. Also where not asking feature x comes in a month but like feature x will not come in 12 months improvement y will come within 12 months etc etc. So time scale of a year people can plan its not ideal but better as nothing at all.
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If you want to do something with your site/forum NOW and XF cant do it either:
A) Hire someone to work on it, or if you arent happy/able to do that;
B) Move to another piece of software.

we_are_borg said:
Reverse this you don't know if they worked on it either, but most assume that worked stopped. This is easier because the letdown that nothing happened would be far greater, if what you say is true i can only get happier.
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Oh I do agree. Whilst its highly unlikely that anything has been done on it, we dont know. Even if nothing has been done, it's hardly a big deal given how quickly production can get ramped back up on an established product.

we_are_borg said:
The lawsuit would not go away like that, IB is out for the destruction of KAM so they would continue the lawsuit against them. It's not like the company does not exist and now you can't touch us, that would mean people can copy anything and everything and when there sued they break down the company.
Click to expand...

Whilst you're correct, if KAM really wanted to walk away - they would have agreed to the settlement with IB, or would still be in settlement talks. They wouldn't be fighting their corner as strong as they are right now.

we_are_borg said:
Where do you see fud, people are concerned about their own lively hood they want answers about the software. Let's take this scenario people that invested lots of money and i mean at least 1k and up that are left in the dark and nothing is happening with the software could they hold the owners of the company responsible. The actions or in-actions that is happening could have another impact on the company people that make a living with this software are concerned it could be that they are next that will have trouble because Xenforo is not keeping them informed or continue development steadily.
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I dont buy this scenario. If you're heavily dependant on your forums you'd know that using XF from the begining was a risk - if you didnt then more fool you. People who felt this would have a negative effect on their boards, and who werent prepared to stick it out should have switched software long ago. If your site is being crippled by XF's lack of updates (not that the 'core' product really has any major features missing) then use another piece of software.

we_are_borg said:
There is another trail for this month lets hope IB loses that one. But i agree best of luck to KAM.
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Agreed - all the best of luck to KAM and their families for a positive outcome!

we_are_borg said:
People that have large forums can't switch that easily they picked a script that worked and was actively developed and made sure there own systems where integrated. Even a forum that is vanilla with 10k post is looking at a months work to switch to a new system and that is optimistic, you need to do this and that and test before you can switch. Other forums have preperation of months before they are switched so its not as simple as you say but you knew that all ready to begin with.
<snip>
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As a developer, I dont buy this one either. Whilst its obviously not as easy as moving a forum with, say 20k members, a 'large' forum is still fairly simple to move. Obviously if you've got custom addons you'd need to have those remade, but again, if you spent time on money on XF, then there's no reason why you cant spend it on another platform if you're really wanting to move away. As someone who moved a large forum to XF, it involved about a month's worth of coding custom modules, followed by a beta test and a final deployment. It went very smooth.


In closing, whilst I do completely respect and understand where you're coming from, it's a case of sucking it up and either sticking it out, or jumping ship - speculating about whats happening, and demanding updates is obviously not getting anybody anywhere. There are no if's or buts, you either stick with XF and maintain it yourself for now, or go elsewhere.

I know this sounds like a cliche, but it really is that simple.
 
Let's all take a step back and look at this critically.

Best case scenario: XF wins. We get new updates. Everyone is happy.
Worst case scenario: XF loses. We still have a stable piece of software and can go forward knowing that third party devs will take up the slack - because they will.

No matter what happens, I'm sticking with XF. It's a stable, intuitive platform. It looks good and does what it says it will. Two years out of the box it's STILL better than anything I've seen out there, including vB and everything they've managed to put out. No matter the outcome, I'm not going to lose any sleep. I'll really feel for KAM because this whole thing has been a crock of horses***, but my site will not suffer regardless of the case.
 
Shelley said:
1. Seriously, are you kidding? Or making excuses for the lack of development? Are you now saying people just update their software just for the sake of updating because the company is going through a rough patch? I personally update the software because with each update it was worth updating to get new features.
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No. I'm not kidding Shelley. What exact features that are missing from XF are crippling your forums?
(FYI I'm not making excuses for the lack of development - I dont know why there is no development and dont care to speculate either)

Shelley said:
2. Yes, we all bought into the risk, myself included. I stick by that. But when brogan says the lawsuit is not the reason development stopped it's basically an internal issue then questions will be asked by those that showed faith in xenforo.That is something customers did not buy into.
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Whilst I respect Brogan, what proof has he provided? For all we know (and I hope I'm wrong) he could have just decided to spread rubbish due to a fallout. I'm not defending XF or anything here, but you've only heard half the story.

Shelley said:
3. Then why are you even bring this up? Just to argue for arguments sake.
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My post did start as a response to someone, but kind of grew into a full scale reply, simply because the naysaying is pathetic.

Shelley said:
4. Nobody knows, infact, nobody knows anything and unless somebody has went around kier and mikes home and physically severed their hands off that has stopped them posting here then half the community will ask questions, the other majoirty will bash those for asking and a small majority will take on the part of Wannabe lawyers and post the biggest pile of guff in this thread.
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I agree, the community will ask questions - I've even asked them myself. But it's now at the point where you have to sit back and evaluate your position. You need to ask yourself "ok, I need X Y Z added to my forums, and I have no idea if or when it'll ever happen with XF - what shall I do?" - moaning about the lack of updates hasn't exactly helped in any way, and it's gotten us no closer to an answer, so it's time to think about what you need to do for your own community.

Shelley said:
Not having a go at you i'm just responding to your post, and posting from the concerned user perspective. Telling people to go is not exactly the answer, you think your actually doing xenforo any good by telling people to go? this group telling people to go are a bigger part of the issue as the people who actually did just troll for the sake of trolling.
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Dont worry - I know you aren't, and I'm not trying to have a go at you, or any other member of the forums - I love the community here and want to see it back on a stable ground :)

I'm not trying to troll, I'm just seriously looking at this from a 3rd person point of view. Throwing all the political rubbish to the side, it's now at the point where it needs to be said that if you arent here to support XF, then you probably shouldnt be here (note: I'm not saying 'You' as in you personally here). If XF isnt working for your forums, dont use it - use something else. Whilst I'd obviously love to see more sites using XF, you cant base your entire site and its income around one piece of software. For me, I'm happy to use XF as I know that if it dropped off the face of the planet tomorrow, I could still perform updates as and where I need to, obviously everyone will be in a different situation.

Shelley said:
As for the naysayers, I simply asked a question in this thread and got accused of speculating and then met with a nice verbal PC by 1 wannabe lawyer so I think at this point some people are just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you think for one moment your helping xenforo, showing support your not. If this thread is an indicator of showing support then XF seriously doesn't benefit whatsoever from your own brand of support.
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I agree about the fake lawyers, that's getting a touch silly now. I'm not trying to throw support anywhere here though. If XF stopped doing what I wanted it to, I'd either add it in myself or use something else - this isnt about loyalty to a product, it's about simple facts.
Shelley said:
Last time I checked, people like syndol, floren, deebs many others who contribute where met with verbal abuse by those supportive members for asking questions you lot just trash and bash for the sake of it now because you've done it for so long you don't really know how to show support.
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Not sure who 'you lot' are but if you look at my post history this is my first "rant" here. I'm not bashing anyone, just saying "if xf is not working for you - use something else", in simplified terms.

Shelley said:
Anyway, Carry on, the customerbase does more damage to xenforo than IB are doing with your own brand of showing support. Can't take most people here seriously.
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No disrespect, but you've had a few trollish posts here yourself Shelley - I would point you to them but your profile's blocked.

My point does still stand though:

I use XF because it works for me. If it doesnt work for you, has missing features that you need, etc - either make them, pay to have them made, or use something else.

I've been in software development long enough to know that you cant put all your eggs in a 3rd party's basket. Blaming the software is often just used as a way of passing the buck. Moaning at the community/developers that the software isn't doing what it's supposed to clearly doesn't do anyone any good in this situation.

Hopefully come the end of Jan/Feb we'll be able to have a forum clean out to get rid of all these posts, and move on with Xf's future.
 
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