California Case Update

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Jake Bunce said:
Absolutely I am correct. The issues being addressed right now are procedural. The allegations made by IB (such as copying vB's code) don't enter into it. That stuff will be heard at trial.
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Your optimism clouds your judgement I think. While we all (XF customers) appreciate the support everyone is showing for XF and we all (XF customers) hope they win, to say these issues are procedural now that they've lost, when 10 hours ago it was
Jake Bunce said:
I think there is a good chance of dismissal.
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Doesn't seem to bode well.
 
How is he being optimistic in that post?

This is all pretrial procedure. It's basically getting the car ready before the race. The race itself is still a long way away.
 
signal500 said:
...to say these issues are procedural now that they've lost, when 10 hours ago it was...
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It was procedural 10 hours ago too, but there were additional items in support of XF's motion to dismiss (beyond just the fate of the TAC). For example, IB has yet to serve 3 new defendants from the SAC. That, in addition to the fate of the TAC, lead me to give my opinion (which was solicited) that there is a good chance for dismissal.

Now that XF's motion to dismiss is denied... I would say that, for XF's part, this is purely a procedural misunderstanding about the fate of the TAC. There are no other relevant issues that I am aware of. XF thought the TAC was granted (which it was in part). It's all understandable. It's not like XF failed to serve new defendants.
 
Jake, I would PM you but can't.

With regards to the case status updates, the plaintiff in this case is "vBULLETIN SOLUTIONS, INC." not IB. I'm being pedantic, I know.
 
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Alice-SU said:
Generally speaking off topic. I find it so fascinating that the individuals whom claim to support XF the most are also the loudest and first to speak ill of it whenever possible. This thread is an idea example.
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Many of the original supporters of XF have been burned due to the lack of communication. For resource providers they've also taken a hit on income because people are hesitant to invest into a platform that might potentially die within the next year.
 
Harry Fox said:
Jake, how you said that the next court date is November 19th... What will this be for?
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It is vBs motion to decide the case early in their favor.
Most likely (from the spirit of yesterdays court date) it will be denied also, but there is a good chance that the trial date will be delayed until perhaps end of 2013.
 
TheBigK said:
Strange! I wonder what the US Judicial System thinks about "Justice Delayed Is Justice Denied".
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The biggest problem is, that KAM with it's decision to stop developing XF, brought themselves in that bad situation. If they would have continued to develop and support their product and their community handling the situation very differently there would be more money (and spirit) left to stand even much more delays.

But...
 
HWS said:
The biggest problem is, that KAM with it's decision to stop developing XF, brought themselves in that bad situation. If they would have continued to develop and support their product and their community handling the situation very differently there would be more money (and spirit) left to stand even much more delays.

But...
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There is no evidence to suggest development has ceased.

There is no evidence to suggest Kier, Mike and Ashley has abandoned XenForo.

There is no evidence to suggest that the status quo will remain should the case be extended past January 2013.
 
ManagerJosh said:
There is no evidence to suggest development has ceased.

There is no evidence to suggest Kier, Mike and Ashley has abandoned XenForo.

There is no evidence to suggest that the status quo will remain should the case be extended past January 2013.
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Yeah, you're right. Sorry, I'm wrong here. Just disregard all I've said. Thank you.
:cautious:
 
I'm trying to look into what exactly is the third complaint (TAC) and what is its fate not yet decided. I certainly don't want to see the trial date being pushed to the end of 2013 (if this is a possibility at all). I want to see some concrete decision being made on 15th January and I promise if XF wins - I'll do the Gangnam dance.

I know Kier reads this thread and I request him to please update us on what can we expect in coming days on the development front. XF's still selling the licenses of the software and that makes me feel that the software's still alive and KAM will be back in action once the Judge rules in XF's favor.

I also want to see Mike logged in for real (visible) on this site and posting about the status of the development.
 
dtommy79 said:
So what is the worst case scenerio? What happens to the forum if IB wins?
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From my briefing notes.

Will XF win?
Yes unless something completely new and unforeseen arises.
VBSI has lost a great deal of their original list of claims. On what’s left they have repeatedly failed to produce evidence beyond opinions. Their dates don’t back their points, and many other mistakes create muddle. They have failed to produce any witnesses, and when employees were due to be questioned they withdrew, refusing to risk ikt. Their own expert when comparing their code with XF decided there was no suspect ovedrlap.
The case appears to be an exercise in draining XF finances so as to kill off a rival company. This hasn’t succeeded largely due to the great popularity of XF as a superior product.
It may happen that the case never actually gedts to court for trial. It could be dismissed by the judge as too insubstantial. Or VBSI might just give up!

Will VBSI take over XF if they win? They wish! It’s one of their many demands but not a type of penalty normally used in this kind of case. They could only really get XF if the owners sell to them but this seems totally unlikely. See CCU Sept 26 2012.

Can VBSI interfere with my use of XF? XF is a registered UK company. Only UK authorities can make legal orders to affect our use of a UK company’s product developed in the UK. So even if VBSI were totally unexpectedly to win the USA case, using an XF licence we own would still be legal. There are several sources on this:
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...he-legal-accusations.31305/page-3#post-371023 and
http://xenforo.com/community/threads/contingency-plans.14793/#post-194037
Also see July 16 CCU (this thread)
 
HWS said:
The biggest problem is, that KAM with it's decision to stop developing XF, brought themselves in that bad situation. If they would have continued to develop and support their product and their community handling the situation very differently there would be more money (and spirit) left to stand even much more delays.
But...
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There was a decision last August not to produce XF 1.2 for sale, pending the case being resolved. That was based on a January judgement.
If it looks like a lot longer - which is currently not certain one way or tother - then the August development decision may well be reviewed. XF 1.2 was on the way, so was the Resource Manager. Purely as an opinion I doubt very much that Kier and Mike simply stopped coding: like Sean Connery in Africa sweating, it's what they DO.

I agree that they are very peculiar people. Making a living on other projects (while XF money goes into the case), working through a mountain of legal paperwork every week, doing forum troubleshooting, looking after a baby in first year parenting, coping with a high level of stress and some personal crises as a result, why they are really strange and impertinent that apparently they are ACTUALLY taking some hours each night to SLEEP.
Tut tut. Why can't they just take a few naps and get on with our XF 1.2? Silly really it would be so easy.

On t6he case I would doubt we will get immediate info on next `steps. After this event just gone there will need to be a careful analysis with the legal team as the procedure is different top what everyone expected.

However I note that the suggestion earlier that we will see a trial date end of 2013 was not based on any hard information. Best to wait a little on that.
 
ManagerJosh said:
There is no evidence to suggest development has ceased.

There is no evidence to suggest Kier, Mike and Ashley has abandoned XenForo.

There is no evidence to suggest that the status quo will remain should the case be extended past January 2013.
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I think there's evidence but of course no proof :censored:
 
Harry Fox said:
Jake, how you said that the next court date is November 19th... What will this be for?
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Screen shot 2012-11-06 at 12.12.03 AM.webp


HWS said:
but there is a good chance that the trial date will be delayed until perhaps end of 2013.
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Source? I have read nothing about a trial delay in any recent documents.
 
ManagerJosh said:
There is no evidence to suggest development has ceased.
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1. For months their has been no release and their isn't update on 1.2.
2. Their Demo is down and it's not fixed since few weeks.

Any company looking for good sales will never keep their demo down for long time.

Both above are indication that development has been stopped till the lawsuit is sorted.
 
There is no evidence to suggest development has ceased.
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I'm sorry, I love the software and think it is great. It is a shame it has been put in the situation that it has been. I'm sticking with it but only because nothing else makes me happy right now. XenForo does what I need right now.

With that said, there is evidence that development has ceased because there hasn't been any at all. I'm not sticking around until the end of 2013 for xenForo to release another version. By that time, IPB will have caught up with features and performance.. or someone else will have.
 
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