Any good news? Please help to stop rumors...

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BGL said:
But it was the norm for XenForo developers when they were at vB. It was the norm for XenForo. From what I see right now at vB and IPB forums, it is the norm in the industry right now.



And I think that's what some, myself fer shure, disagree with based on industry history, the developers own history, XenForo history and industry norms. They are, in fact, under an obligation to communicate with their customer base via their support forum, as they did at vB, as they did in XenForo, as is expected at all the forum software companies.
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Um nooo it was not the norm for these developers to interact with the customers when they were at vB. That's what so many people griped about - their lack of communication. And now we have it going here, because unfortunately, they seem to be slipping back into that mold.
 
Peggy said:
Um nooo it was not the norm for these developers to interact with the customers when they were at vB. That's what so many people griped about - their lack of communication. And now we have it going here, because unfortunately, they seem to be slipping back into that mold.
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I remember seeing Paul, Kier, Floris, Wayne Luke and others often at VB.org....not so much VB.com......
 
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Cal said:
I remember seeing Paul, Kier, Floris, Wayne Luke and others often at VB.org....not so much VB.com......
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And Kier is the only developer in that group. At any rate, we're talking about the company forum, not the unofficial add-ons forum.
 
Deebs said:
Seriously, I do not give a **** about the support tickets. Mike, Kier, Fred can answer them. I care about the official announcements. The best programmers make the worst directors.
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I think all we(I) care about is a top notch product. If 1.2 is out in the next (few) months and is in a very good form, most of us would not give a damn about "communication failures" (if any) happened before. KAM probably know that very well. This is not an entertainment business. Having said that, I will start to panic if nothing is out in the next 3 months. By the way, please don't judge my communication skills, me no English speaker :LOL:, they are no marketing gurus (but who knows, that could be a strategy to get more attentions to the product!).
 
Peggy said:
Um nooo it was not the norm for these developers to interact with the customers when they were at vB.
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Hmm...Kier was lead developer at vB no? His messages are still all over the vB Forums. Current developers are on there now and on IPB's forums. XenForo developers were all over XenForo forums. Historical evidence seems to show it to be the norm and expected. Certainly the members here, probably mostly vB to XenForo converts, all seem to have that memory and expectation.
 
I'm sure Kier's posts are all over vB's forums... in intervals. Fact is, everyone consistently griped that the developers didn't communicate enough.
If you read the posts here, there are many who have said it's just like it was on vB - no communication, or very little.
Still others have said on this very forum, that what is happening now (developers gone silent) is reminiscent of the vB days.

The expectation on this forum, pretty much comes from the fact that for the first few months after opening this forum, the developers were very active post-ers.
Which is why the disappointment that they've stopped posting.

You've been a member here for only a couple of months, so you missed it all. ;)
 
BGL said:
Hmm...Kier was lead developer at vB no? His messages are still all over the vB Forums. Current developers are on there now and on IPB's forums. XenForo developers were all over XenForo forums. Historical evidence seems to show it to be the norm and expected. Certainly the members here, probably mostly vB to XenForo converts, all seem to have that memory and expectation.
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I think the point you may be missing is this. Folks like myself bought without even the slightest thought of how much time the developers spent on these boards! We (if I may speak for others) bought because of the community forming around it and the promises of the software which already exist.

It goes without saying that we all hope XF lives a long and profitable life....but, as they say, we have little power over that. Complaining is certainly not going to make much happen....

So, here we are. Your move. What ya wanna do? (not addressed to anyone, but to all).
 
craigiri said:
I think the point you may be missing is this. Folks like myself bought without even the slightest thought of how much time the developers spent on these boards!
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I always look at how much support the company provides via their support forums. Users helping out is good but having the company online is better. You see that on vB and IPB and, apparently, used to see it here.

craigiri said:
We (if I may speak for others) bought because of the community forming around it and the promises of the software which already exist.
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You might but consider that most will look at where the product (and their forums that they work so hard on) will be in six months, a year, two years.

craigiri said:
Complaining is certainly not going to make much happen....
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Constructive criticism should make a LOT happen in a progressive company that listens to its customers.

craigiri said:
So, here we are. Your move. What ya wanna do?
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I want to convince the company to go back to communicating with their clients and supporting their product in their support forum as they used to do at vB and here.
 
Peggy said:
I'm sure Kier's posts are all over vB's forums... in intervals. Fact is, everyone consistently griped that the developers didn't communicate enough.
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And now they don't communicate at all. Big change. Bad change.

Peggy said:
If you read the posts here, there are many who have said it's just like it was on vB - no communication, or very little.
Still others have said on this very forum, that what is happening now (developers gone silent) is reminiscent of the vB days.
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So why go back to that bad behavior? Especially if good communications with clients proved such a successful sales promotion?

Peggy said:
The expectation on this forum, pretty much comes from the fact that for the first few months after opening this forum, the developers were very active post-ers.
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For the entire life of the product up until a few months ago apparently.
 
although the action of some members such as Floris and Brogan raised up many questions in my mind, I do see a great future for this software.
And xf 1.2 would explain their absence....(y) several weeks left for the release ^-^
 
steven s said:
Spoiled? Maybe?
But that is what we were all looking for. A connection with the developers and community.
A kind of we are all in this together attitude.
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Although he's not talking about XF in this case, I often enjoy reading the opinion/feedback/vision of Scott Molinari (from vBulletin Germany). Like this one:

s.molinari;2300520 said:
A really good and professional support staff member is practically worth his or her weight in gold. It's just that some companies (too many) see support as a pure cost and not a benefit and see little opportunity in the knowledge and experience good support staff have. Some companies even have a fear of giving the support staff too much information about new developments or even involving them in the development of new products for fear of them blabbering off confidential information to customers. Where as, having support help with the development means a good flood of customers concerns could and most likely would be covered raising quality at a very early stage and the support staff, being part of the products creation, are doubly motivated to support them.

But, like I said, too many companies fail to see this potential.

Scott
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Interesting point of view (in relation to the 'we are all in this together' vision).

s.molinari;2301461 said:
Business is also built on relationships and although you don't have to be friends in business, any relationship should be built on pretty much the same basis as a friendship. The same goes for customer relationships too.

Scott
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The latter for me is an obvious open door. Nevertheless: for me personally, it's all about connection. Indeed as you said in your posting. In any important relationship it is about connecting with each other. Relationships are connections. And to introduce an open door myself: a connection is not alive when there is no communication.
 
Scott makes a good point.
<generally speaking>
I've worked in consumer repair service companies where the tech/support/parts people were on strict budgets whereas once someone complained to sales, they got whatever they wanted.
Companies underestimate the value of a support team. They are only looking to make the sale and support is just an expense.
 
I'm pretty bummed about Deebs being upset.
He's a real asset around here.
I've seen him provide lots of advice around here for free that would cost thousands if purchased.
 
steven s said:
Scott makes a good point.
<generally speaking>
I've worked in consumer repair service companies where the tech/support/parts people were on strict budgets whereas once someone complained to sales, they got whatever they wanted.
Companies underestimate the value of a support team. They are only looking to make the sale and support is just an expense.
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Yes, I experience every day what you are talking about. I work in an IT support department (of the government) myself and with our new management/organizational structure since a few years, IT support is being classified as 'just an expense' indeed. Whereas if there's one person who still has it's heart with the end-customers, it's me (and a fair amount of my colleagues). But both the end-customers (their employees) as our IT department are not being taken seriously that much anymore. That's exactly the reason why I want to leave (and step into a completely new world all together). That's also a reason why I felt for Paul (see here) and as I said before (I will not repeat myself too much anymore in postings): that situation worried and worries me quite a bit more then the lawsuit.

Open, honest communication binds people. In any relationship. I am with you in the 'all in this together' attitude, so it saddens me that -apparently- there are some difficulties over here that prevents people from connecting and thus building something together. This no judgement, just an observation.
 
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