XF 2.3 ?
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Lee
Well-known member
Yup…?
⭐ Alex ⭐
Well-known member
RIPAccording to my calculations, we'll start seeing "Have you seen...?" threads soon, followed by a release in Q2/Q3
1.0[8] March 8, 2011 N/A 1.1[10] November 22, 2011 259 days 1.2[12] July 30, 2013 616 days 1.3[17] March 11, 2014 224 days 1.4[19] September 9, 2014 182 days 1.5[21] August 18, 2015 343 days 2.0[23] November 28, 2017 833 days 2.1[25] January 30, 2019 428 days 2.2[27] September 29, 2020 608 days 2.3 N/A 499 days+
Version | Release date | Duration |
| 1.0[8] | March 8, 2011 | N/A |
| 1.1[10] | November 22, 2011 | 259 days |
| 1.2[12] | July 30, 2013 | 616 days |
| 1.3[17] | March 11, 2014 | 224 days |
| 1.4[19] | September 9, 2014 | 182 days |
| 1.5[21] | August 18, 2015 | 343 days |
| 2.0[23] | November 28, 2017 | 833 days |
| 2.1[25] | January 30, 2019 | 428 days |
| 2.2[27] | September 29, 2020 | 608 days |
| 2.3 | N/A | 796 days+ |
Miri
Well-known member
I have never seen a software around, with so few release versions, but with excellent and unequaled security and stability.
JulianD
Well-known member
Patch releases were not included in that table.
Frode789
Well-known member
In other words we will go longer, by some margin, for 2.2-2.3 than the delay between the major versions XF1-XF2.
Even if HYS starts to come out this december, we are looking at a realistic release (best case) of march 2023.
That's 2,5 years. For a single feature release.
Mendalla
Well-known member
Again, 2.5 years that saw the development and release of XF Cloud, so it is not like they have been idle over those years. If there had been nothing but maintenance releases in that time, I might sympathize with your position, but the cloud project was likely a major one and a big time suck. It was also quite necessary given where the world is headed. People who aren't IT pros like me aren't interested in messing about with networks and backup and such and a cloud lets them dump that on to the provider and focus on things like site design and moderation and adding features to their site (etc.).
I would almost be tempted to measure it from the release of XF Cloud, not the release of XF 2.2. That was likely as big, or bigger, a project than just a feature release.
(And, to be clear, I am not, and likely never will be, an XF Cloud customer but I get the reality behind it and support its existence)
digitalpoint
Well-known member
Welcome to how more or less all software works. Early versions tend to come out faster as the codebase is immature. The more mature it is, you tend to not have major version updates as often. As an example (the first example I could think of everyone would know and that would have an easily accessible version history), look at Microsoft Word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Microsoft_Word#Microsoft_Office
It started with new major versions coming out every year, then it was more like every 2 years and now it's closer to every 3 years.
For those focusing on the version number, I'd say it's better to focus specifically on things you want XenForo to do that it doesn't already do. Just saying, "I want a new major version, but I have no idea what features are missing or what could be in that version." It's not terribly helpful to the developers if there's something specific you are looking for if you don't tell them what it is.
But ya... anyway, welcome to how software maturity works.
It started with new major versions coming out every year, then it was more like every 2 years and now it's closer to every 3 years.
For those focusing on the version number, I'd say it's better to focus specifically on things you want XenForo to do that it doesn't already do. Just saying, "I want a new major version, but I have no idea what features are missing or what could be in that version." It's not terribly helpful to the developers if there's something specific you are looking for if you don't tell them what it is.
But ya... anyway, welcome to how software maturity works.
Nicolas FR
Well-known member
Whaat ? We can count together the number of suggestions that date back several years, acclaimed by users and of which no one knows if they have a chance of being even considered by the developers of XenForo. I want to read everything but to say that XF users only want a new version number and no new features does not correspond to reality.
If XF 2.3 takes so long to come out since version 2.2 it's not because the developers or users lack imagination for the future version, they would be a team of 20 developers 2.3 would have been out a long time ago. Personally, and since the beginning of this "mini controversy 2.3" it's not the fact that the version takes so long to come out that annoys me but the lack of communication. It's totally incomprehensible and it's borderline contempt.
sbj
Well-known member
I respect your opinion a lot @digitalpoint since you are one of the few people who is skill-wise on the same level as the core developers. So your view has actual meaning to it but shame on me I still have to disagree with you, if I may with all respect.
Bringing up Word as an example is not very meaningful. Word is de facto the number 1 used software for at least 2 decades in its "niche". Obviously this "niche" is not a small niche, basically every household, every work environment, every place uses it. They dominate the world they are in. OpenOffice is a good alternative because it is free but that's it pretty much.
Let's look at Adobe products for example, say Adobe Photoshop. They pretty much release every year a new version. And they are also the number 1 product, de facto the only relevant product in commercial use. Be it Photoshop, After Effects, Illustrator, Premiere etc., all are used as the go-to tool from professionals, in universities, in workplaces. They pretty much bring new improvements with every release every year. Contrary to your argument about software maturity.
So, you see, if we want to talk about software maturity and release cycles, one can find examples for both sides.
Now, let me go back to why Word is not a good example. As I said, it is dominating its niche. So, one could say they already do whatever is there to do already. So it is normal to not release every year a new version. The question is, is XF in the same place? Is XF dominating the forum software world? No, it has at least 3 major counterparts with significant marketshare. But even if XF was the only one left, in the grand scheme of things (social media), forum softwares are basically inconsequential, they simply don't matter or have any impact at all.
So, is XF "mature"? That is the question we need to ask here.
And seeing its relevancy and impact, it is not mature enough. It doesn't dominate like Word does, so it can't afford to be stiff for a long time like it does. First, be as impactful, be mature like Word, then it can be welcomed to software maturity.
Then my other argument is that XF is not that mature as you think it is. The core is solid, safe but a lot of areas are unpolished, untouched. The trophy system is basically underutilized, so are the tags, custom thread fields. Attachment system is extremely outdated. Social media integration non existent. Half of users still can't get push notifications for how long now? I believe since 2014. The UI is outdated, clunky. Does anyone use profile posts? And so on.
In the last 10 years basically, when did the developers every listen to the userbase? There are thousands of suggestions for 10 years now. It is clear that we have almost no influence about what will be implemented and when it will be. I can explicitly write down what exactly in the attachments system, criteria system, fields system etc. are missing. I cannot go and say "admins have upload limits for images 10 mb for png or jpg, but users 2mb". For videos different upload limits. I cannot drag and drop multiple attachments. I cannot edit attachment names. There is no history for attachments, thread fields. There are many user criteria missing to enable stuff. And so on. What difference does it make?
Sorry to rant but today I got bad news. There is a card game I love, called Gwent (maybe people know it from the Witcher games). They announced yesterday (I got to read it today) that they are shutting down the game and going maintenance mode in 2024. I see the same sentiments here on XF. The devs over there basically put on their masks and pretented like everything is okay for the past 3 years. They treated the userbase like on here "we'll see, we have a lot going on, we will look into it, make a suggestion" and they never worked on the stuff and finally ditched the game. I feel like the past years XF is doing the same. They just don't care. There is no connection with the userbase. The one and only thread I opened to address this issue was closed. It got shut down pretty fast. I don't buy into the "if you don't tell them what it is" option anymore. Tell them where? How? Please explain.
Bringing up Word as an example is not very meaningful. Word is de facto the number 1 used software for at least 2 decades in its "niche". Obviously this "niche" is not a small niche, basically every household, every work environment, every place uses it. They dominate the world they are in. OpenOffice is a good alternative because it is free but that's it pretty much.
Let's look at Adobe products for example, say Adobe Photoshop. They pretty much release every year a new version. And they are also the number 1 product, de facto the only relevant product in commercial use. Be it Photoshop, After Effects, Illustrator, Premiere etc., all are used as the go-to tool from professionals, in universities, in workplaces. They pretty much bring new improvements with every release every year. Contrary to your argument about software maturity.
So, you see, if we want to talk about software maturity and release cycles, one can find examples for both sides.
Now, let me go back to why Word is not a good example. As I said, it is dominating its niche. So, one could say they already do whatever is there to do already. So it is normal to not release every year a new version. The question is, is XF in the same place? Is XF dominating the forum software world? No, it has at least 3 major counterparts with significant marketshare. But even if XF was the only one left, in the grand scheme of things (social media), forum softwares are basically inconsequential, they simply don't matter or have any impact at all.
So, is XF "mature"? That is the question we need to ask here.
And seeing its relevancy and impact, it is not mature enough. It doesn't dominate like Word does, so it can't afford to be stiff for a long time like it does. First, be as impactful, be mature like Word, then it can be welcomed to software maturity.
Then my other argument is that XF is not that mature as you think it is. The core is solid, safe but a lot of areas are unpolished, untouched. The trophy system is basically underutilized, so are the tags, custom thread fields. Attachment system is extremely outdated. Social media integration non existent. Half of users still can't get push notifications for how long now? I believe since 2014. The UI is outdated, clunky. Does anyone use profile posts? And so on.
In the last 10 years basically, when did the developers every listen to the userbase? There are thousands of suggestions for 10 years now. It is clear that we have almost no influence about what will be implemented and when it will be. I can explicitly write down what exactly in the attachments system, criteria system, fields system etc. are missing. I cannot go and say "admins have upload limits for images 10 mb for png or jpg, but users 2mb". For videos different upload limits. I cannot drag and drop multiple attachments. I cannot edit attachment names. There is no history for attachments, thread fields. There are many user criteria missing to enable stuff. And so on. What difference does it make?
Sorry to rant but today I got bad news. There is a card game I love, called Gwent (maybe people know it from the Witcher games). They announced yesterday (I got to read it today) that they are shutting down the game and going maintenance mode in 2024. I see the same sentiments here on XF. The devs over there basically put on their masks and pretented like everything is okay for the past 3 years. They treated the userbase like on here "we'll see, we have a lot going on, we will look into it, make a suggestion" and they never worked on the stuff and finally ditched the game. I feel like the past years XF is doing the same. They just don't care. There is no connection with the userbase. The one and only thread I opened to address this issue was closed. It got shut down pretty fast. I don't buy into the "if you don't tell them what it is" option anymore. Tell them where? How? Please explain.
digitalpoint
Well-known member
Right, I'm not saying XenForo development is exactly blazing fast. I'm just saying that the version number is irrelevant. They could rename 2.2.12 to 2.3 or 3.0 and it doesn't mean anything if the features are the same.
And ya, I'm right there with you on the suggestions. I have suggestions from more than a decade ago that are just in limbo (not denied, not implemented, etc.): https://xenforo.com/community/forums/xenforo-suggestions.18/?starter_id=47
And most of my suggestions that had something assigned to them, most were "Lack of interest" (although a good number that were flagged as "Last of interest" end up showing up later versions of XenForo, so I know it wasn't too bad of a suggestion when it made it's way into the core anyway.. hah: https://xenforo.com/community/forums/closed-suggestions.15/?starter_id=47
Thankfully, XenForo has a fantastic framework that allows third-parties to do deep/seamless integration of features that aren't included in the default software. To me, that is the most important feature they have and the most important one to build on. But that's just my opinion.
Ya, I should have been more specific... I was more talking about XenForo has an underlying framework (because that's how I use it). Things like the trophy system or other individual features don't even make much sense to me to even exist by default. If it were up to me, the "forum" feature wouldn't even be core and would simply be an add-on. hahaha
sbj
Well-known member
I mean, that is probably the side aspect of being able to code everything. You look at it like if the framework is good, which is of course. But the 99% of us can't work with that. We rely on what we see, not what could be there. You can just code whatever you need, we can't. You see framework, you see endless of features you can just implement. We don't work like that
.
digitalpoint
Well-known member
Oh, you mean XenForo isn’t just built to be my personal framework? Lame.
I mean, that is probably the side aspect of being able to code everything. You look at it like if the framework is good, which is of course. But the 99% of us can't work with that. We rely on what we see, not what could be there. You can just code whatever you need, we can't. You see framework, you see endless of features you can just implement. We don't work like that
Frode789
Well-known member
Many here DO actually have features that they feel are missing/lacking. At least I have talked about important changes I would like to see to the core, some of whom is beyond the functionality to be expected of a traditional addon.
There are tons of suggestions dying in the suggestions forum, some for a decade. They are just sitting there, for years and years without any response from the developers. But I guess people don't know what they want..
I don't give a flying fruit what version number the software is. What I do care about is what vision the developers have in terms of this software for the future, and if we will see some of the improvements that are being asked about. Specific features and design/UI ideas, not just "I want new stuff". 2,5 years IS a long time in this business, and times are changing.. If users want to invest more in this platform, better communication and a proper direction forward is needed. So we can weight future renewals, financing custom addons and so on on the platform. If the answer is "mostly nothing substantial for the next 5 years", then that is also fine. XF is a solid product today, but then some of us may want to venture elsewhere to other softwares.
@sbj Adobe company they release new version with new features every year because there are a lot of competitors, so they have to be on top, and keep money flowing. But Let’s not forget they are the best In their niche, I’m using their software a bit often.
When comes to forums, there are not a lot of competitors, you have Invision boards which I’ve played a bit in a demo, and was impressed, but didn’t like the design, and you have xenforo, them 2 are the main forums used by admins. Lets say if there was other 10 forums companies who will did good job, then developers will put more work and effort to keep their Customers happy.
We as admins we have to keep forums competing with social media sites just to keep members coming back. What I see is, some of members on xenforo are getting frustrating because of lack of communication and these ”upcoming weeks “ turned into months.
The way I see is, @XenForo team has implemented some nice features which that was the reason to wait that long, or because lack of new customers, or maybe dropping income, they don’t show anymore that much interest towards developing the forum software. And that’s life, maybe they have other project which brings them more money, everyone will look for the better future, and xenforo team are not an exception.
My opinion is @XenForo is a great software for well established forums, however for new Forums , what they got in the box, isn’t enough.
When comes to forums, there are not a lot of competitors, you have Invision boards which I’ve played a bit in a demo, and was impressed, but didn’t like the design, and you have xenforo, them 2 are the main forums used by admins. Lets say if there was other 10 forums companies who will did good job, then developers will put more work and effort to keep their Customers happy.
We as admins we have to keep forums competing with social media sites just to keep members coming back. What I see is, some of members on xenforo are getting frustrating because of lack of communication and these ”upcoming weeks “ turned into months.
The way I see is, @XenForo team has implemented some nice features which that was the reason to wait that long, or because lack of new customers, or maybe dropping income, they don’t show anymore that much interest towards developing the forum software. And that’s life, maybe they have other project which brings them more money, everyone will look for the better future, and xenforo team are not an exception.
My opinion is @XenForo is a great software for well established forums, however for new Forums , what they got in the box, isn’t enough.
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