XF 2.0 | There needs to be better management of copyright notices from addons

[DarkGizmo]

Most add-on developers don't mind re-arranged placement of their copyrights as long as they remain intact and are visible. I reached out to the creator of XenPorta 2 Pro about his copyright because I felt it was in a rather annoying spot on my forums and he gave me permission to put it in the copyright area where the Xenforo copyright is without any issues. Developers work hard on these add-ons and support your favorite forum software, they have every right to put a copyright of their choosing within the add-on.

 

[Donny]

I agree.

It'd be cool if they actually all were put in the actual copyright area though. Which I think the thread is mainly about. I'm sure most wouldn't mind their copyright info moved to where people expect to see their copyright info.

 

[rainmotorsports]

Most add-on developers don't mind re-arranged placement of their copyrights as long as they remain intact and are visible. I reached out to the creator of XenPorta 2 Pro about his copyright because I felt it was in a rather annoying spot on my forums and he gave me permission to put it in the copyright area where the Xenforo copyright is without any issues. Developers work hard on these add-ons and support your favorite forum software, they have every right to put a copyright of their choosing within the add-on.

He was cool with it for the original XP as well. I never bothered to ask for 2 but I also don't think we have gone live or tried to move it yet with 2.

That's the main thing it's the placement. On XP1 for example we ran a 3 column layout and this causes the copyright to end up two thirds down the page since the content and the sidebar split at that point. Many other developers used that location as well. Would be nice for 2.0 to have a quick and easy way to not only place copyright notices but if yours is the same for each add-on to prevent duplicates.

 

[DarkGizmo]

He was cool with it for the original XP as well. I never bothered to ask for 2 but I also don't think we have gone live or tried to move it yet with 2.

That's the main thing it's the placement. On XP1 for example we ran a 3 column layout and this causes the copyright to end up two thirds down the page since the content and the sidebar split at that point. Many other developers used that location as well. Would be nice for 2.0 to have a quick and easy way to not only place copyright notices but if yours is the same for each add-on to prevent duplicates.

Yeah it's in the XenPorta2_Footer template, just remove it entirely from there and place the text in the proper area in the footer template for XF. Easy.

 

[W.D]

I think you are confusing correlation and causation. vBulletin has exploits and is searchable via Google does not mean other things searchable via Google are.

I'm pretty sure vBulletin gets hacked so easily because they have poor developers building it to begin with. And as far as using Google search to find what a site has installed, only the worst hackers would need that. I can tell you the exact version any installation of vBulletin has with or without branding. Not even just the major version, but the specific version. Let's say for example I wanted to know vBulletin installations at exactly version 5.1.2 that have been running it in the last 90 days... it's a simple query

mysql> SELECT domain FROM misc_data WHERE name = 'vbulletin_version' AND value = 512 AND date > (UNIX_TIMESTAMP() - 86400 * 90) ORDER BY domain;
+--------------------+
| domain             |
+--------------------+
| afiliadosninja.com |
| aicel.it           |
| ausph.com          |
| kyokushin4life.com |
| xedap.org          |
+--------------------+
5 rows in set (0.00 sec)

I think by now most people know vBulletin is a risk on it's own. And there's many ways to find a vB version. I.e JavaScript, The v= in the files etc. There's also other ways such as opening the admincp url if known and not protected and so on. But from recent researching of vBulletin hackings and also uncovering private hacking tools targeting vBulletin installations, half the time they simply search the footer text on google or any exploitable plugins. The one I found last month harvested vBulletin urls via footer text found on Google and then auto injected a backdoor within the installation and downloaded the usertable. This is why I said leaving backlinks is a risk in some cases.

It's not always a risk no, But for me I want the least amount of information about my site known the better.

If the goal of addon developers was to maximize installations, of course they are going to do it differently. It's fairly common for attribution removal to cost more than the product itself (XenForo branding removal is $250 on a $140 product for example).

In the case of my search addon you used above, the less people that use it the better as far as I'm concerned. I make no money from it and it just takes support time. The only reason I make it available because it's borderline a *must have* for larger sites. The required attribution absolutely is intended as an annoyance factor to have a barrier of entry so not everyone uses it. The addon is free with an optional $100 branding removal fee. The other option would be to make it $100 with no branding, at which point you are kind of mean by blocking people who *need* it, but can't afford it.

And for the sites that actually need it, even a cost of $1,000 for it would be realistic (I'd have paid $5,000 for a license for it if someone else made it... it would have saved me time developing something that allows our site to function at scale).

Agreed, Dev's want as many installations as possible. I wasn't targting you by the way, I just needed a quick example of my security point (And I wasn't claiming your plugin was exploitable.). But then again you also mentioned yours are free which I find totally fine here. You charge a high fee for removal which is understandable. You view on leaving the link also is a fair point. Maybe they do that to make us not buy haha.

In XenForo's case the $140 price is really fair. The copyright removal is rather high but at the end of the day XenForo's aim was to target a bigger audience by offering a cheaper and better system for less then rivals.

I guess the reason I find it annoying having high plugin fee's and high removal fee's is some devs give up and then you're out of pocket more. But saying that, Some dev's that don't include backlinks are just as bad here so it's 50/50.

Well, as you are probably aware, the best solution is also the cheapest and requires the least work (none). Simply don't use addons that don't bring enough value to you that warrants whatever their branding removal cost is. Not all addons are for everyone.

I can't speak for other addon developers, but for myself, some of my addons (like the search one you referenced), the attribution link has the sole intent of being an annoying barrier of entry so less people use it. Less people using it means less support/work on my end, but also giving people the option that actually DO need it (but have no money) a way to use it.

Agreed, And sorry for using your link as an example. I just needed something I could search quickly for my reply.

We've gone really offtopic here though so I'll leave this as my last reply for now.

 

[Xaices]

© 20XX-20XX Your Website Name. | Website Credits

The Website Credits Link takes you to a webpage with a complete list of all Add-Ons our outsourced work on the website.

It would include the following:

Author / Company Name (hyperlink to their website) | Name of Add-on or work completed | description of add-on or work completed

Could even add in a thumbnail Logo beside the Author Company name.

I am not disputing that A copyright should not be included on the site, however, I do not believe the copyright notice should impact my users UIX/UEX. The website owner should dictate where and how CREDITS are showcased.

The footer inclusion is an archaic industry standard, that needs to be done away with. A credits page designed and style to match the website should showcase all those involved and well should link back to the authors own website.

Just my opinion.

 

[Paul B]

The website owner should dictate where and how CREDITS are showcased.

They can by either:

a) paying to remove the copyright
b) paying to have a custom add-on developed
c) developing the add-on themselves

 

[l3ta]

If I buy a Tesla, I want ppl to know it's a Tesla. I wouldn't go to Elon and say, All right, Elon, I bought your car, now remove all the emblems lol. Xenforo is the Tesla of forum software

 

[tajhay]

I purposely support devs who choose not to display footer essays. Some of the copyrights are disgraceful. I wouldn't want to be linking my forum to a an individual convicted of heinous crimes in a certain developer's case.

Sad reality is most of his customers probably aren't even aware.

 

[l3ta]

Oh. I hope it is not related to the addons being used in some nefarious way

 

[HWS]

The website owner should dictate where and how CREDITS are showcased.

If you license a software to be used at your web site the developer of the software "dictates" if and where credits have to be shown. If you don't like it, do not license the software or pay for branding removal. Most developers reduce the licensing costs massively in exchange for showing the branding.

 

[Ozzy47]

If I buy a Tesla, I want ppl to know it's a Tesla. I wouldn't go to Elon and say, All right, Elon, I bought your car, now remove all the emblems lol. Xenforo is the Tesla of forum software

That is a bad analogy, you do not own the software or any addons you purchase, they are licensed for use as per the licensing agreement, if that includes branding, then so be it.

 

[Mr. Jinx]

The Website Credits Link takes you to a webpage with a complete list of all Add-Ons our outsourced work on the website.

I like this idea. A few months ago there was this same discussion, but not everyone was happy with it

$250 to remove brand removal?? Is this true?

Before I buy XF, I saw that on top of the $140 licensing fee, it's an additional $250 to remove the copyright brand: " Branding Removal - $250* This allows you to remove the visible XenForo copyright notice from all pages." It seems a bit high, since I'm already dropping $140 upfront Do you...

xenforo.com

 

[Xaices]

If you license a software to be used at your web site the developer of the software "dictates" if and where credits have to be shown. If you don't like it, do not license the software or pay for branding removal. Most developers reduce the licensing costs massively in exchange for showing the branding.

I always pay for branding removal. However, if there was just a credits page I wouldn't, and the creators would get their advertisement.

The issue is like the picture in the OP, branding can show up anywhere because there are no standards or set parameters of how branding is to be displayed, which in a lot of cases breaks the website owners UIX/UEX.

Honestly, if branding was clean and neat, I probably wouldn't even bother with paying for removal in the first place or have mentioned the idea of a website credits page. However, in a lot of cases, it is not clean and neat, it is an eyesore.

 

[HWS]

I always pay for branding removal. However, if there was just a credits page I wouldn't, and the creators would get their advertisement.

If XenForo would force developers to such a "credits" page, most developers would no longer discount their products with branding resulting in much higher prices for add-ons.

I agree that branding is sometimes not very pleasing to the eye (as is the case with most web advertisements). But then again, you can refuse the discount for it and pay for non branded products.

 

[Dad.]

If XenForo would force developers to such a "credits" page, most developers would no longer discount their products with branding resulting in much higher prices for add-ons.

Having been selling digital products for around 15 years now, I can honestly say the link in the footer garners very little value to add-on/theme developers. I used to do it for SEO value, but Google knows the difference now. Back in the day, sure. These days, well, TH gives free branding removal. I haven't checked traffic from it in a while, but I don't think its remotely significant.

For XenForo itself I think its far more significant.

 

[HWS]

Having been selling digital products for around 15 years now, I can honestly say the link in the footer garners very little value to add-on/theme developers. I used to do it for SEO value, but Google knows the difference now. Back in the day, sure. These days, well, TH gives free branding removal. I haven't checked traffic from it in a while, but I don't think its remotely significant.

I know that some (mostly very busy) developers have no discounts for branding. So all that said would not be applicable for them. ;-)

 

[Dad.]

I know that some (mostly very busy) developers have no discounts for branding. So all that said would not be applicable for them. ;-)

I mostly mean that those developers probably get their business from other avenues. Here for example, or other far more valuable means.

 

[HWS]

I mostly mean that those developers probably get their business from other avenues. Here for example, or other far more valuable means.

I don't doubt that. I know that revenue from branding links is almost unnoticeable.

But branding is the (not perfect way) for many developers to be able to reduce the product price for their customers and name the difference "advertising costs" in their books. As with all advertising, it sometimes has no direct effect in producing sales. Sometimes you pay for simply promoting your brand name.

 

[Chernabog]

One of the most frustrating aspects of trying to put together a nice looking site with neatly presented information is the way that different addon developers add their copyright notices in random places. I remember it was really frustrating on vB and it's no different in Xenforo.

I think with XF 2.0 there's an opportunity to fix this. There should be a section provided in the footer called credits (or whatever) where addon developers can put their copyright notices.

This will make life easier for style developers, webmasters and addon makers. Also it makes more sense because addon developers will be getting their copyright into the right place for site users to see it.

I've added an image below to give an idea of what I mean...


View attachment 99293

Once you purchase an add on it should be your decision whether or not any credits are displayed - especially, if not certainly, with any PAID add on. You should not have to pay more to remove third party branding.