XF 2.4 XenForo 2.4 status and what's new under the hood?

Where are we?​

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TL;DR: We're working hard to release XenForo 2.4 ASAP, but it's taking longer than expected due to scope changes and strategic decisions to wait for certain upstream developments that will benefit the long-term roadmap. Here's an analogy to explain why:

Software development is like planning a cross-country expedition with multiple destinations.

When you set out for version 2.4, you're not just driving to the next town over. You're charting a course through unknown territory with several strategic stops planned along the way - each representing a major milestone or feature release.

But the challenge is the landscape keeps changing along the journey.
  • New roads open up (better technologies emerge)
  • Bridges get washed out (dependencies break or become obsolete)
  • You discover scenic routes that would benefit all future travellers (opportunities for architectural improvements)
  • Weather conditions shift (market demands or user needs evolve)
  • Your vehicle needs unexpected maintenance (technical debt must be addressed)
You can't just focus on reaching the immediate next stop. You must consider how each decision affects the entire journey ahead. Taking a shortcut to reach 2.4 faster might leave you stranded when trying to reach 3.0, 4.0 or even 5.0.

This is why scope changes occur: experienced developers are constantly recalibrating the route based on new information, ensuring the expedition can successfully reach not just the next destination, but all the strategic waypoints that follow.

The delays aren't detours, rather they're course corrections that keep the long-term journey viable.

To be slightly less cryptic, these are some of the specific challenges we have faced along the way:

A new Tiptap version is coming​

When we announced that Tiptap is coming to XenForo 2.4 it was 95% complete, and we then took a bit of a pause to work on other projects, which we have talked about since and will be discussing in this thread. Since then, Tiptap have announced Tiptap V3 which is currently in beta. Given how core the editor is to the forum experience, it makes a lot of sense to ship XenForo 2.4 with Tiptap V3 rather than Tiptap V2 as originally planned. While the changes involved are not too extensive, we also don't want to ship 2.4 with a dependency that is still in beta and subject to change. While we are not planning to wait for Tiptap V3 to be stable, necessarily, we do at least want to give it a little bit more time so we have a higher degree of confidence that we're shipping a stable editing experience.

We started talking about a rewrite (again)​

While this is not currently the direction we've decided to go in, it's responsible for us to at least consider all routes available to us to help us reach our destination.

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After nearly 8 years since the release of XenForo 2.0, many of the technologies we use are showing their age, many of the decisions we made have started to slow us down more than we would like, and as a framework, XenForo becomes a less productive framework to work with. The solution to this problem can be to start from scratch, but we have ultimately decided that this is not something we need to do at this stage.

Instead, over the next few versions, including 2.4, we will be attempting to make iterative architectural changes to the framework so that we all have greater tools at our disposal to improve both the developer and user experience, particularly focusing on the implementation of developer tools and features that have become commonplace in other frameworks, such as Laravel.

Some of our best features are simply not finished​

There are one or two features that we see requested consistently from customers in our community forums and feedback channels, and we're excited to confirm they are coming in 2.4! However, it serves no one well if we release such highly-anticipated features before they are ready and before they have the usual level of quality, polish, and extensibility you would expect from a XenForo release. We'd rather take the extra time to get them right than rush them out and disappoint users with a subpar implementation that requires immediate patches or lacks the flexibility for customisation. We'll be sharing exciting details about what these features are and how they work in the coming weeks, so stay tuned!

We can't keep up!​

I just counted and there are about 15 features that have been merged or are pending to be merged into XF 2.4 that we haven't announced yet. Some of these are smaller and aren't worthy of a dedicated HYS of their own (so they'll probably be rolled into a "miscellaneous" HYS or two), and some of these are going to be mentioned below, but while we have been "cooking" (as the kids say these days) it has meant that things like code reviews, and writing HYS posts hasn't been easy to balance. There is also potentially more stuff coming from generous contributions from esteemed developers such as @Xon and @digitalpoint, assuming we have time to implement (otherwise they will wait for... a future version).


With all of that now being said, while 2.4 is taking longer than we wanted, we have been busy and we are very much nearing the end of development.

And, while disappointing (to all of us) it is important to maintain perspective. XenForo 2.2 was released in September 2020. XenForo 2.3 was released nearly four years later. XenForo 2.4 is not 3 more years away.

But, you clicked this to find out what's new, right? So let's go.
 
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If you run a 'tech' like site with acronyms, having the ability to index 2 and 3 char words is a game changer in terms of searching.
This used to help without enhanced search.


EDIT

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You can use * to help with results on Xenforo.com
 
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Do you log what your users search for ?
no, but i don't need to.

I know that if i'm looking for something relevant to a product line, it's a 3 character, non-english term. if that gets dropped, you lose the specificity and then you get EVERY type of that widget you looked for, 99% of which are irrelevant to the user.
 
1. need to add multi domain option in to core, someone made paid addon for it already
2. remove 301 redirects from post & make proper cannonical link to thread id, because posts also have important infos, but 301 kills them

after these every forum can get more indexed pages & more trafic.

for those smart idiots who are implementing AI bots & addons to kill their forums, stop it before it is too late!
it looks like new unknown devs from invision creating AI addons for XF to kill customers forum
 
1. need to add multi domain option in to core, someone made paid addon for it already
2. remove 301 redirects from post & make proper cannonical link to thread id, because posts also have important infos, but 301 kills them

after these every forum can get more indexed pages & more trafic.

for those smart idiots who are implementing AI bots & addons to kill their forums, stop it before it is too late!
it looks like new unknown devs from invision creating AI addons for XF to kill customers forum
Okay, but you have to wait in a queue. We're standing by for XF 2.4 :)
 
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for those smart idiots who are implementing AI bots & addons to kill their forums, stop it before it is too late!
it looks like new unknown devs from invision creating AI addons for XF to kill customers forum

I agree. I see a number of AI plugins that allow guests to generate some load on an AI service in a way that is not rate limited.
If you pay your AI provider by the token this is asking to get killed financially.

People need to strongly weigh those costs or consider building their own localhosted AI hardware.
 
AI is not effective on real time information & will never be. it is not a human brain.
example: I have mobile phones forum, technician ask how to remove google account on android 15 devices, it has beed 1 year now, AI does not know how to, at all, untill someone very professional writes 100% method & instruction on each AI database, but there is not!
 
So, the only update urgently need before XF 3, is to disallow or allow all known AI bots.
CloudFlare will block them as I understand it and would be a better approach. For Xenforo to do so is going to be a game of whack-a-mole and someone like CloudFlare is better positioned to play that game since they can update continuously. If Xenforo included such a feature, within weeks if not days, new ones would appear that aren't "known" to it, forcing continuous updates. CloudFlare likely already has that capability.
 
The best idea will be creatind thread here & post all AI bots IP addresses, we can ban them,
but I got plenty of them as user. I think they have changed the method of work, to bypass cloudflare
 
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The best idea will be creatind thread here & post all AI bots IP addresses, we can ban them,
but I got plenty of them as user. I think they have changed the method of work, to bypass cloudflare
As I said, you'd be playing whack-a-mole. Block this IP and a day later, another bot (or the same one) pops up from a different one. They mostly run in the cloud, not on static servers, so it is easy for them to move around. Let the pros like CloudFlare deal with that game. Yes, bots may be finding ways around them but they will be working to plug those holes and will be far better at doing so than anyone here or on their own. And they can do it once and protect all their users rather than dozens or hundreds of people scrambling to update their block lists every time something changes.
 
As I said, you'd be playing whack-a-mole. Block this IP and a day later, another bot (or the same one) pops up from a different one. They mostly run in the cloud, not on static servers, so it is easy for them to move around. Let the pros like CloudFlare deal with that game. Yes, bots may be finding ways around them but they will be working to plug those holes and will be far better at doing so than anyone here or on their own. And they can do it once and protect all their users rather than dozens or hundreds of people scrambling to update their block lists every time something changes.

The fail2ban setup i use could easily be ported to PHP and become part of Xenforo.. identifying individual bots and cultivating a manual banlist is rarely necessary and an easy way to identify bots by hit count and behavior could be provided so that cultivating the manual banlist is easier than usual. This system is better at identifying bots and banning them since it has information from inside the server ( cloudflare cannot use this information by design ). It would only require an update once or twice a year.

The upside of this approach is less bots than cloudflare setups, no reliance on a third party ( if their system breaks, your site breaks ), and privacy.
Downsides? none. fail2ban is written in python but it's very fast. PHP is 3-4 times faster than Python so the PHP port should be just as quick, even if it doesn't use Linux' iptables mechanism ( very fast and low level ) to enforce the ban.

It is actually feasible to pack protection into Xenforo.

What would be a workable substitute for this is to provide some 'best practices' to self hosted and cloud customers for securing against AI scrapers. For example, provide a known good cloudflare configuration so that everyone

This kind of protection is no longer optional for self hosted software... so it should be one of the batteries that is included.
 
My site is within a few % of the size of Xenforo.com and here's where we're at with my fail2ban setup:

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I get about 90% elimination of bots. My banlist is often in the thousands of IPs. We are ranked high on google, so we attract a horde of AI bots.
You could build a better system than this in PHP ( which can collect much more signals of bot activity ) and get 95% elimination or better.
So yeah, effective defense could be packed into Xenforo. it's possible.
 
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My site is within a few % of the size of Xenforo.com and here's where we're at with my fail2ban setup:
Mine is (with 2.5xx Members) a tiny fraction of a fraction of your's , let alone XF. .

Yet:
your forum right now (with 78.0xx members):
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Ratio members online : guests: 1 : 59
Ratio guests : total members: 1: 27,6
Ratio members online : total members: 1 : 1.625

XF right now (with 190.000 members):
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Ratio members online : guests: 1 : 163
Ratio guests : total members: 1:34
Ratio members online : total members: 1 : 5.588

my forum right now (with 2.5xx Members):
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Ratio members online : guests: 1 : 1,6
Ratio guests : total members: 1 : 125
Ratio members online : total members: 1 : 208

Either nobody likes my forum or my manual approach against bots works (though it is very time intensive and thus does not scale). ;)
 
XF currently has 5000+ guests so this shows how AI bots are affecting everyone.
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Japp, I reported this months ago at Xenforo. AI Bot Scraping is happening all over and its not good for boards.

I had to code my own solution ;)

 
The AI scraper bot problem does scale to how much content you have and how much search engine exposure you have.

Mo' content = mo' problems
Sure. Your Forum has:

Threads 92.447
Messages 1.606.537
Members 78,031

XF Forums has

Threads 216,628
Messages 1,701,660
Members 190,355

So by the number of messages your forum is the same size than XFs, by the number of threads half the size and by the number of users ab bit less than half the size (1 guest per 571 Messages vs. 1:306), based on the number of threads it is roughly in the same ballpark: 1:32 vs. 1:39

Mine ist young (just three years old) and tiny:

Threads 3.252
Messages 43.275
Members 2.566

Yet I do have an issue with bots and I did have a much bigger one until I brought them down massively. Currently 1guest/2150 messages and 1guest/162 threads. And yes, I do have content on my forums and a pretty decent search engine visibility as well.

The thing is it is not easy to compare, the more as the number of genuine guests may vastly differ between forums. Mine typically had 20-50 guests before the bot runs started, then it went up to 200-600 (and even more during exzessive bot runs). I brought them down (until now reliably) to about the level that I had before the bot runs (but there are still bots floating around my forum, as it is tricky to detect some of them).
 
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