XF 2.0 What's new in XenForo 2.0

Lukas W. · Oct 27, 2017

ibaker said:
I mentioned it in the demo site not long after it was put up so that is nearly a year then

He didn't say it was never mentioned.

Either way, I've also negatively noticed this behaviour a few times already, but wasn't annoyed enough by it to complain. It is just a simple click, albeit I have to perform it everytime.

I'd open up a suggestion for that. But just to throw it in: I'd rather let the user decide for himself what he wants instead of forcing a global setting upon him, so offering this on the preferences page might improve usability and satisfaction.

Recep Baltaş · Oct 27, 2017

Any Beta this week? I think we will see an RC next week...

Kerby · Oct 27, 2017

If that search checkbox thing is a big issue for you, you can create a template modification that sets checkbox active in threads.

ibaker · Oct 28, 2017

Kerby said:
If that search checkbox thing is a big issue for you, you can create a template modification that sets checkbox active in threads.

The same could be said to have it default to everything...better to leave it as it is now for all users to ensure continuity and better user satisfaction and get those few that want an "Everything" default to change their template. Who is being listened to here...a few soapbox admin people or the thousands and thousands of actual xenforo site users?

Kevin · Oct 28, 2017

ibaker said:
Who is being listened to here...a few soapbox admin people or the thousands and thousands of actual xenforo site users?

Where did those "thousands and thousands of actual xenforo site user" post indicating their preference?

ibaker · Oct 28, 2017

On one of my own sites some time ago when I was designing my site to suit there needs. I gave them a chance to design exactly everything they wanted from the ground up. I set up a default XF site on a spare domain where they joined in and discussed everything, every colour, every space, every font, every function, every addon etc etc etc...the site is for them, not me. One of the areas of discussion was the Search function which is one big element that differentiates forums from social media. One thing that did come out of the discussion on site searching was the ability to seach by less than 4 characters hence why my sites now use the XF enhanced search addon and much more. One of my sites www.recreationalflying.com was the outcome of the users power to define exactly what they wanted including the different menu system and much more.

Unfortunately once the site was created on their specs the development site was no longer needed so was removed but rest assured the users wanted the search as it is now. For v2 I have again set up a demo site which the users will again define and whilst it is still early days I will bet anyone $10 that they will say the same things including the canning of the new search style...been there done that before. In fact a lot of them are saying don't touch the site as it is perfect, afterall they designed it.

Wildcat Media · Oct 28, 2017

Chris D said:
You could do this with CSS (probably preferable) or you could just change the title of the tab in the navigation system and add the documented Font Awesome 4 markup:

View attachment 157866

That would look something like this:

View attachment 157867

@Chris D, is it possible to do this for "Convert URLs to page titles" somehow? I tried this, but just had the HTML appear. Otherwise, I think I will have to go with doing this in EXTRA.LESS as I have done in the past.

EDIT: I added this to EXTRA.LESS and it appears to work...

CSS:

/* Icon behind external visitors links */
a.link--external:after {
    font-family:'FontAwesome';
    content: "\f08e";
    padding-left: 3px;
}

RobinHood · Oct 29, 2017

I much prefer the new global search, start wide by default and refine it if you need to.

If you want a context sensitive search that defaults to threads when inside them you could create a mod add an additional thread search icon next to 'Jump to New' and 'Unwatch' buttons at the top of the thread.

ibaker · Oct 29, 2017

Why not have it the way it is now, less impact to users, better continuity for users, plus you could just have a checkbox "Everywhere" if you like which only requires one click than to have to click twice every time you want a specific search...which for most people is everytime besides why do the other popular forum software have it this way...perhaps they are listening to the real customers, the actual users of their clients sites

Chris D · Oct 29, 2017

We do listen.

That's why we changed it to the new approach in XF2.

Bionic Rooster · Oct 30, 2017

Chris D said:
We do listen.

That's why we changed it to the new approach in XF2.

But as you said below, only some supporters wanted the change and yet the many non supporters (customers members) do not as you all have been advised.

Chris D said:
There have actually been some supporters of this change and it was made solely because feedback shows us over the last 7 years that people are getting confused because they've used search and they're not seeing the results they want because they don't realise the search was automatically constrained.

So to remove some peoples confusion rather than them learning the system, changes are made that cause more confusion for others.
That's to me is like removing fuctionality in MG because some people couldn't grasp or want to learn how to use it right.
I guess this means we can expect a major overhall of the permission system because many are confused how to set it up right?

ibaker · Oct 30, 2017

I have started a poll on my own site showing the 2 aternatives and AGAIN although it has only just started it is showing a user preference to the previous way. Just like what other forum software does like Invision etc. The ONLY way you can get a true indication is what a site users want NOT a developer or a site Admin. Sorry Chris but you are asking the wrong people and making bad decisions from this. Remember Search is what a forum has over social media

Chris D · Oct 30, 2017

Frankly, we're not changing it at this point. Again, we've had nearly a year to collate feedback on such things and it hasn't been forthcoming enough to suggest we've made a wrong decision here.

If you'd like to make a Suggestion thread here, then feel free to do so and we'll consider it for a future release if the subsequent feedback makes a compelling case for changing it back.

Chris D · Oct 30, 2017

I just wanted to add some further comments just to prove we're not just making changes for the sake of it and making up reasons to do or not do something.

The following threads were found by a single very quick search, I'm certain there's many more comments about the subject plus a fair number of tickets on the subject too. Every single one of these threads contains some sort of feedback about problems arising from the old defaults. There's even an XF1 add-on which removes the old defaults with some further comments in the reviews.

Forgive me for not commenting on each individually or spending further time on this but obviously our priority now is to get XF 2.0 stable out of the door and then we can evaluate what further feedback we get as it gets into the hands of many more customers and many more members.

https://xenforo.com/community/threads/improve-search-algorithms.31514/#post-360515
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/my-finger-is-on-the-buy-button.41628/page-2#post-449237
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/th-search.39486/#post-626468
https://xenforo.com/community/threa...s-after-moving-site-to-vps.75084/#post-772411
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/how-do-you-use-the-xenforo-search.68512/#post-718238
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/errorexception-undefined-index-name.30388/#post-347974
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/search-function.114596/
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/bug-search-this-forum-only-selected-by-default.27624/
https://xenforo.com/community/resources/search-all-forums.3187/reviews

ibaker · Oct 30, 2017

As always thanks Chris but I still feel there is a fundermental error in your approach to getting feedback and acting on it. The feedback in the demo is predominately from developers and a minority of Admins. I raised the concern nearly a year ago but got the same party line that is being said now instead of any attempts to get real feedback to base decisions on i.e. from actual site users. So nearly a year later and the only difference to the party line is that it is too late to change it now...so far in just a very short period of time a whopping 85.7% of my users want the old way...perhaps you should have asked everyone to ask their users instead of basing important decisions on a single source of biased individuals and what you are also saying is Invision and other forum software developers are ALL wrong except for you...with all due respect Chris!...85.7% users, yes actual users which is whom we have sites for...this reminds me of a way another company went, I think their name was vBulletin...I say no more

Steve F · Oct 30, 2017

I started reading @Chris D 's links and stopped when I came to this particular one and likely the biggest reason why it is how it is now. Never mind your 85.7% users (plenty of other ADMIN's users complained for the opposite of yours I'm sure).

jacko said:
This is incredibly silly but I suspect this was caused by "search this forum only" being ticked by default. Basically users (and I) were trying to perform a search inside a forum where there was nothing to return from search query. Repeating the search straight away performed it over whole site returning search results...

That was from the 4th linked post in Chris' message above, I'd rather choose to refine my search results than be presented with zero results because of a defaulted checkbox. Also I'm quite sure you'll be able to customize your site to suite the needs of your users.

Chris D · Oct 30, 2017

I disagree that there's any fundamental issue with our approach to gathering feedback. The entire point of launching the demo and having an extended beta process was so that developers and admins alike can feedback to us on things just like this and they did. We've made many changes based on feedback over the course of the last year and that feedback has come from developers and admins. Many admins have collated feedback from their users and given that to us. Where it is practicable we have listened and implemented changes.

You claim that we haven't got real feedback from actual site users but my previous post proves we absolutely have had real feedback and that is what we have acted upon here.

We're a matter of weeks away from a stable release out of a total testing phase which has lasted a whole year, so, yes, now is too late and we must concentrate on the task at hand which is to release the stable product.

To be clear: I'm not saying that there can't be a compromise either way or that there isn't some other solution out there, but right now this is our chosen solution and it has been made with the very best of intentions and based on a lot of feedback over a much longer period than this testing phase.

We are listening and are open to considering other solutions in the future. But just as you feel passionately about this and want your user's voices to be heard, we also can't just ignore the voices of many other users who feel the opposite.

ibaker · Oct 30, 2017

Chris, with the new search having the text "Everywhere" as the default, I am assuming that it will be be misleading to users on any site that adds an add-on that collects data as the search will not search the add-on data unless the add-on developer includes their add-on into the XF search function...most add-ons have not done this in the past. I would be right to say then that every site that adds an add-on that has data will need to change the text used in the XF core installation...or else the wrong message is sent to users...they would be thinking they are searching the whole site (Everywhere) when in fact they are not. Again another problem with the new search...incidentally my users are now at 92.3% don't want the new search. A bad move that will make most sites have to change things from the core

CyberAP · Oct 30, 2017

Basically what people on both sides want:

But XF2 is so close to the final release I don't think this is going to see the light of day in the nearest future.

I'll have to admit I hated that search within the forum feature at first, but then it eventually grew on me and I miss it quite a bit because it's very rare that I want to do a global search on the forum. And even if I do I am usually on the homepage.

EDIT: actually it would be smart to allow search refinement on the search results page the same way it's done in the template\phrase search. So that you can quickly adjust where and what to search after you've made a request. But of course with search location picker done in tabs and not in a dropdown menu.

sip · Oct 30, 2017

Question on Custom Fields per thread.
Is the Custom field going to be applicable only to the first post in the thread or for even replies.
There would be use case where the custom fields are needed only in the first post in thread and not to replies. So, is this use case covered?

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