What advice would you give to a community owner/leader wanting to give up?

[AjayJunkies]

I'm answering you for the last time because I don't want to waste time with those who don't want to listen...
Macrumors and avforums are 2 forums from 2001 so they are 23 years old and having many registered users it is normal that it is a little active but the fact remains that 99% of the posts and subscribers will have been made in the first 15 years.
In the last 10 years it will have had, at least, a 99% drop in registrations and posts.
He continues to deny the evidence...
Unfortunately xenforo doesn't provide public statistics but I'll paste you the statistics from the official smf forum... look at the decline over the years...

Fourms in 2024, unless they deal with topics that cannot be discussed on Facebook, are dead...
I also attached (in the previous post) a fb group of mine which is 9 years old (therefore old) and which with 4399 registered users has 3379 active users in the last 28 days...
Find me a forum that has more than 85% active users that isn't a porn forum.

The statistics from SMF also reflect the fact that the software honestly has not received significant updates. No updates, no need to visit thr official SMF forums.

Xenforo is much more robust and developed, so i would think XF would thrive better than SMF, phpBB, myBB, etc. Also, the fact that Discourse was developed in 2014 and is now widely used means there is still some need for community discussions.

If anything, there is a growing acknowledgement by enterprises or content creators or solopreneurs of wanting to own their own branded community. This allows them to own the users: to monetize and to market to their users. Thats where i personally see the future market for independent communities.

Independent forums for social, lifestyle, technology topics will be tough to survive, but i do believe those that evolve beyond discussions will be able to thrive.

 

[AjayJunkies]

and yet, my forum has: 40+ new registrants daily, 5200+ online now, member 226199 just registered, 20+ years of history, and 1180 posts so far today.

That, plus it's my full-time business. So yes, forums are clearly dead....................................

The question for legacy boards is, how is your activity over the years? Are you on track to make more money or less money this year versus last year?

40+ new registrations sounds nice, but was it 240 registrations five years ago?

Big boards have an inherent advantage of already being successful (or lucky!). Pointing to the success of big boards as a sign of forum success for everyone is like, well, pointing to the success of McDonalds and then saying every new restaurant can be successful.

(By the way, not calling you out in particular. I just want to make sure everyone recognizes that the perspectives of big boards is very different from those of new forum startups. Big boards have the bias of, well, success. What we really need is to incorporate all of the perspectives of all forum owners who attempted to start forums 20 years ago. How many of those forums are still around? That would be the real - and better - litmus test for success of forums over the years).

 

[CTS]

The question for legacy boards is, how is your activity over the years? Are you on track to make more money or less money this year versus last year?

40+ new registrations sounds nice, but was it 240 registrations five years ago?

Big boards have an inherent advantage of already being successful (or lucky!). Pointing to the success of big boards as a sign of forum success for everyone is like, well, pointing to the success of McDonalds and then saying every new restaurant can be successful.

(By the way, not calling you out in particular. I just want to make sure everyone recognizes that the perspectives of big boards is very different from those of new forum startups. Big boards have the bias of, well, success. What we really need is to incorporate all of the perspectives of all forum owners who attempted to start forums 20 years ago. How many of those forums are still around? That would be the real - and better - litmus test for success of forums over the years).

Yes, plus most subjects and forums have an "organic" shelf life. Some short, some very long. And sometimes you just can't fight that.

My perspective: uncounted startups, a couple fairly popular. None survived for various reasons. But still doing it.

 

[AjayJunkies]

And in the end it boils down to,.... do you enjoy it. And if you don't, you shouldn't be trying to.

But if you do enjoy it, like myself, then have at it.

I'm going to say something here that's spicy, but well intended. (And by the way, this isn't directed at any one person, but the quote above was simply a catalyst for this point.)

"Passion." I hear that thrown around a lot as the primary (and only!) reason why independent forum owners should start a forum. "Oh, as long as you have passion for your niche, you can run a forum." "Do it because you like it!" This sounds good. And it's something that's socially acceptable and vapidly repeated amongst forum owners.

Passion is fickle. Passion is volatile. Passion can stop at any time because you get bored, you dont have time, because you don't have money to renew, because your cat died, because your interests have shifted, because you moved, because you started a new job. Passion will eventually flame out. I actually think tying our forum managemnt to Passion is ... selfish. And short sighted.

When we start a community, we're obligating and building something for others. And maybe - just maybe - we might need to bring more to the table than only Passion especially since we are serving others with our communities. Maybe we need to bring financial resources (or at least the willingness to commit to a certain financial level) to pay for things like annual renewals, domains, and hosting. Maybe we need to bring a time commitment and discipline to our communities that, even if we're not "feeling it" for that week or day or month, we still participate and lead our forums. Maybe we need to bring leadership, project management, collaboration skills, or even strategic thinking. In other words, maybe we need to raise the bar because we're building something that is bigger than ourselves and we're competing in literally the world's toughest and most crowded marketplace: the Internet.

We shouldn't aim for Passion. We should aim for Marriage: a commitment to stick with our forums through good times and bad, for years of grueling work, and for showing up every day even when we dont want to. The requirements and obligations are higher for Marriage. Some of us may not be cut out for this level of commitment, and I think that's okay. I think we need to acknowledge that starting and running a forum in 2024 has a higher bar than ever before, and the freewheeling days of early forum are over.

 

[Ricsca]

Opening and managing a forum today is very complicated due to everything you said and what does designing forums do? Increase license prices even though the forum is identical to 20 years ago...

 

[BikeGremlin]

On a more serious note:

I would say nothing. It's their call. Running a forum has its pros and cons, and different admins have different tastes, budgets and priorities (and even for one admin those can change over time).

It's OK to quit when you know it's time to quit - it's your forum and your call.

Regarding the general course this thread has taken:
The number (and percentage) of people who are willing to participate in forums has decreased drastically over the years - "social" networks and smartphones are where it's at today. That has its pros if you value quality over quantity, but it does make it difficult to get a forum started and keep it alive.

Do you still get forum pages in Google search results as often as it was the case a decade (or even only a few years) ago?
That is how many people used to find (and join) forums.

 

[80sDude]

It's undeniable that forums don't hold the same popularity they once did. Platforms like Facebook, X, Quora, and Reddit have overshadowed new forums trying to establish themselves. Denying this reality means living in a different world. However, niche forums or those tied to specific businesses can still find success, though it's not easy. Long-established forums have likely experienced some loss due to the rise of social media, but their longevity and established user base provide them some resilience.

 

[mjda]

I have two forums, one which is twenty years old with more than 55,000 members which has had two messages in the last month and another forum of around 15 years with around 9000 registered users who had 60 messages in the last month!

If this is true, it's 100% your fault. You should be posting this much alone if it's your forum. If there are any lurkers, you could draw them in with the things you post. Two messages in a month? Yeah, you're not allowed to complain about how your forums are dying if you're not even posting on your own sites.

 

[woody]

The question for legacy boards is, how is your activity over the years? Are you on track to make more money or less money this year versus last year?

40+ new registrations sounds nice, but was it 240 registrations five years ago?

Big boards have an inherent advantage of already being successful (or lucky!). Pointing to the success of big boards as a sign of forum success for everyone is like, well, pointing to the success of McDonalds and then saying every new restaurant can be successful.

(By the way, not calling you out in particular. I just want to make sure everyone recognizes that the perspectives of big boards is very different from those of new forum startups. Big boards have the bias of, well, success. What we really need is to incorporate all of the perspectives of all forum owners who attempted to start forums 20 years ago. How many of those forums are still around? That would be the real - and better - litmus test for success of forums over the years).

2011 averaged 32 per day, 2016 averaged 30 per day, 2020 averaged 41 per day, 2024 is averaging 37, 30-50 is the range per day. Lately, it's growing.

Activity levels changed when I made the XF switch, since "likes" helped stop the "me too" replies. Content to noise ratio continues to improve.

Overall revenue is projected for a 23% increase this year over last year, and about 5% over the previous 2021 record.
Yearly revenue was $780.77 for 2004. Hosting/software/etc pushes $25k yearly now.

 

[Mr Lucky]

Activity levels changed when I made the XF switch, since "likes" helped stop the "me too" replies.

Same here. The old fart users compl.aibed about how lazy it is and what's wrong with posting a simple thank you or plus one. But from an admin point of view it is so much better for the overall focus and quality of a thread (probably) as far as Google is concerned.

Content to noise ratio continues to improve.

Exactly. Forums take a bit of curation to improve quality and focus of threads - in the end it's good for users and so good for SEO

 

[woody]

Same here. The old fart users compl.aibed about how lazy it is and what's wrong with posting a simple thank you or plus one. But from an admin point of view it is so much better for the overall focus and quality of a thread (probably) as far as Google is concerned.

Many of my "old fart" members are still active and have celebrated 20 years of forum participation. 2569 members have logged in to claim their 20 year badge

 

[Mr Lucky]

Many of my "old fart" members are still active and have celebrated 20 years of forum participation

Same here, and they have got used to reactions now.

 

[Suzanne O]

Many of my "old fart" members are still active and have celebrated 20 years of forum participation. 2569 members have logged in to claim their 20 year badge

Haha at the "old fart" nickname to your cranky users!
Such an aussie slang couple of words!
My mate @BIG LLC has a lot of members.
There are plenty of old farts on his board.

 

[Ricsca]

If this is true, it's 100% your fault. You should be posting this much alone if it's your forum. If there are any lurkers, you could draw them in with the things you post. Two messages in a month? Yeah, you're not allowed to complain about how your forums are dying if you're not even posting on your own sites.

On my websites (not forums) I have around 1 million page views per month, on my social networks I have around 50 million views per month, I have been managing 1 forum for 20 years and 1 forum for 15 and you think I don't know how to do web?
Among other things, in a forum, if people don't write, should I start writing myself? Do I ask myself questions and then give myself answers?

 

[Ricsca]

2011 averaged 32 per day, 2016 averaged 30 per day, 2020 averaged 41 per day, 2024 is averaging 37, 30-50 is the range per day. Lately, it's growing.

Activity levels changed when I made the XF switch, since "likes" helped stop the "me too" replies. Content to noise ratio continues to improve.

Overall revenue is projected for a 23% increase this year over last year, and about 5% over the previous 2021 record.
Yearly revenue was $780.77 for 2004. Hosting/software/etc pushes $25k yearly now.

Are you saying you earn 25,000 euros in 2024 with your forum?

 

[woody]

Are you saying you earn 25,000 euros in 2024 with your forum?

That's yearly fixed expenses. Has stayed pretty consistent for the past 10ish years.

 

[Ricsca]

Sono spese fisse annuali. Sono rimaste piuttosto costanti negli ultimi 10 anni.

Avevo invertito il significato con Google Translate... Ma hai molti siti interessanti su cui spendere 25.000 dollari all'anno?

 

[woody]

Avevo invertito il significato con Google Translate... Ma hai molti siti interessanti su cui spendere 25.000 dollari all'anno?

Only one major one, and a few small ones. I split a server with my sysadmin, and my costs include management and bandwidth. Generally serve 12GB a month. The server is a year/two old now, but included all the latest/greatest at the time.

 

[BikeGremlin]

Avevo invertito il significato con Google Translate... Ma hai molti siti interessanti su cui spendere 25.000 dollari all'anno?

Is this a forum bug, or your browser auto-translates stuff?

 

[mjda]

Among other things, in a forum, if people don't write, should I start writing myself? Do I ask myself questions and then give myself answers?

If that's what it takes to get it active, yes...my main point is that you can't come on here complaining about your site activity when you're not active on it either.