UK ISPs to Block TPB

[Adam Howard]

Continued.......

You can not, 100%, stop piracy. If there is a will, there is away.

Just as nothing is 100% hack or crack proof and can be hacked or cracked; everything can and will be pirated. Everything.

In fact the more you try to stop something; the more attention you bring to it and the more you encourage it.

Napster is a fine example. It generally was underground and while popular, generally unnoticed until it became an issue and then everyone & their grandma discovered it. And from Napster, was born well over a dozen (12) other competing sources.

Think of it like the urban legend... Make a fuss and pull 1 gray hair and you'll have a dozen (12) more.

Even if tomorrow, everyone unplugged from the Internet (World Wide Web); there would still be people willing and more than able to pirate. It can not and will not be stopped.

Period.

 

[Adam Howard]

And finally from my own personal opinion..... (last post)

Piracy is can be a good thing.

I fully believe and support the idea of trying a product completely before purchasing. And until they make trail-ware web software (or generally Trial-ware everything), I will continue to hold that true.

vBulletin and XenForo is a fine example. The demo is nice and mildly informative, but not complete as nothing can tell me exactly how it will function in my setup or provide me code to review, without first obtaining a copy. And for customers such as myself, it is impossible (ask god) for us to willing part ways with our funds; without first having that test drive.

So yes, I had a firm understanding of vBulletin and XenForo before I purchased it. And not only did I benefit from that actions, but XenForo and this community did too. The same applied to vBulletin 3x and 4x.


I also believe firmly in reverse piracy. Microsoft Windows is a fine example.

I can think of a few times where I purchased a valid copy of Microsoft Windows. For example, Windows Vista was pre-installed into my new computer from HP Computer. Yet my only pre-installed copy (OEM) ended up invalid. HP said it was a Microsoft issue and Microsoft said it was an HP issue. Neither company would resolve this issue, so my valid and rightful solution was to "activate" it myself.

I after all did pay for my copy. HP offered the same make and model of computer with Ubuntu Linux installed, for less. The added price tag included Windows Vista. And this wouldn't be the 1st time (or last) when such an issue would present its self.

 

[Fred Sherman]

How is the site infringing copyright?

That would be trafficking in stolen goods.

 

[Fred Sherman]

you are wrong......i so can connect to any site without my isp knowing it...if you don't already know how I am not explaining it....i learned how to ironically from a friend in AUS.

No, you can't. If you aren't aware of how an ISP can track every site you ever interact with, I'm not explaining it. But I will give you a hint... bits 129-160.

 

[Fred Sherman]

Sorry Anthony, this is something I disagree with entirely on principle. I am a UK citizen and I do not acknowledge any US laws as having juristicion over me under any circumstance unless I was in the US or its territories.

No, you could be just tried and convicted in abstentia and you government would assist in enforcing any fine levied.

 

[mrGTB]

They want to block ISP's in the UK from vewing TPB, so why don't they tell Google first to stop indexing that site and pages from it sending traffic there? Enter this in Google Search and see 10,700,00 results show up.

site:thepiratebay.se

In that Guardian article the music industry complained about TPB making loads of money from ads, why not try and nip the ads in the bud then? I'm pretty sure forcing Google to blacklist the site and stop ads being served to it would be much more effective as a whole. Seeing as TPB is really only there in operation to make money. Better still, why not take the TPB site down. Oh! But they can't do any of that can they, so instead they target British people and censor them from viewing it. No wonder people start getting angry feeling like they are being singled out as a whole nation being told what (they can and can't view), while other carry on as usual "uncensored". Because what they should really be doing, it seems they are completely powerless to do anything about. So we'll just suffer from internet censorship while Google carries on working "hand-in-hand" showing other people 10,700,000 pages from the site they can visit helping make TPB a small fortune still. The whole morals of it all is bankrupt!

Google even offer a BitTorrent search engine, how laughable is that and include some sites in it known to share illegal works.

Link: http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=003849996876419856805:erhhdbygrma

According to record labels, The Pirate Bay generated up to $3m (£1.8m) from advertising last October by making 4m copies of music and films available to its 30 million users worldwide. The site has 3.7 million users in the UK, according to comScore.

 

[MagnusB]

It doesn't matter what country you live in, if a movie is made in the US and has copyright attached to it from the US, then it doesn't matter what country you watch the movie within, that copyright is still legally binding.

That doesn't make sense. Nearly all works are copyrighted, as long as it qualifies for copyright. It doesn't matter where the movie or product is made, local legislation is always used. For example in Norway we are allowed to make backups, and distribute these to our friends. I have several CD's at home that are backups for a friend of mine, and he has some of mine, all perfectly legal. We are also allowed to bypass copy protection, though the legislation here is a bit more tricky. It doesn't matter if the movie is made in USA, I live in Norway, local legislation is still valid, even though some companies would like you to think otherwise.

In Australia they don't worry about blocking them, instead ISP's just monitor anyone downloading from such sites, forward the information to the authorities and you get a nasty please explain in your mailbox and likely a court date following. You can connect with proxies and whatever the hell you want then, end of the day, you are connecting to an ISP with a known account, and you cannot get past that with any amount of anonymity. You would have to go hacking wi-fi connections and such to get around it here.

In my opinion, this sounds like the government have outsourced the policing function to private companies. Unfortunately we get similar legislation thrown upon us through EU over here, and it is even worse, all traffic will be logged, though not the content. They even opened that private interests can get access to this data.

Blocking TPB will achieve nothing. As someone mentioned earlier, piracy is a service issue; Valve is making money in Russia, even though this have long been considered as a hopeless market for digital distribution.

Those who pirate to get free stuff, will do so anyway, the rest will start being legal once there are quality services in place that actually can compete with the service level of just pirating the movie. Look at Spotify, Last.fm and more for music. This basically eliminates the need for piracy, and is even better, cause you don't need 1000s of CD's, or several harddrives to store your music collection, you just stream it, anywhere at anytime. The service is better than piracy, so people use it.

 

[mrGTB]

Well it's now happened, I can no longer view TPB from today.

 

[mrGTB]

There's been a response to this already posted yesterday on Zeropaid, telling how people can still access the site.

 

[EQnoble]

No, you can't. If you aren't aware of how an ISP can track every site you ever interact with, I'm not explaining it. But I will give you a hint... bits 129-160.

lol

 

[Anthony Parsons]

That doesn't make sense. Nearly all works are copyrighted, as long as it qualifies for copyright. It doesn't matter where the movie or product is made, local legislation is always used. For example in Norway we are allowed to make backups, and distribute these to our friends. I have several CD's at home that are backups for a friend of mine, and he has some of mine, all perfectly legal. We are also allowed to bypass copy protection, though the legislation here is a bit more tricky. It doesn't matter if the movie is made in USA, I live in Norway, local legislation is still valid, even though some companies would like you to think otherwise.

Yes, though as you said, the copyright proprietor has marketed that product (movie) in your country by agreeing to that countries specific copyright terms, thus at the beginning of a movie marketed in that country the copyright would reflect your laws, just like here in Australia, our laws, not the US one's...

So whilst the copyright proprietor has agreed to sell you their movie disc with the ability to go around copy protection, and even to distribute to your friends, if that is the law, they did not say you can distribute it online to anyone.

I would be interested to see that law though, because many seem to confuse your allowance to make a backup copy with circumventing the disc's security mechanisms.

Example as was pointed out to me by Floris, who lives close to your part of the world and has the same laws as here in this regard, is that it is legal to have the backup, though the copyright clearly cites it is illegal to circumvent the disc's security.

So they say make a backup in one breathe, however; if you circumvent the disc's security to make that backup, you just infringed the copyright. I looked it up myself after it being pointed out, and I was also mistaken.

Then again... Norway may have what you state for laws... though again, they don't say anywhere you can do such through distribution outside of Norway.

Catch 22...

 

[MagnusB]

Yes, though as you said, the copyright proprietor has marketed that product (movie) in your country by agreeing to that countries specific copyright terms, thus at the beginning of a movie marketed in that country the copyright would reflect your laws, just like here in Australia, our laws, not the US one's...

So whilst the copyright proprietor has agreed to sell you their movie disc with the ability to go around copy protection, and even to distribute to your friends, if that is the law, they did not say you can distribute it online to anyone.

I would be interested to see that law though, because many seem to confuse your allowance to make a backup copy with circumventing the disc's security mechanisms.

Example as was pointed out to me by Floris, who lives close to your part of the world and has the same laws as here in this regard, is that it is legal to have the backup, though the copyright clearly cites it is illegal to circumvent the disc's security.

So they say make a backup in one breathe, however; if you circumvent the disc's security to make that backup, you just infringed the copyright. I looked it up myself after it being pointed out, and I was also mistaken.

Then again... Norway may have what you state for laws... though again, they don't say anywhere you can do such through distribution outside of Norway.

Catch 22...

I can't really show you the exact legal text, cause it has been a while since I last really took an interest in it. I can freely distribute it to people abroad as well, though I think the phrase used is something like "close friends". By distributing it abroad, I am not doing anything illegal, assuming they are close friends, and then again, local legislation in the receiver's country will again determine if he / she are doing something illegal.


Additionally, any EULA or TOS reducing your lawful rights are invalid here. It doesn't matter if the copyright owner tries to limit your rights, the legal text still applies. This is also present in many other countries. Circumventing the copy protection is legal as long as it is easy (or they are not "efficient"). How "easy" is being defined is unknown, and AFAIK this has not been tried in court here, but I am not sure about that. A while back there was some CD's that included DRM's that were not functioning with some car steroes. Of course consumer circumvented this DRM in order to use the product.

The legalese is not clear, there hasn't been much tried in a court. But, if you are a digital consumer, at some point you will have pirated, either unknowingly or knowingly. This also shows that when it is so easy for a consumer to break the lay, without knowing, there is obviously something wrong. Try reading the iTunes EULA, I am not sure if it still includes the part about not using the software to make weapons of mass destruction, operate nuclear plants, life support machinery etc etc (http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/06/25/itunes-may-not-be-us.html)

 

[Adam Howard]

That would be trafficking in stolen goods.

http://xenforo.com/community/threads/uk-isps-to-block-tpb.31043/page-2#post-355567

 

[Adam Howard]

They want to block ISP's in the UK from vewing TPB, so why don't they tell Google first to stop indexing that site and pages from it sending traffic there? Enter this in Google Search and see 10,700,00 results show up.


In that Guardian article the music industry complained about TPB making loads of money from ads, why not try and nip the ads in the bud then? I'm pretty sure forcing Google to blacklist the site and stop ads being served to it would be much more effective as a whole. Seeing as TPB is really only there in operation to make money. Better still, why not take the TPB site down. Oh! But they can't do any of that can they, so instead they target British people and censor them from viewing it. No wonder people start getting angry feeling like they are being singled out as a whole nation being told what (they can and can't view), while other carry on as usual "uncensored". Because what they should really be doing, it seems they are completely powerless to do anything about. So we'll just suffer from internet censorship while Google carries on working "hand-in-hand" showing other people 10,700,000 pages from the site they can visit helping make TPB a small fortune still. The whole morals of it all is bankrupt!

Google even offer a BitTorrent search engine, how laughable is that and include some sites in it known to share illegal works.

Link: http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=003849996876419856805:erhhdbygrma

That is what SOPA and PIPA proposed; the removal of X site's existence from every search page and revenue.

The problem is you can not censor the internet without risking censoring the innocent. And once we allow censorship we set a foothold (beachhead) for ground on future possible actions.

The whole concept is Pandora's Box. No government or corporation can be trusted not to take advantage of that power once they have it.

 

[mmoore5553]

The whole concept is Pandora's Box. No government or corporation can be trusted not to take advantage of that power once they have it.

I totally agree. Everyone has a Lex Luthor in them.

 

[Fred Sherman]

lol

Meaning you didn't get it.

 

[mrGTB]

That is what SOPA and PIPA proposed; the removal of X site's existence from every search page and revenue.

The problem is you can not censor the internet without risking censoring the innocent. And once we allow censorship we set a foothold (beachhead) for ground on future possible actions.

The whole concept is Pandora's Box. No government or corporation can be trusted not to take advantage of that power once they have it.

It was just a figure of speech. Meaning it's one rule for some, another rule for others.

 

[EQnoble]

Meaning you didn't get it.

SO you can read my mind too huh genius...I like how you think a title and a salary make you smarter than everyone...


But yeah nice fishing trip....you won't be learning what I know especially by trying to call me out...time to go do some homework don't you think there? But yeah since things have come to a head here I can end this useless convo...


so again....


I laugh at you...twice as hard now...


L
O
L


....so what did I mean with the above lol Mr. Medium...



LOL ...never mind . . . don't answer...I don't care what you have to say...keep spewing your I know everything and you know nothing attitude...I need to laugh at someone today anyways instead of with them.

 

[Anthony Parsons]

You aren't getting confused with SSH tunnelling and such methods are you? Being to encrypt your connection between you and your ISP that encrypts what you send / receive. That doesn't hide who you are from them, because at the end of the day you must have a permission to obtain an IP from their system, thus they can trace the connection to a physical line address or wirelessly within a few meters of the device connected to their IP.

 

[EQnoble]

you are wrong......i so can connect to any site without my isp knowing it...if you don't already know how I am not explaining it....i learned how to ironically from a friend in AUS.

The premise of the questions which have bet set forth following my first post in this thread are logical ...however....simply put, they are not under the terms of or even close to which I am not speaking of... in a sense where, the wrong question is being asked so that leads me to believe that I thoroughly understand that which was not asked and furthermore, that it has not been asked even though it IS the most logical approach with the least amount of resistance leads me to believe that I am not the person or persons in this thread that is confused about this sub-topic...when I am confused I will tell ANYONE....check around ...I still call myself a noob...humility is not the issue here...I simply know what I am talking about here and can not share.


It is not that I don't want to share how...it is that if I as a responsible person and user and contributor of resources around a few places here as an example can responsibly use the WHOLE internet under the premise that I look both ways before I cross the street...it would also be pretty logical that I would not reveal what I guess turns out to be not such an obvious thing and based on some of the responses and personalities in the thread and it would be most prudent for myself to not reveal a thing so as to be able to have fruit on the tree tomorrow.



good night all ...time for sleep. I hope we can end this sub-conversation at this point and move on.