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The US will go over the fiscal cliff

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Digital Doctor, Dec 21, 2012.

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  1. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    I think it might be inevitable at this point.
    I've felt all along the Democrats should just go over the cliff (allow all tax decreases to expire for all income levels) and then just force the Republicans to vote for tax decreases for those under 250K in the New Year. The Republicans are going to come out of this looking even worse than they do currently.

    The House Republicans seem bent on playing cards they don't really have. Now Boehner can't get any GOP support for even small tax increases. If it is 2-4 years of this .. America will wisen up and get rid of the House Republicans - giving the Democrats control of everything.
    Should be interesting. Obama better not cave. He should realize he has every reason not to.
  2. BlackJacket

    BlackJacket Well-Known Member

    The Fiscal Cliff needs to happen. There are no other choices to solve this debt issue we have...
    dutchbb, 0xym0r0n and digitalpoint like this.
  3. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    Mr. Obama wants to raise taxes by about $20-billion a year more than Mr. Boehner.​

    That’s real money by most measures. Yet such numbers are barely noticeable compared to the $2.6-trillion the government is projected to collect next year, and to the $3.6-trillion it’s expected to spend.​

    Despite their differences, the numbers being proposed by Mr. Obama and Mr. Boehner are so close, and the political risks both men have taken on taxes and Social Security benefits are so stark, that many consider it almost unthinkable that they would not eventually complete a deal. [source]​

    Arguing over 20 billion seems like small potatoes when you are a trillion in the hole for next year's budget.
    Is that correct ?
  4. BlackJacket

    BlackJacket Well-Known Member

    A penny saved is a penny earned...
  5. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    Spin Master Boehner at it again.
    Essentially as he can't stand up to his GOP members, he attacks Obama for not being able to stand up to the Democrats.
    It's all bogus lying soundbites.
  6. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    I'm using the words fiscal cliff to mean letting the tax cuts expire on Jan 1, 2013.
    I agree the US balance sheet is probably beyond repair.
    The US defaulted after world war 1, maybe it has to happen again.
    It'll certainly make US worker's salaries more competitive.
  7. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Well-Known Member

    Raise taxes, lower taxes... none of that really matters. What really needs to happen is the federal debt ceiling needs to just be frozen. The mentality of our government of bringing in $500 billion more in revenue... in their mind, that means they have $800 billion more to spend.

    Rather than borrow now and figure out how to pay it back someday in the future, a freeze on the debt ceiling means you need to figure out where the revenue is coming from before you borrow.

    Of course the other problem is people have grown accustomed to the government taking care of them so citizens will just vote for whoever isn't going to take away their entitlements.

    I honestly don't mind if they raise taxes as long as that would be used to pay down debt... but I'm fairly certain they will figure out something to spend any extra revenue on, so it's kind of a lost cause unfortunately.

    Now if all US taxpayers, would just kick in their fair share of $1,061,218... we could be out of debt finally. http://www.usdebtclock.org/
    dutchbb, Cal, 0xym0r0n and 4 others like this.
  8. SchmitzIT

    SchmitzIT Well-Known Member

    We see the same thing happening in the Netherlands, Shawn. The government decides it's time to freeze the debt ceiling, and do so by raising taxes, rather than shrinking the government itself.

    The Dutch government is a gigantic bureaucratic machine that poisoned the public school system and the health care system by introducing layers of middle management, all making the life of the people with their feet in the mud more difficult, and obviously, the people running the show are incompetent party-sheiks, who get paid huge salaries for their mis-management.

    The government expects people to balance their books better by not spending more than they earn, but they themselves are exempt from that expectation. It's time for a new revolution, or firing each and every politician (with the possible exception of Ron Paul, maybe).
    dutchbb and erich37 like this.
  9. Slavik

    Slavik XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Trust me, when the cuts come you'll know about it. The UK deficit reduction plan has reduced our annual deficit by 1/4 and the machine is already starting to groan. The problem is, as it currently stands there is no growth occuring on a large scale, so effectively its double dipping as the reduction plan was largely reliant on a solid level of economic growth to offset the pain of the cuts.

    Unforutnately this means the average voting idiot in the UK will switch their vote back to the heavy spending labour party and push us right back into the bad situation we were in before any of the cuts were made.
    Luke F and Deebs like this.
  10. SchmitzIT

    SchmitzIT Well-Known Member

    That's exactly what happened in Holland. Labour soared, and now people are complaining about working people being taxed ever more.

    I'm just thinking "What the **** else did you expect?".
  11. Mr_Bob

    Mr_Bob Well-Known Member

    Political Science is my undergraduate major. I'll never forget what one of my favorite professors said in regard to the voting public (in both a Politics & Media class and Elections class), "The average member of the voting public is politically inept. They rely on spin doctors and political parties to craft their political perceptions."
    MsJacquiiC, digitalpoint and Slavik like this.
  12. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    The American media's coverage of Politics is worse than in most countries.
    I think the poor coverage contributes to a misinformed electorate.
  13. Slavik

    Slavik XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Well as I said, we are only 1/4 of the way out of the UK yearly deficit, and the whole government is aching over the cuts. I would say we need to get to do that again, and then focus on a sound growth plan to make up the other half by moving the debt from public sector to private sector once again.

    All of this is probbaly at least 5 years+ from happening if it happens at all, and if a spendy spendy government like labour gets back in, then push that back 10 more years.
  14. jmurrayhead

    jmurrayhead Well-Known Member

    You guys would probably save a fortune if you didn't add extra letters to words like "labor". :ROFLMAO:
    SchmitzIT, John and Slavik like this.
  15. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    I think if Obama caves and gives the Republicans too much, I am going to call him weak.
  16. Hyperion

    Hyperion Active Member

    Heard from economist Dean Baker that the fiscal cliff is a myth. Not surprised if this is another fabricated narrative being pushed by statesmen and the media. What do you guys think?
  17. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    It's a myth.
    The US won't end Jan 1, 2013 with the tax increases.
    If one Republican says "Obama just issued the largest tax increase in American history" they should be shunned into oblivion.

    What is true is that the US Debt might get downgraded because of political gridlock.
  18. digitalpoint

    digitalpoint Well-Known Member

    Probably a good thing in the long run. :)
  19. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Well-Known Member

    I thought of a way to end gridlock in Washington.
    When legislation is introduced, there are 3 votes.
    1 for the president
    1 for the house
    1 for the senate

    If the house and the senate can't agree, it goes to the president to break the tie.

    Zero gridlock.
  20. Hyperion

    Hyperion Active Member

    You guys are talking about the credit rating? Read from a 14 Sept Reuters article that it was already downgraded from AA to AA- (now I know there's an AA-). Suppose this time it will be A, since the first downgrade went from AAA to AA.

    Edit: The AA- rating given by the American credit rating agency, Egan-Jones.
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