The navbar

[jmurrayhead]

Hay-zeus Christo! Styling this thing is a *****! I've seen a lot of designers complain about what a pain it is...but I never imagined it was THIS bad.

Here's a peek at the navbar I'm working on:
And doing just this much took a few hours. When I hover over the damn thing, the splitCtrl ******* is half-way in half-way out...and the white space between each item still has a different background color (because of the PopupControl). So much work into creating something that should be so simple!

Mike...Kier...what are the plans to make this easier?

 

[Forsaken]

Hay-zeus Christo! Styling this thing is a *****! I've seen a lot of designers complain about what a pain it is...but I never imagined it was THIS bad.

Here's a peek at the navbar I'm working on: View attachment 45349
And doing just this much took a few hours. When I hover over the damn thing, the splitCtrl ******* is half-way in half-way out...and the white space between each item still has a different background color (because of the PopupControl). So much work into creating something that should be so simple!

Mike...Kier...what are the plans to make this easier?

Honestly all you need to do is learn how to work with it and it becomes much easier.

It is probably the most modifiable portion of the design and I've yet to find anything I've been unable to do with it (Though I have added a bit to make that easier for me).

If you want some help I can help you with if it.

 

[jmurrayhead]

Honestly all you need to do is learn how to work with it and it becomes much easier.

It is probably the most modifiable portion of the design and I've yet to find anything I've been unable to do with it (Though I have added a bit to make that easier for me).

If you want some help I can help you with if it.

Well yeah, I'm sure after doing 20-30 styles it becomes much easier. That can be said about anything that you put any effort into. This could be made much easier for non-designer types. At least there's Extra.css...

 

[Forsaken]

Well yeah, I'm sure after doing 20-30 styles it becomes much easier. That can be said about anything that you put any effort into. This could be made much easier for non-designer types. At least there's Extra.css...

Making it easier for non-designers would end up making it harder for designers.

Honestly the navigation is pretty balanced, it just takes some learning at what things do.

What could be changed and probably should is the way popups work as that is the more irritating part of the navbar.

If you want a copy of my framework it makes working with the navigation a lot easier, and you can remove the SplitCtrl with a checkbox. Just send me a PC if you do.

 

[jmurrayhead]

Making it easier for non-designers would end up making it harder for designers.

I don't think so. Simplify the navbar. Both designers and non-designers shouldn't have a problem with that.

What could be changed and probably should is the way popups work as that is the more irritating part of the navbar.

Yes. Absolutely. I guess that's what I'm saying above.

If you want a copy of my framework it makes working with the navigation a lot easier, and you can remove the SplitCtrl with a checkbox. Just send me a PC if you do.

Will do.

 

[Shelley]

No issues with the navbar whatsoever. I'll admit it takes a little practice but it won't take long to familiarise yourself with it. Perhaps if the devs extend on the navigation style properties area but as the navigation is now no complaints with it.

 

[jmurrayhead]

No issues with the navbar whatsoever. I'll admit it takes a little practice but it won't take long to familiarise yourself with it. Perhaps if the devs extend on the navigation style properties area but as the navigation is now no complaints with it.

I'm pretty sure I've seen you rage about the navbar a few times. Anyway, I'll see if Forsaken's framework thingy makes life a little bit easier on that front.

 

[Shelley]

I'm pretty sure I've seen you rage about the navbar a few times. Anyway, I'll see if Forsaken's framework thingy makes life a little bit easier on that front.

It was at the start frustrating which is why I mentioned being familiarised with it and practice styling it I didn't make any posts here raging about it just that it was frustrating when i first dealt with it telling of my experience. I stuck with it and thats where i think you missed my point but it's your choice, use the framework, learn nothing in dealing with it.

 

[jmurrayhead]

It was at the start frustrating which is why I mentioned being familiarised with it and practice styling it I didn't make any posts here raging about it just that it was frustrating when i first dealt with it telling of my experience. I stuck with it and thats where i think you missed my point but it's your choice, use the framework, learn nothing in dealing with it.

keh

 

[Shelley]

keh

I actually was just trying to help. It is frustrating and I had a lot more errors than success stories it wasn't a dig towards you just trying to offer up that with perseverance you actually would have seen after a few days (for you) took me longer you would have familiarised with it.

 

[jmurrayhead]

I actually was just trying to help. It is frustrating and I had a lot more errors than success stories it wasn't a dig towards you just trying to offer up that with perseverance you actually would have seen after a few days (for you) took me longer you would have familiarised with it.

The software developer in me likes reusability. If there's a solid framework in existence that allows me to quickly put together something without spending hours/days/weeks trying to figure it out, I'll use it. When I write code, I don't just throw it in a code file and copy and paste it wherever I need it. I encapsulate it and make it extendable so that I get as much use out of it as I can without causing complete chaos in the application. Same holds true for designing, I suppose.

 

[Shelley]

The software developer in me likes reusability. If there's a solid framework in existence that allows me to quickly put together something without spending hours/days/weeks trying to figure it out, I'll use it. When I write code, I don't just throw it in a code file and copy and paste it wherever I need it. I encapsulate it and make it extendable so that I get as much use out of it as I can without causing complete chaos in the application. Same holds true for designing, I suppose.

I'm not knocking the Framework, it's in my mind the better of the frameworks at xenforo (more options than any other). Now I'm speaking purely about the navbar here. You or rather your post struck me as "educate me" I want to learn and deal with this navbar so the best advice I can give, which is sound advice is that you familiarise yourself with how it works. I tell everyone this who has trouble with it in that it takes a little time.

I was offered the framework but I refused it many many times because of that exact reason and that was because if I had used it specifically for the area (navigation) I would never have learned how to deal with it. This is what I was trying to convey across without fully explaining it and I'll repeat on my part when I first started with the navigation it was trial and error (more error) but in the end it's got to the point where I can make a custom navigation design it in photoshop, slice it where necessary and code it up within an hour (less) depends on the complexity of the design.

Of course, your free to do as you please I was trying to help out but I'll say learning the navigation you will be more thankful for it in the end.

 

[jmurrayhead]

I'm not knocking the Framework, it's in my mind the better of the frameworks at xenforo (more options than any other). Now I'm speaking purely about the navbar here. You or rather your post struck me as "educate me" I want to learn and deal with this navbar so the best advice I can give, which is sound advice is that you familiarise yourself with how it works. I tell everyone this who has trouble with it in that it takes a little time.

It was actually meant to be purely feedback on the experience thus far.

I was offered the framework but I refused it many many times because of that exact reason and that was because if I had used it specifically for the area (navigation) I would never have learned how to deal with it. This is what I was trying to convey across without fully explaining it and I'll repeat on my part when I first started with the navigation it was trial and error (more error) but in the end it's got to the point where I can make a custom navigation design it in photoshop, slice it where necessary and code it up within an hour (less) depends on the complexity of the design.

I see what you're getting at and I agree that "practice makes perfect" when it comes to dealing with the navbar. As I mentioned above, my whole point of this thread was simply my personal feedback on it. Sure, I can take the time to really get intimate with how the navbar is constructed...I was just saying that it should probably be much easier than it is.

Of course, your free to do as you please I was trying to help out but I'll say learning the navigation you will be more thankful for it in the end.

I'll likely just use Extra.css to style it how I want. That part is easy.

 

[Forsaken]

I'm not knocking the Framework, it's in my mind the better of the frameworks at xenforo (more options than any other). Now I'm speaking purely about the navbar here. You or rather your post struck me as "educate me" I want to learn and deal with this navbar so the best advice I can give, which is sound advice is that you familiarise yourself with how it works. I tell everyone this who has trouble with it in that it takes a little time.

I was offered the framework but I refused it many many times because of that exact reason and that was because if I had used it specifically for the area (navigation) I would never have learned how to deal with it. This is what I was trying to convey across without fully explaining it and I'll repeat on my part when I first started with the navigation it was trial and error (more error) but in the end it's got to the point where I can make a custom navigation design it in photoshop, slice it where necessary and code it up within an hour (less) depends on the complexity of the design.

Of course, your free to do as you please I was trying to help out but I'll say learning the navigation you will be more thankful for it in the end.

Actually using the framework should help deal with learning the navigation as well as it's split up into sections (Xenique - Navigation Tabs which has the different tab states and elements, Xenique - Navigation Containers which has all the containers including pageWidth and pageContent, and Xenique - Navigation Corners which is added for individual corner control for Kim styles and some of mine) but you can also go through the CSS and figure out what controls what as it is all split up into it's own CSS template.

The framework just lets you do it through a user interface rather doing it through the code but it still would make it easier if you used the code because you can use the framework for snippets as well (I think Kim did it for one custom style).

 

[Shelley]

Actually using the framework should help deal with learning the navigation as well as it's split up into sections (Xenique - Navigation Tabs which has the different tab states and elements, Xenique - Navigation Containers which has all the containers including pageWidth and pageContent, and Xenique - Navigation Corners which is added for individual corner control for Kim styles and some of mine) but you can also go through the CSS and figure out what controls what as it is all split up into it's own CSS template.

The framework just lets you do it through a user interface rather doing it through the code but it still would make it easier if you used the code because you can use the framework for snippets as well (I think Kim did it for one custom style).

You don't have to explain that to me I know about your framework. I wasn't knocking your framework so you needn't worry about that because I like it and it's practical. This you know already. Reading the title warrants the response I gave but the fact is if people have an auto pilot button they will not be so eager to learn to fly manually.

The post I made is just an average post I make, you've seen me making many times with the similar response except for some reason what was suppose to be a helpful post based on my experience (which you have personal knowledge of) know this already and know what I was getting that.

TBH - I think from all the frameworks I think your is the better but that is just my opinion, but this you already knew just like you knew what I was originally explaining.

Yeah, I'm quite sure Kim did use the Framework for a style and it showed how easy it was to use. You did an excellent job with it, did I mention you did an excellent job with it?

 

[Forsaken]

You don't have to explain that to me I know about your framework. I wasn't knocking your framework so you needn't worry about that because I like it and it's practical. This you know already. Reading the title warrants the response I gave but the fact is if people have an auto pilot button they will not be so eager to learn to fly manually.

The post I made is just an average post I make, you've seen me making many times with the similar response except for some reason what was suppose to be a helpful post based on my experience (which you have personal knowledge of) know this already and know what I was getting that.

TBH - I think from all the frameworks I think your is the better but that is just my opinion, but this you already knew just like you knew what I was originally explaining.

Yeah, I'm quite sure Kim did use the Framework for a style and it showed how easy it was to use. You did an excellent job with it, did I mention you did an excellent job with it?

No, I was just stating that you can still learn the navigation with the framework due to the way it's made .

For some people it's easier to learn through an interface than it is to learn from line after line of CSS so I made it so that the style property names and descriptions were descriptive and that the CSS code is relatively clean.

Using the framework will make it faster to work with the navigation, but you will still need to learn how a few things are done without having to go into the CSS (popup states for one).

 

[Shelley]

No, I was just stating that you can still learn the navigation with the framework due to the way it's made .

For some people it's easier to learn through an interface than it is to learn from line after line of CSS so I made it so that the style property names and descriptions were descriptive and that the CSS code is relatively clean.

Using the framework will make it faster to work with the navigation, but you will still need to learn how a few things are done without having to go into the CSS (popup states for one).

Basically they still have to learn how things work, initially what I was saying and firebug (browser code inspector) is capable of aiding anyone who doesn't wish to go through lines and lines of code.

Edit: todo - Add cheatsheet guide for navigation to the RM

 

[Russ]

Basically they still have to learn how things work, initially what I was saying and firebug (browser code inspector) is capable of aiding anyone who doesn't wish to go through lines and lines of code.

Exactly... without a framework too. I think we can all agree that there's room for improvement in the navigation area when it comes to style properties. Just because the navigation is a little difficult the immediate answer shouldn't be a 3rd party framework, but rather core suggestions. Just my opinion, and p.s. I'm a fan of frameworks

 

[Shelley]

Exactly... without a framework too. I think we can all agree that there's room for improvement in the navigation area when it comes to style properties. Just because the navigation is a little difficult the immediate answer shouldn't be a 3rd party framework, but rather core suggestions. Just my opinion, and p.s. I'm a fan of frameworks

Definitely 100% agree.

When and if that day happens I think we will see more custom navigations from the average user.

I'm a big fan of frameworks also I think they are a good thing and never have been against them but actually think in many cases they aid users greatly.