The Demise of the United States is Inevitable

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Fred I agree with almost everything you have said - EXCEPT cutting social security.

Seriously??? IMO that would be morally and ethically wrong. Good grief man, my mother gets a SS check of less than $900 per month. Her rent is $450, plus utilities, plus, plus, plus. Just where do you think it should be cut? Oh wait, you want her family to take care of her? Well guess what? I am on a fixed income myself, because I'm a single mom with a special needs son and can work only part time. I guess she could go on welfare but you are cutting that out too. She can't even go into an assisted living facility because they cost more than the SS check.

Under your system, half of the elderly population would be living on the streets. Yeah that works. :rolleyes:

These people paid into SS all their working lives. If the government has spent their money, then the government owes them. Period.
 
Good God, where do I start...

On the military side of things, its time to reassess our overseas commitments. We have troops stations based on WWII commitments and Cold War threats. Time to let our allies shoulder the burden for their own security. We don't need bases in Western Europe anymore. Time to close them all, bring our troops home and realign active duty troop levels.
Actually you do. Its hard to project air power if you're having to refuel your planes in the air because you haven't got any air bases close enough to where you want to project air power.

Of course, whether you should be projecting said airpower is another issue...

While we're at it, dissolve NATO. It has never lived up to its ideals and there are NATO members that have never fulfilled their obligations. Another international organization that has never quite lived up to its vision is the UN. I would invite the UN to relocate to Brussels and greatly curtail financial support for that international debating society.
heh, the only one that never fulfilled NATO commitments was France really, but then the French didn't like the idea of being told what to do by the US.

Although it is true, NATO was formed in the cold war era to combat the USSR. It probably isn't required anymore, to be honest.

The UN though is required, although I'd admit, it has become a debating society and unable to do the most seemingly obvious things - such as the critism of Syria over the treatment of its own people when the demonstrations originally flared up.

Military adventurism needs to end. Repeal the War Powers Act. The US only puts troops in harm's way with a declaration of war.
Yup, totally agree. However its a difficult call though as allowing the Taliban to control say, Afghanistan would open the door for mass training camps and an upsurge in attacks, no only on the US but western allies too. Like it or not, they are not going away and like an army of ants trying to be stamped on by the US' boot - its really a battle that can never be 'won', only suppressed and those types never end.


Economically, we are held hostage by OPEC. Time to end that. We open up ANWAR and the coasts to oil drilling - to US companies. Not BP, Brazil or China, but US oil producers.
You don't need to be quote so protective towards your own producers, simply an alternative to OPEC is what's required. The problem is most of the oil suitable for Gasoline comes from the Middle East. But the cartel should be banished and Oil should be subject to market rule, just as any other commodity is. Yes oil is getting more expensive to get at, but they are making truely obscene profits at the moment.

We also have to embrace nuclear power. Frace is an excellent example of how it can be done safely.
Well, I'm not quite there with you on this one. A few years ago perhaps, but there's a fair bit to be said for micro-generation, especially when you have a lot of sun-kissed states where Solar would work well. Until we get Fusion sorted, Fission should be off the agenda. Its too dirty and too risky, especially in the US where practically every state is at risk of one natural disaster or another.

The problem with Solar is efficiency of the cells though, something that should change over the next 5 years or so due to recent improvements in the lab.

Which brings us to taxes. Two flat taxes - a national sales tax and a flat income tax. Everyone pays from the bottom to the top at the same percentage. No loopholes, and nothing more than the standard deduction permitted.
Flat income taxes are hugely unfair. Why should someone earning $20K a year pay the same tax rate as someone on $200k a year? The low paid should pay less tax %ge and the well paid should pay more - simple. However, having a nationally set tax regime would make collection a damn sight easier, rather than allowing states to set their own levels.

More tough love?

Welfare is ended. No able bodied American should collect a check from Uncle Sam without working for it. Workfare will replace welfare. Instead of welfare sucking off the GDP of the US, Workfare will increase the GDP.
Ahh, one aspect that rings true on this side of the Atlantic as well. Definitely get the able to work to work and off the welfare system.

The minimum wage will be lowered. Like it or not, we're competing in a global economy and the cost of unskilled labor in the US is too high. $7.25/hr for flipping burgers is ridiculous. Time to be more realistic. We can't keep reassign the minimum wage and complain about companies moving overseas. Do we not realize we're causing this?

Sounds fine, but you're missing one key factor - cost of living. The cost of Living in the US (or the UK for that matter) is what pushes the Minimum wage up. We can never compete with the likes of China, India or Pakistan for cost of living, its why they are so low over there, because they don't need anywhere near as much to live as we do.

Social Security - time for the elderly to realize a harsh truth - you allowed your saving to be spent by your government. Its not there. And you can't expect the next generation to pay for your mistake by working until they're 70 so you can retire at 65. Its morally wrong. To do so will create a cycle where the next germination is a wage slave to the previous. I'm sorry, but your benefits are going to have to be cut. The government cannot be your primary means of support. That duty now falls to your family where, frankly, it should always have been.
Sorry, that is woefully missing the point. The reason we will have to retire later is simply down to the fact that as a society, we are living longer than previous generations and as such, the pensions are being claimed for longer. Saying that someone spent their savings and as a result they're out on the street is, frankly, disgusting.

This is what we need to restore our financial health. Do you really see the US with the stomach for this? Do you think Americans are ready to care for their elderly parents instead of the government? My grandparents' generation could have done it. As the children of WWI and the adults of The Great Depression and WWII, they understood common sacrifice.

We don't possess a 1/10th of their greatness. We will not accept reality. We will not accept the sacrifices that are required to solve our problems. We've lied to ourselves about our greatness to the point where we believe it. We think we're a nation of destiny, the shining light of freedom when the reality is we're slaves to our debt, selling our nation piecemeal to our greatest threat - China.

The Egyptian empire fell. Greece gave way to history. Roman fell into a decline of its own making. Britannia allowed the sun to set on it. America will soon reach its zenith, if it hasn't already.

If history tells us anything its that every Civilisation comes and goes. The western Civilisation may well have peaked and we're staring down the abyss of a massive financial collapse to come, which to be quote honest, scares the crap out of me. Perhaps we need a big reset button to be pressed and all the world's debt is wiped out and we start again! The problem is the issues this would cause with those who lent the money in the first place.

One thing is for sure, nations cannot continue living in debt levels that are as high as they are. We can't keep paying Interest on the debt to the level of billions of pounds / dollars / euros a year and not start to repay the capital. If we as people tried to do this, we'd be forced into bankrupcy by the lenders... problem is though, when you're talking of the debt levels of a country, its the banks that can quite easily go bust if a country defaults..

And we all know what happens when confidence in banks is shattered....
 
Oh wait, you want her family to take care of her? Well guess what? I am on a fixed income myself, because I'm a single mom with a special needs son and can work only part time. I guess she could go on welfare but you are cutting that out too. She can't even go into an assisted living facility because they cost more than the SS check.
The problem is in previous generations we could do this. The children didn't have the debt levels that we have and arguably, they had more time on their hands than we do. Women very often didn't work as the man was the 'bread winner' and more generations lived in the same house or at the very least, in the same village / town.

Our society these days has changed and its simply not able to care for older generations in the same way. Yes, some can do and should do if they can and are able. However, we have to acknoweldge that society has changed and its sometimes not possible to care for our older generations as we would have done previously.

As long as they paid into the system when they were earning, the state owes them the support they are entitled to.

The problem is those who come into the system from other countries and then take from it without putting into it in the first place, they're the real problem and again, without getting into a big moral and ethical debate, its a hard issue to tackle.
 
Nothing demonstrates the problem with the US financial situation better than Greenspan's comments yesterday:

"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that. So there is zero probability of default" said Greenspan on NBC's Meet the Press.

"What I think the S&P thing did was to hit a nerve that there's something basically bad going on, and it's hit the self-esteem of the United States, the psyche" said Greenspan.

How sad is it that my first thought on reading this was the punchline to an old Blonde joke, "How can I be overdrawn? I still have checks left!"?

Hell, if that's the case, lets just fire up the ol' printing press and crank out $15 trillion. We can end the debt crisis in a week, right?

With this type of thinking, how are we not irreparably broke?

And spare me the talk about the Clinton surplus because there wasn't one. That was more of Washington's smoke and mirror's game. It was a projected surplus, based on trending out unsustainable growth based on vastly overvalued dot com stocks.

And make no mistake - Washington does not like surpluses, so they spend them. What they don't do is use it to pay down debt.

Do what you want, but I've already figured out how to earn my 100 points towards citizenship in the Cayman Islands.
 
Oh dear.

That coming from the guy who used to run the Federal Reserve too.

I can't quite believe Greenspan said that.
That reminded me of this a couple years ago

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At the rate it is going, my wife and I have been talking lately about moving out of the U.S. Haven't decided where yet but we will figure out something.

What ills me the most is what our kids are going to have to go through.
 
At the rate it is going, my wife and I have been talking lately about moving out of the U.S. Haven't decided where yet but we will figure out something.

What ills me the most is what our kids are going to have to go through.
I was sold on the Cayman Islands after two visits. There are on income or sales taxes - a huge selling point for me. All revenue is raised through banking fees - Georgetown has more banks than Manhattan. That also works for me, since banks are definitely high-tech, so remaining employed won't be an issue either.
 
What ills me the most is what our kids are going to have to go through.
Tell me about it and ours isn't even born yet; due late Oct. I'm beginning to wonder if bringing a new life into the world at the moment is fair on the child, not sure what state its going to be in when they're older.
 
it's all about perception... what is happening is that the rest of the world is catching up with the USA, therefore creating a more stable balance.. and just like those old measuring balances, one side needs to go down for the other to go up... hopefully, one side doesn't go to much down.... that will mean bad news!
 
it's all about perception... what is happening is that the rest of the world is catching up with the USA, therefore creating a more stable balance.. and just like those old measuring balances, one side needs to go down for the other to go up... hopefully, one side doesn't go to much down.... that will mean bad news!

What do you mean by "catching up with the USA" ? What benefit does the rest of the world have by catching up with the USA?
 
And while it all crumbles around us, the people who are paid (and paid mightily) to solve this can do nothing but point fingers. I'm sick of it. The Dow is down over 500 again today. The flash point is near folks and once it's lit, there will be no stopping it.
 
it's all about perception... what is happening is that the rest of the world is catching up with the USA, therefore creating a more stable balance.. and just like those old measuring balances, one side needs to go down for the other to go up... hopefully, one side doesn't go to much down.... that will mean bad news!

You mean being drenched in debt.

And while it all crumbles around us, the people who are paid (and paid mightily) to solve this can do nothing but point fingers.

Isn't that what you just did?

I'm sick of it. The Dow is down over 500 again today. The flash point is near folks and once it's lit, there will be no stopping it.

Usually is the way with a house of cards.
 
And while it all crumbles around us, the people who are paid (and paid mightily) to solve this can do nothing but point fingers. I'm sick of it. The Dow is down over 500 again today. The flash point is near folks and once it's lit, there will be no stopping it.
The Dow will rise again soon, I believe.
A good company's share worth US $100 now will be worth US $ 130 because the weaker dollar.
 
DJIA down over 10% in two days of trading. I'm anxiously awaiting how the market crash will be made into Bush's fault.

Don't get me wrong, W did do some things I took issue with, but he's been living down the road from me for quite awhile now. Hard to see how this mess is his.
 
Barackalypse Now. Progressive lemmings drove us to this point, and no doubt they will try to blame the Tea Party.
 
Or their fair share of "I told you so"... They did kind of have a mandate from the public to do something about the debt, which the democrats refused to deal with until the very end. If the public didn't want the debt dealt with, they wouldn't have made a 180 degree vote change from who they elected in 2008.
 
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