Thank you Chief Justice Roberts, you are a wise man.

[John]

Basically, most everything in the bill makes perfect sense to those who actually study and care about public health. But there is a subset of people in the USA who don't listen to reason and rather turn on talk radio or Murdochs media....and then repeat over and over again "this is bad, the sky is falling".

Bull hockey. Conversely, there is a minority of people in this country who are perfectly willing to turn over all of their freedoms to the federal government...the "proven" arbiter of all that's fair and efficient lol.

The only reason there is pushback on this is because the Republicans hate the President. In fact, Mitt Romney - the GOP candidate, instituted this same program in MA., the state where I live, with great success.

Great success huh?

Michael Cannon, director of health policy studies at the libertarian CATO Institute, says the Massachusetts law hasn't been an overwhelming success. "Everyone is spending someone else's money and can't believe they are spending their own," Cannon says. "We still have doctors and patients spending the government's money, and you've still got workers spending their employers' money."

Cannon says while it's generally acknowledged that insurance enrollment went up in Massachusetts under the health reform law, he reckons the numbers are inflated by a large percentage because people are afraid to admit they don't have insurance because of possible penalties.

An academic study by John F. Cogan and Daniel Kessler of Stanford University and Glenn Hubbard of Columbia University estimated that the Massachusetts plan has caused heath insurance premiums to rise 5.9% more than in the rest of the U.S. for the period from 2006 to 2008.

 

[craigiri]

Good thing we have all this money to spend on things like this. Government is just too big and I don't know where this sense of entitlement comes from.

Could you translate that into East Coast American for me?

 

[John]

The law seems OK to me. We will be a healthier society when everyone has access to affordable care. For that I am willing to pay for health insurance. Well... I already pay for health insurance. But my costs will go down once the law goes into effect. I can't think of anything to complain about.

If you look at Mass. as what to expect, you can rest assured your costs will rise and your choices will diminish.

 

[BGL]

But my costs will go down once the law goes into effect. I can't think of anything to complain about.

Costs will continue to go up for all of us and that is a problem that only a European national health care system will fix in the US. US costs is 18% of GDP and will be 20% of GDP by 2014 while Europe's costs are in the 10% range. No insurance companies in the middle of health care transactions between providers and patients. That's responsible for about 40% of US overage cost. The other 10% is due to so many not having insurance and going to emergency rooms for the most expensive care possible and having serious illnesses requiring hospitalization due to no basic preventive care. Some end of life decisions figure in there also with a large percentage of health care dollars being pointlessly spent in last six months of life. But central is getting the insurance companies out of health care. They greatly add to costs and provide no health care and their profit motive is based on not providing health care to those who need it which drives up costs for those with or without insurance.

Health insurance costs for those who get employer subsidized health care have gone up 20% in 2011 and will go up about the same in 2012.

 

[craigiri]

Great success huh?

John, you are too smart to quote the Koch funded and started "Cato Institute" for your facts!

The plan in MA. is very successful. The public and the medical profession are very much for it and we are busy improving it. Our economy is booming and unemployment is down below 6%.

That's quite different from "job killer" that Boner claims.

Please, for your own sanity, don't quote think tanks. DC has tens of thousands of "scholars", funded mostly by a few right wing billionaires, which make up their own facts and then broadcast them.

Speaking of that - did you know the Romney plan was put together by the ultra-conservative heritage foundation? Yep! They loved it until Obama did it. Then they decided it was unconstitutional.

 

[Jake Bunce]

If you look at Mass. as what to expect, you can rest assured your costs will rise and your choices will diminish.

Aww that sucks.

 

[BGL]

It's interesting how on nearly every forum, no matter the topic, the health care decision today is a big topic.

 

[John]

John, you are too smart to quote the Koch funded and started "Cato Institute" for your facts!

The plan in MA. is very successful. The public and the medical profession are very much for it and we are busy improving it. Our economy is booming and unemployment is down below 6%.

That's quite different from "job killer" that Boner claims.

Please, for your own sanity, don't quote think tanks. DC has tens of thousands of "scholars", funded mostly by a few right wing billionaires, which make up their own facts and then broadcast them.

Speaking of that - did you know the Romney plan was put together by the ultra-conservative heritage foundation? Yep! They loved it until Obama did it. Then they decided it was unconstitutional.

Tsk, tsk...Koch funded = evil, huh? Please. Care to respond to this "non-Koch funded" research?:

An academic study by John F. Cogan and Daniel Kessler of Stanford University and Glenn Hubbard of Columbia University estimated that the Massachusetts plan has caused heath insurance premiums to rise 5.9% more than in the rest of the U.S. for the period from 2006 to 2008.

 

[craigiri]

If you look at Mass. as what to expect, you can rest assured your costs will rise and your choices will diminish.

John, unfortunately we have had to use the MA. system many times in the past 3 years - I'm talking brain surgery, spinal surgery, etc.

We hardly paid a cent. There were no discussions about finances. We had the best surgeons in the world - seriously - from Harvard and Mass General.

We just had a surgery in April - the facility was FIVE STAR. You honestly would not believe it if you saw it! Single rooms for ALL patients, beautiful lobbies and waiting areas, food for the taking, views out of all the windows (natural daylight and skylight) - even a meditation garden.

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about, but I will be glad to answer any real questions you have. We have probably the best medical care (infrastructure) in the USA.

Does it cost more than states who don't insure or care about their populations? Well, probably, BUT our incomes are higher than the rest of the country, so as a % it is probably lower.

AND, we are starting to work on even better value and other things.

How about your state? What percentage are not insured? Is the health care first rate? How many top 10 or top 20 hospitals are close by?

 

[John]

Costs will continue to go up for all of us and that is a problem that only a European national health care system will fix in the US.

Seriously?

 

[craigiri]

Tsk, tsk...Koch funded = evil, huh? Please. Care to respond to this "non-Koch funded" research?:

John, John...keep reaching around the net.
You'll find whatever you need to prove to yourself what you want.

But, please, look at the calendar. It's 2012. What two guys said might happen back in 2005 isn't really science or statistics!

Please, ask me any question you want...IF, and that's a big if, you actually are interested in reality. If not - well- keep looking for those old studies. Also, let me know why our unemployment went down so fast after that "job killing" Romneycare!

 

[BGL]

Please. Care to respond to this "non-Koch funded" research?: An academic study by John F. Cogan and Daniel Kessler of Stanford University and Glenn Hubbard of Columbia University estimated that the Massachusetts plan has caused heath insurance premiums to rise 5.9% more than in the rest of the U.S. for the period from 2006 to 2008.

Health INSURANCE costs not health care costs. Health insurance is not health care services. One of the reasons that insurance costs are up nationwide is that there is no restraint on insurance companies, many are monopolies due to Wall St financial schemes of buyouts of smaller plans and other scams. One of the failings of Obamacare was guaranteeing insurance companies a 15% net profit, a provision insisted upon by the more Wall St insurance company friendly Congressmen. Overall Obamacare is the Wall St insurance company dream, mandatory purchase of their product and guaranteed profit on top of the bonuses, golden parachutes, Manhattan Taj Mahal towers and banks for clerks denying health care benefits AND a guaranteed profit. So the more insurance companies spend, the more profit they make.

 

[craigiri]

Here is the building we were in. This may come as a surprise to some, but this type of stuff cost more than a cinderblock community hospital.

 

[DBA]

We hardly paid a cent.

That's a problem for me. Since when did health insurance become a right and not a privilege?


So if I'm going to be paying for your health care I'd also better be able to control what you eat, what kind activities you do (nothing dangerous), and also your workout schedule (you need to be as healthy as possible).

First off no soda, coffee, or basically any product with caffeine. No fast food...ever, you'll have to eat balanced meals everyday. You also need to pass a driving test that I setup, just to be sure that you won't get into any accidents. Also need to make sure that your car is safe in a collision. Let me see what else... Oh you have to live in a neighborhood that I deem safe. Plus you can't own any firearms or hunting knifes as I deem those "dangerous". Your work/job has to be vetted for safety before you can accept any job offers. I'll be removing your TV's and computers as those are a bad influence. Oh and better take away your cellphone as you might be one of those people that become absorbed in them and end up not paying attention to things around them......etc.


While the above was a joke (somewhat), how many of those things has the government already changed/regulated or is in the process there of?

 

[DBA]

Here is the building we were in. This may come as a surprise to some, but this type of stuff cost more than a cinderblock community hospital.

View attachment 31041View attachment 31042

These are for profit companies. Don't like them, well then don't buy anything from them, pretty simple really.

 

[a legacy reborn]

See it like car insurance. You are also forced to have this.

It helps the community if everyone is paying into the large pot so anyone can use it if he needs it. It will be the same low rate no matter if you have preexisting conditions or not and you cannot be denied. It will be the same low rate no matter how much you may need it in the future. And if you are lucky and won't ever need it, see it as a small payment in favor for the poor people.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/04/health_insurance_mandates_vs_a.html

 

[craigiri]

These are for profit companies. Don't like them, well then don't buy anything from them, pretty simple really.

So, I have a choice of as many hospitals when I have my heart attack.....like fast food?? I ask the ambulance to deposit me first in a starbucks so I can do some research on my laptop and then decide who I want to "buy" trauma care from?

Explain.

 

[Eric Russell]

John, unfortunately we have had to use the MA. system many times in the past 3 years - I'm talking brain surgery, spinal surgery, etc.

Businesses should compete for your business. If you are one of the people who can not afford insurance, for whatever reason, then yes I agree the government should have something in place.

I don't have a problem giving some of my hard earned money to the needy. I have a serious problem giving my money to the lazy.

If I don't feel like working anymore do you feel you should pay my way?

 

[craigiri]

Businesses should compete for your business. If you are one of the people who can not afford insurance, for whatever reason, then yes I agree the government should have something in place.

I don't have a problem giving some of my hard earned money to the needy. I have a serious problem giving my money to the lazy.

If I don't feel like working anymore do you feel you should pay my way?

Yeah, sorry - still don't understand because.....as the system exists up until today, you ARE giving your money to the lazy, needy, sick, etc. (so am I).

Just that you are paying more for it than you should...because they are going to the ER or ending up much sicker than they would be with better preventative care, earlier treatment, etc.

This bill makes them pay! It then gives them care before they get to the ER. So it would seem it makes it so you pay less - for better result - which should make you very happy???

 

[GMoore7]

That's a problem for me. Since when did health insurance become a right and not a privilege?


So if I'm going to be paying for your health care I'd also better be able to control what you eat, what kind activities you do (nothing dangerous), and also your workout schedule (you need to be as healthy as possible).

First off no soda, coffee, or basically any product with caffeine. No fast food...ever, you'll have to eat balanced meals everyday. You also need to pass a driving test that I setup, just to be sure that you won't get into any accidents. Also need to make sure that your car is safe in a collision. Let me see what else... Oh you have to live in a neighborhood that I deem safe. Plus you can't own any firearms or hunting knifes as I deem those "dangerous". Your work/job has to be vetted for safety before you can accept any job offers. I'll be removing your TV's and computers as those are a bad influence. Oh and better take away your cellphone as you might be one of those people that become absorbed in them and end up not paying attention to things around them......etc.


While the above was a joke (somewhat), how many of those things has the government already changed/regulated or is in the process there of?

Shouldn't you be doing that to people without health insurance coverage already? You technically already pay for those people that are without any coverage hitting the E.R. through your premiums anyway.

Health insurance still isn't a right. Nobody is making you buy it. You are free to pay the penalty for not purchasing it if you so desire. Congress is within its constitutional right to tax you. Since the penalty is classified as a tax, it isn't unlawful.

Otherwise we wouldn't pay taxes at all.