Shared Hosting issue

[hauntmaster]

We are a newer user to Xenforo, having started with the forum this past September. We chose A2 hosting turbo shared hosting plan. I have resisted posting here because I really don't want to do something that would seem as "slamming" my provider, but we are stuck now and would appreciate any help we can get. We are a relatively small site using a diminimous amount of resources by everyone's estimations.

Bottom line: For the first 4 months, all of our systems ran without any issue whatsoever. Then, starting in January, we found that an error that would constantly be received almost daily that required one of the admins to repair our databases. This issue started happening more frequently, jumping to mostly daily and sometimes more than twice per day. A2's initial response was that it was a software issue and Xenforo said this should be the host. Finally, after very significant back and forth, A2 suggested we upgrade to a VPS plan for the following reason:

The issue here is that Xenforo has chosen to use a storage engine(MYIsam) prone to crashing on those three tables anytime MySQL is restarted and offers no performance benefits over InnoDB on MySQL 5.6 and higher. Sadly, due to the nature of shared web hosting, restarts of MySQL can happen quite often on a shared web hosting server.

A2's suggestion was to change the storage engine to InnoDB for all, something that Xenforo said we should not do or they could not support the program, this is why A2 is saying we need to upgrade to a VPS for more control

My issue is our site is very small, with low amount of traffic. I understand there are potentially issues with shared hosting, but I also know people with much greater needs than ours are on shared hosting without issue. If it was as A2 describes, then no one could be on shared hosting, right?

I know the easy solution is to just change hosts, but we have our domains hosted there, and have had zero issues until this(which granted is only 4 months). We are told no issues before because we were on newer server with not as many people on it. We need a managed plan, we are not capable of handling on our own.

Any thoughts/suggestions/things to try or advise A2 to try? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[Paul B]

Sadly, due to the nature of shared web hosting, restarts of MySQL can happen quite often on a shared web hosting server.

I would dispute that.

I was on shared hosting and had issues 2 or 3 times in a period of several years.

 

[Bryan]

There's a lot of false information from your host there but putting that aside, a small forum should be able to work perfectly well on a shared environment as long as it is not oversubscribed (and presuming it is set up optimally).

You have sort of answered your own question in your post, you may be reluctant to move but if they cannot provide you with the service you need without upgrading you to packages you clearly don't need then it may be your only real option.

 

[Optic]

A2's initial response was that it was a software issue and Xenforo said this should be the host.

That's amusing, considering @Alex - A2Hosting has marketed themselves as "XenForo hosting" in their topic here:
https://xenforo.com/community/threa...92-3700-reviews-us-eu-asia-ssd-drives.115443/

The issue here is that Xenforo has chosen to use a storage engine(MYIsam) prone to crashing on those three tables anytime MySQL is restarted and offers no performance benefits over InnoDB on MySQL 5.6 and higher.

Regardless of the table storage engines, restarting MySQL blindly is a sure-fire way to damage your database (should be done via a graceful server reboot) ..

You need to work with your host to find out why your tables are crashing in the first place - often this is outside of your control if you're on shared hosting, and is something they really need to fix.

 

[hauntmaster]

Thanks @Optic. Yes, A2 does market themselves as a Xenforo expert. They are actually on the third party services here, and if you google xenforo hosts, you will see their name pop up. They are on a lot of companies top hosting lists too which is why this is all perplexing. I have asked numerous times about why there are crashes, and they say that's because they need to restart mysql all the time. I have pressed as to what's happening that requires this, and they have not given specific answers just more of what you see above and claimed that the storage engine some Xenforo tables are on doesn't allow for a graceful reboot and they crash and we have to go in and repair. They have told us outright there is no more discussion to be had, and we need to upgrade since Xenforo wont' support a change in storage engine on those tables. Thank you all for your answers and advice. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something. I read alot and understand many will say that VPS is always better no matter what the size of your forum, but when you are utilizing no more than 3% of any of the resources on a shared plan, that's a tough pill to swallow.

In case I didn't do a good enough job describing all, here was what they said earlier on when it kept crashing:

If the MySQL table is crashing multiple times per day, that would suggest that a query being run from within the site itself is writing data to the table that MySQL cannot process, causing it to crash.

We recommend speaking with an experienced XenForo developer to assist you in investigating the site and its MySQL queries, as they will have a strong understanding of XenForo and why this may be happening. You could also use XenForo's community for assistance:
https://xenforo.com/community/

Part of their last response after that when i told them Xenforo advised it was a host issue:

We have already identified the cause of the issue: MySQL restarts.

A database operation that has not completed runs the risk of corrupting a table when MySQL restarts. Due to the frequency of this on a shared web hosting environment, our default storage engine is InnoDB, which gracefully handles this condition.

MySQL may be restarted for a number of reasons. If an application relies upon MySQL never restarting in order to maintain consistent data, then this application has included in its design a specification for the database that is not a good fit for shared web hosting. This doesn't just apply to A2 Hosting, but to shared web hosts everywhere.

--I guess what I don't have enough experience to know is if mysql restarting all the time is common, and if so why others aren't having the same issues I am having. But you all have told me this is not common and should not be expected behavior and I thank you for that. If this additional information makes anyone think differently, please let me know. Or if there is anything any one thinks we can do to resolve this issue that we haven't tried. Thanks.

 

[WSWD]

--I guess what I don't have enough experience to know is if mysql restarting all the time is common, and if so why others aren't having the same issues I am having. But you all have told me this is not common and should not be expected behavior and I thank you for that. If this additional information makes anyone think differently, please let me know. Or if there is anything any one thinks we can do to resolve this issue that we haven't tried. Thanks.

No, it is not common at all, and should not happen. MySQL restarts are absolutely not common, unless the server is overloaded and MySQL is constantly crashing. Their answers are incorrect, and 100% misleading, in an attempt to justify the restarts on their overloaded servers. Services of any kind on a server, be it http, mysql, mail, etc., do not just restart on their own (and certainly not frequently) unless something is wrong.

Furthermore, to say that Xenforo is not a good fit for shared hosting is an outright lie. xF has absolutely ZERO problem running on shared hosting.

 

[hauntmaster]

Thank you @WSWD . I have seen other threads, but curious for other's feedback on who would be a good host for a shared hosting. I saw Hawkhost's semidedicated which seems to be between shared and a VPS and got some positive reviews here. There are so many choices out there and pros and cons to each I know.

 

[trapped_soul]

Thank you @WSWD . I have seen other threads, but curious for other's feedback on who would be a good host for a shared hosting. I saw Hawkhost's semidedicated which seems to be between shared and a VPS and got some positive reviews here. There are so many choices out there and pros and cons to each I know.

Bit of a minefield really. You could get your own little droplet and manage that, but then you're responsible for all of it including security.
I would 100% speak with @MattW though, he may be able to offer you something as a shared and managed environment.

 

[Ozzy47]

I would 100% speak with @MattW

I agree, get in touch with @MattW

 

[hauntmaster]

I just wanted to give everyone an update. We ended up switching to Site Ground almost a month ago now and went with their shared hosting plan, but their go geek plan because we were nervous having too many people on a server. I am happy to report our issues went from multiple per day, to zero in the one month post move. Literally none. I want to thank everyone for your thoughts and feedback. I'm glad A2 and Xenforo both told us to ask our community, and appreciate everyone's time in responding and letting me know what we should be listening to, and what we shouldn't be listening to.

 

[Ozzy47]

Glad to hear your issues and grief has been solved.

 

[ExpatIndo]

@hauntmaster may I know which version of XF you were running on A2? Was it 1.5 or 2.0?

The reason I asked is because we just switched FROM SiteGround to A2 literally yesterday simply because the plans were too expensive there.

As I was researching for information on A2 optimizations for XF, I stumbled upon this thread and I'm mortified.

We are still on version 1.5, and so far so good. No problem whatsoever with XF. But I wonder if we're going to face the same issues by upgrading to 2.0.

 

[Brad Padgett]

@hauntmaster may I know which version of XF you were running on A2? Was it 1.5 or 2.0?

The reason I asked is because we just switched FROM SiteGround to A2 literally yesterday simply because the plans were too expensive there.

As I was researching for information on A2 optimizations for XF, I stumbled upon this thread and I'm mortified.

We are still on version 1.5, and so far so good. No problem whatsoever with XF. But I wonder if we're going to face the same issues by upgrading to 2.0.

Sometimes hosting support can be a pain. I've known several people who have used A2 without an issue but never used them myself. One of which is a vBulletin developer who uses it on his site and has never had an issue. Granted I assume the OP's posts are legitimate, I still don't think you have much to worry about. However considering shared hosting is supposed to be cheap if you ever need to switch you can try webhostingtalk.com or my host hostrush.com where they offer VPS hosting for probably the same price your paying as shared. It's about as cheap as you can get for a VPS and I've been with them 10 months, my site has not gone down a single time and I still haven't experienced any red flags or issues that would need to be addressed. But you should be fine with A2 so don't jump to conclusions. Like I said sometimes hosting support can be a pain which is the main reason I try and handle things for my site on my own.

 

[hauntmaster]

We were on version 1., not 2.0. @ExpatIndo @Brad Padgett , we had ZERO issues with A2 when we first signed up with them. And when the you know what hit the fan it hit hard. We were with them for 3 or 4 months and everything was great. Then we started getting multiple error issues per day that resulted in people not being able to upload anything to the site and other issues. Ours is a very low volume site. What was most upsetting was their response and how they handled it. First, they told us it was a Xenforo issue and were very insistent. They were the ones who asked me to post this on Xenforo to get advice from others. Then they said it was an issue with how Xenforo is written and recommended we upgrade to a VPS plan saying their was nothing they could do(I am giving you the reader's digest version, there was a ton of other back and forth including a proposed solution of Xenforo being re-written, I kid you not). If they feel that Xenforo can't be run on a shared environment, why are they still selling shared hosting on their servers to others? Why if you google hosting on Xenforo, are they one of the first results and why are they tooting themselves as Xenforo experts? I am far from an expert, but it is pretty obvious to me that they just overloaded the server(s) we were on with too many users and/or someone misusing the system. There is no other reason why there would be no issues for months and then suddenly BAM(btw...someone did acknowledge to me we were placed on a newer server and now many more were added to it)! I think @Brad Padgett is correct, you will probably be ok until such time as they overload the server you are on, or don't monitor what someone else is doing on a shared server(the issue with shared servers I suppose). That said, I would never recommend A2 based on how they handled this situation and their telling me that A2 cannot run on shared servers if someone was trying to select a provider(see my responses above where I copied and pasted what they said so there was no miscommunications)

I should add we've been on Site Ground for over 2 months now and we have had zero issues, no restarts, no issues at all.

 

[Brad Padgett]

We were on version 1., not 2.0. @ExpatIndo @Brad Padgett , we had ZERO issues with A2 when we first signed up with them. And when the you know what hit the fan it hit hard. We were with them for 3 or 4 months and everything was great. Then we started getting multiple error issues per day that resulted in people not being able to upload anything to the site and other issues. Ours is a very low volume site. What was most upsetting was their response and how they handled it. First, they told us it was a Xenforo issue and were very insistent. They were the ones who asked me to post this on Xenforo to get advice from others. Then they said it was an issue with how Xenforo is written and recommended we upgrade to a VPS plan saying their was nothing they could do(I am giving you the reader's digest version, there was a ton of other back and forth including a proposed solution of Xenforo being re-written, I kid you not). If they feel that Xenforo can't be run on a shared environment, why are they still selling shared hosting on their servers to others? Why if you google hosting on Xenforo, are they one of the first results and why are they tooting themselves as Xenforo experts? I am far from an expert, but it is pretty obvious to me that they just overloaded the server(s) we were on with too many users and/or someone misusing the system. There is no other reason why there would be no issues for months and then suddenly BAM(btw...someone did acknowledge to me we were placed on a newer server and now many more were added to it)! I think @Brad Padgett is correct, you will probably be ok until such time as they overload the server you are on, or don't monitor what someone else is doing on a shared server(the issue with shared servers I suppose). That said, I would never recommend A2 based on how they handled this situation and their telling me that A2 cannot run on shared servers if someone was trying to select a provider(see my responses above where I copied and pasted what they said so there was no miscommunications)

I should add we've been on Site Ground for over 2 months now and we have had zero issues, no restarts, no issues at all.

Glad you haven't had any issues. I was just pointing out that sometimes support doesn't exactly say or do the right thing in certain hosting companies. Several of which I have dealt with in the past and since moved from. I still recommend my host which is named HostRush (https://www.hostrush.com). I thought it was too good to be true but at the time I didn't realize how well it was going to go. Not a single bit of downtime in 10 months and I get a VPS with 12 GB of ram for $110/year (not including cpanel. I pay for that separate at buycpanel.com). What I do is pay for the cpanel license separate so I always have control of it no matter where I host my site and then use host rush. The deal I got is not a standard deal. It was a special from webhostingtalk.com but I still recommend you check them out as their prices are still very low even without the extra added discount. The speed is great too. I've leveraged caching just recently so it should improve even beyond that after a while. My site also has low traffic right now because I just got started but it's a great place to at least check out for both you and the above poster if you ever wanted a VPS and didn't want to spend a lot of money. Lots of companies fall short of their expectations, this one did not and exceeded what I could even imagine. I'd like to also mention I had 5 TB Bandwidth on my plan and wasn't sure if in the future I would need more so requested another deal on a better package and they offered me an upgrade to 9 TB with absolutely no charge.

But yes indeed I know the whole hosting support failure type deals. It's quite ridiculous and I find that most offshore companies I've been with have terrible communication skills. My host is in the united states. But they are indeed genuine. Anyways if you want to view a whole variety of hosts and their deals definitely check out https://www.webhostingtalk.com they are incredible at providing deals from their community of web hosts. Basically it's a bunch of hosts that post their deals in certain areas of the site and you can search through them and find the best one you like.

But as far as siteground goes, I hope it works out. I've heard several users use them as well and haven't heard any complaints from them either. Definitely good luck!

 

[hauntmaster]

Thanks @Brad Padgett . Your advice is sound and something I have heard from others as well. I spent way too many hours researching all of this(shared hosting vs VPS vs etc). The bottom line, for me, is that I have a responsible full time job and am not a technology guy. I have become a site administrator by default almost and the concept of doing what you said above, while I know very easy to you and others, terrifies me lol. I'm sure others feel the same way I do. That is why I always go towards the vendors who will do the most hand holding when needed(eg....Pixel Exit---who as an aside I can't say enough good things about literally---Russ is the best)