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Premium by Waindigo [Deleted]

Discussion in 'Add-on Releases' started by Jon W, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. Jon W

    Jon W Well-Known Member

    Jon W submitted a new resource:

    Premium by Waindigo - Unlock the premium features of your Waindigo add-ons, including branding removal.

    Read more about this resource...
  2. Brent W

    Brent W Well-Known Member

    Can't install:

    The callback class 'Waindigo_InstallUpgrade_Option_Undismiss' for option 'waindigo_premium_overrideNoDismiss' is not valid.
    Jon W likes this.
  3. Jon W

    Jon W Well-Known Member

  4. SoeHoe

    SoeHoe Active Member

    GBP30 for all add-ons or GBP30 per add-ons?

    IMO, upgrade all add-ons means all add-ons released by Waindigo, means unlimited add-ons. But i read something different in your website. Please clarify!

    otto likes this.
  5. Jon W

    Jon W Well-Known Member

    I actually take upgrade all add-ons to mean all add-ons released by Waindigo that you have installed. Since no-one would want to unlock add-ons they don't have installed and they are not charged for them.

    The minimum price to upgrade all add-ons you have installed (which may be all of them if you really wanted to) is £30.

    For arguments sake, lets say you did install all 250 Waindigo add-ons. Then you would need 1 credit for every 4 members on your site. Since our lowest priced package has 5 credits, then if you had 20 or fewer members, you could upgrade for £30. So it is possible, but it is a very small site.

    I'm going to suggest that it is highly unlikely that anyone would want to install all 250 Waindigo add-ons. In fact, of all users of our Install and Upgrade by Waindigo add-on, the highest number of add-ons that has ever been encountered was just over 170, and the majority of those weren't Waindigo add-ons. By the same measure, the average number of add-ons installed on a XenForo site is about 25, and most of those won't be Waindigo add-ons. Also, don't forget that this add-on and the Install and Upgrade by Waindigo add-on don't count towards the total. So, for arguments sake, lets say the average person installs 10 Waindigo add-ons.

    Then for £30, you would need 1 credit for every 100 members on your site, so a site of 1,000 or fewer members could upgrade for £30.

    This is still a relatively small site, which is why we don't offer any packages for less than £30 and why I have used the words from £30 per year. But for a site that is just starting up, I would hope that £30 would cover them for a good period of time.

    Given that most other premium add-ons probably cost around £60 including branding removal, this works out a good 95% cheaper for a site of no more than 1,000 members. In fact, at £480 per year, our top-priced, unlimited sites/members option is still much cheaper than buying 10 other add-ons at £60 each!

    I hope this clarifies things.
  6. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    I don't understand your premium account upgrades at all.

    What does "5k members" mean? Is that 5k unique users accessing your site? Is it the number of registered users you have? The number online at any one time? All of those have serious flaws as any kind of metric to price an Addon against.

    I also don't understand your example above. You say that your example is for 10 addons but that means you have to buy the 10 credit option as at a minimum you need 1 credit per Addon. That's £48 a year, not the £30 you claim above.

    Bottom line, you seem to have a really confusing pricing system that's seems pretty flawed.
    otto, imthebest, tajhay and 3 others like this.
  7. Jon W

    Jon W Well-Known Member

    It is the number of members registered on your site. We figured it was a good figure to use as it is visible by default on your XenForo homepage. Yes it is flawed, but having no metric at all is even more flawed in my opinion.

    I think you can safely assume that if I used it in my example then it is allowed.

    Do you have a solution that isn't flawed?
  8. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    I don't see any good reason to charge by the number of users on a site unless it's for an Addon that the author needs to host some component off (like a chat room).

    Not according to your upgrade page. Hence "confusing". It's even worse when your example doesn't appear to be one of the allowed combinations. You're saying that you could purchase the 5 credit option for 10 addons but that's not an option on your upgrade page.
    otto and imthebest like this.
  9. nrep

    nrep Well-Known Member

    Just charge people a fixed fee to use a specific addon, and skip all the licensing check bloat. That's what people expect to see, a price per add-on (varying with complexity). So many people have complained about the licencing check bloat, confusing pricing etc... and it puts people off buying your addons (like me). Just name a price for an addon and charge that amount. Have ones that a free or paid, but not this complex hybrid. I didn't understand your "donations" mechanism before and I find this unnecessarily complex.

    Just keep it simple!

    Of course, it's your addons and company - but people will vote with their feet.
    otto, Newt, kontrabass and 3 others like this.
  10. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    Also how does it work if I have say 4100 users and purchase the sub-5K package but gain 600 new users throughout the year. Does that immediately invalidate my license? Or is the "member" criteria only assessed when the Addon is purchased (in which case I'd purchase the Addon before importing any users if I were migrating)? Or is the license difference pro-rated from when I pass one of the thresholds?

    Again, needlessly complicated and also too vague on how it works in practice.
    otto and imthebest like this.
  11. Jon W

    Jon W Well-Known Member

    I'll leave that to your conscience. The system is pretty lenient and I don't make a habit of chasing down people who are making a contribution towards the development of add-ons for the community. If you're deliberately trying to play the system then expect to get a full refund because I don't want your money.
  12. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    I was just trying to point out that you have ridiculously complicated licensing requirements that you're not even going to police anyway and you haven't even specified what the requirements are in practice. That's not how licenses should work. It should be clear on both sides of the contract what is being offered/expected.

    My other point still stands as well. Your example is not a valid scenario according to your own license page.
    otto, imthebest and tajhay like this.
  13. Jon W

    Jon W Well-Known Member

    Let me be clear, I have the right to allow or not to allow anyone I wish to use the add-ons I develop on commercial sites or to remove branding. The only rights that you have that cannot be revoked are those under the Creative Commons license under which all my add-ons are licensed:

    So, yes, you are taking a risk when you purchase a subscription or make a donation or contribute towards an add-on. But surely it would be professional suicide to revoke someone's rights unless there was a valid reason, right?

    As I've explained above, I have the right to allow or not to allow anyone I wish to use the add-ons I develop on commercial sites or to remove branding. If I say it is valid, then it is valid because I'm the one who decides what is valid and what isn't valid in this scenario.
  14. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    Are you sure about that? I thought EU law said differently..?

    Also, you still seem to be massively missing the point. Your license options are ridiculously complicated and as it stands, you can't purchase a license in the configuration you state in your example. If your example is valid, then your license page is inadequate. It's all well and good saying "but I'd allow it anyway" but it's very confusing when none of your (many!) license options provide what you state in your example.
    otto and imthebest like this.
  15. Jon W

    Jon W Well-Known Member

    I have no idea but if that's true then that is good for you presumably. Since I have no plans to revoke any rights, it really doesn't concern me a great deal right now.

    Think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
  16. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    Fair enough, I'm ready to give up as well :)

    Good luck
  17. tajhay

    tajhay Well-Known Member

    Has ANYONE (besides Jon) been able to make sense out of his pricing structure yet?
    otto and imthebest like this.
  18. oman

    oman Well-Known Member

    No, but managed to make sense of the cost though.
  19. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    @Jon W I saw you posted 2 premium add-ons then shortly removed them, why did you decide get away from that?

    DragonByte tech seem to of done well for themselves offering "lite" versions and then the paid versions of the same add-on with more features.

    I guess I just don't see why you almost "punish" big boards because they are or were successful in the past. If my forum grows a ton in a year and come renewal time your setup is basically saying... "oh hey congratulations on your forum growth, your renewal fee just increased by 500%".

    You can bet if XenForo changed renewals to increase depending on your forum size we'd have the pitchforks out on them too :D.

    That being said I'm no big board owner and I could get away with a cheap yearly package from you, but I just don't see this as a viable solution which is why I'm trying to be constructive about it all so the XenForo community can continue to see your plugins. If you feel this setup will allow you to attract and retain customers to keep your business growing then best of luck with it.
    otto, ge66, Newt and 4 others like this.
  20. |Jordan|

    |Jordan| Active Member

    Another problem with charging per member is it includes banned members and spammers.

    I too am confused by the pricing system, monthly prices really aren't needed. You should just stick to yearly pricing. If someone installs a plugin, its generally for life (of the website), not for a low period of time like 1 month.

    @Jon W, if you want to understand how the majority of us don't understand your pricing structure then do this: sleep deprive yourself and fast for 48 hours (this should make it so that you're running on zero energy/mental capacity). Then try to understand your pricing structure.

    I started a poll in the off topic forum to see if anyone else in the Xenforo community thinks its confusing. You can vote here.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
    otto and imthebest like this.

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