Not What You Want to Hear: That Legal Case!

Gene Steinberg

Well-known member
I am very sympathetic to your cause, and I hope you'll prevail in the lawsuit from the publishers of vBulletin.

On the other hand, if the courts surprise you — and they can be unpredictable — how do you indemnify people who have invested in your product? Are they potentially liable in the event that the verdict goes against you, because they'd be using software that supposedly infringes on another product? Not to mention one that may never be updated.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting for a moment that you will lose. But I do want to start moving our forums to Xenforo starting with your 1.1 version, and I just need to feel better about the process.

Where's this stand (and forgive me if there's another tread on the subject that I've missed)?
 
While some say that this lawsuit should not sway anyone from purchasing, I think that it sways me.
I came here today with money in hand to purchase XenForo and now I'm not so confident.
I will stick with phpbb3 for a tad bit longer, but I will be back to purchase a license when the dust settles...

Respectfully,
Matthew

And while I don't like it, this is perfectly understandable.
 
While some say that this lawsuit should not sway anyone from purchasing, I think that it sways me.
I came here today with money in hand to purchase XenForo and now I'm not so confident.
I will stick with phpbb3 for a tad bit longer, but I will be back to purchase a license when the dust settles...

Respectfully,
Matthew

This.
 
I think a lot of people are holding off. Not only does the spectre of the lawsuit diminish ones enthusiasm for the product, the uncertinty of future products and featres does as well. So yeah, holding off is really a sound choice if you're taking this from a business perspective.
 
Not only does the spectre of the lawsuit diminish ones enthusiasm for the product, the uncertinty of future products and featres does as well. So yeah, holding off is really a sound choice if you're taking this from a business perspective.

I only need to login to my XF AdminCP to get enthusiastic. I've not had that feeling with vB in years. I thought buying three Suite licenses for vB4 was smart, from a business perspective, and look where that got me. I run 1 of them, and cannot wait to dump it.

I own 6 or so xF licenses, and am entirely confident that the lawsuit will work out in favour of XenForo Ltd. I enjoy working wityh xF, and as such, from a business perspective, xF makes total sense to me :)
 
I think a lot of people are holding off. Not only does the spectre of the lawsuit diminish ones enthusiasm for the product, the uncertinty of future products and featres does as well. So yeah, holding off is really a sound choice if you're taking this from a business perspective.

Wise advice.
 
I think a lot of people are holding off. Not only does the spectre of the lawsuit diminish ones enthusiasm for the product, the uncertinty of future products and featres does as well. So yeah, holding off is really a sound choice if you're taking this from a business perspective.

I have no objective way of knowing whether "a lot of people are holding off." That said, I can say that from the posts that at least some folks are holding off. A few people have said as much. I would not be surprised if these folks who bother to post are not representative of a higher number who are holding off.

But, I strongly disagree that holding off is a sound choice from a "business perspective." If you mean that those holding off because XF currently does not meet their needs, well, then you have a point. If you mean that, assuming XF meets their needs and is a superior product in their view, but is somehow risky because of the lawsuit, then I would say that is not a sound choice. Though not possible to quantify with mathematical precision, I think you can at least weigh the factors. What risk is there? Well, as a result of the lawsuit, I think the only risk would be that XF cannot afford to defend itself and has to go out of business. I say this because the merits of the lawsuit...well, strike that, the suit is meritless. That said, there are potential consequences of defending the suit. For example, the litigation costs could force them out of business. I discount this possibility based on two facts. First, they have so far engaged the services of a very strong legal team, have so far litigated their case with some success- including dismissal of several claims in the CA case, and the CA case looks to be winding up in the next few months. It is highly unlikely that the additional costs of legal services would push them out of business. Second, in the UK case, IB has to post security (bond) to continue the case. If XF wins, at each stage, IB must pay their costs. So, overall, given the meritless claims, the near resolution of the CA case, and the security that IB must pay to continue the UK case, it seems that there is little risk.

I think that if you applied the same reasoning, to say, Apple or Microsoft, which each have claims of patent infringement against them, and you said, well, something could potentially happen and so, I won't use their product based on the "risk"...well, you would be foregoing a product that may be very useful to you. (Before anyone points this out, I will admit that XF, as a new company, does not have the deep pockets of Apple or Microsoft...however, in a perfect storm of legal liability, each could be wiped out if they were to found to be major infringers- some might find fault with the analogy...no need to argue it; it is admittedly imperfect. But, if you take it for its illustrative purpose, I think it works).

All of this is my opinion. And I certainly don't fault anyone who does not feel comfortable making a purchase for any reason. I just point out that I disagree with the basis of the decision not to purchase based on any risk of a lawsuit. Frankly, I would be far more worried that a bus might hit one of the principals of XF or a meteor might fall out of the sky and wipeout Ashley, Mike, and/or Kier in one fell swoop. Could happen. But it won't.

No worries, though. XF will still be here when the lawsuit debacle is ended. Look forward to having the folks who are waiting to be part of the XF community when that happens. I just think that if you want the software, there really is no reason to wait. Until, then...
 
From a "business perspective" can also mean time of implementation, not just features. A business would not want to dive into a short lived product then again spend resources porting back or to another platform. This is understandable to me.
 
While some say that this lawsuit should not sway anyone from purchasing, I think that it sways me.
I came here today with money in hand to purchase XenForo and now I'm not so confident.
I will stick with phpbb3 for a tad bit longer, but I will be back to purchase a license when the dust settles...

Respectfully,
Matthew

You and thousands like you are why XF should counter sue IB for lost revenues

plus a nice FAT million dollar +++ plus penalty. o_O
 
Those who say they are holding off because of the lawsuit even though the software meets their requirements need to consider the soundness of their decision. I will not even go into the merit of the lawsuits or lack of it. The point to consider is, how long do you think until the lawsuits settle? There are two lawsuits in two different countries and they may take two years or so to be settled. Once they are settled one way or another, the losing party may appeal, which may again take months or years to settle. By a very approximate estimate, and please correct me if I am wrong, you are "holding out" for at least another 2-3 years.

So consider this again, in spite of the fact that the software meets your needs currently and by it's past record would undoubtedly excel in another 2-3 years you are waiting on the fence watching all that awesomeness from a distance worrying about a lawsuit which affects you personally in no way and has practically zero chance of dying. Even if the xF was to be "snatched away" from it's creators, no one burns off Gold down the gutters, at least not a profit centric business house like IB. So what have you, the buyer, got to lose by purchasing xF, if it meets your needs?
 
surprised that no one has mentioned this:
In my opinion, it is no coincidence that Internet Brands (IB) filed their frivolous lawsuit around the time
xenForo was available for purchase. I think IB wanted to create a fear amongst potential XF customers to prevent a mass switch from vB to XF

Think about it.
 
surprised that no one has mentioned this:
In my opinion, it is no coincidence that Internet Brands (IB) filed their frivolous lawsuit around the time
xenForo was available for purchase. I think IB wanted to create a fear amongst potential XF customers to prevent a mass switch from vB to XF

Think about it.

This has been mentioned a few times, but not in this thread. It's no coincidence at all. They knew exactly what they were doing, and so did we.
 
Well, one supposes that a win for XenForo during the next encounter could fuel a counter suit for a few hundred million dollars. Now that would be fascinating if it happens. But as I said before, civil court actions can sometimes linger for years and years without resolution, particularly if one or both parties have deep pockets to sustain the legal fees.
 
Not really fussed if XF loses (though it is highly unlikely) - I'm not going to stop using it or developing for it.

The only software I'd be even slightly happy running in place of XF is MyBB, and it's nowhere near as nice to develop for.
It is not like MAK cannot create another business, if this ship sinks. What is next IB is going to ban them forever on making money with a keyboard? :ROFLMAO:
 
Very simply and honestly put.

well, if you read annual reports of companies, you will figure that each and every company is engaged in some kind of lawsuits. Either they are suing a competitor or being sued for various reasons.
Lawsuits nowadays are just a normal business-practice and business-strategy. Who cares?

Facebook for example has tons of lawsuits in their face and is suing other companies for using the word "book" in their domain name.
So are you stopping to use Facebook because Mark Zuckerberg is being sued ? Go ahead and quickly delete your Facebook-page because you are in danger!!!! :p
http://www.wacktrap.com/people/soci...w-lawsuit-ceglia-claims-84-facebook-ownership
 
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