Mods Or Add-On's Anyone Every Feel Guilty?

[Victor]

One wonders if you can't afford 10 dollars to buy a mod, how can you afford to pay 140-150 dollars to buy a paid forum software, not to mention the costs of the server.

Even though it is really none of your business how I can afford a software I will tell you.

Xenforo has been paid in full like everyone else, although I am still paying a friend of mine who loaned me the money to get it. He really didn't understand why I would even want to purchase such a thing but than again that wasn't his business.

I also did mention that I have donated to one already here, and I have donated more to many others such as vbulletin, mybb. I guess everyone here just didn't understand what I said, "I FEEL SOMEWHAT GUILTY WHEN I CAN'T DONATE"

End of my Story and I am sticking to it.

Continue on Now

 

[Wildcat Media]

However, I fear that if we introduce a system whereby authors can easily charge for resources posted here, you may find that suddenly everything has a charge attached to it, which would be bad for XenForo and its users, as it may have the effect of stunting the add-on community and make the platform less attractive to potential customers as a whole, which would have a knock-on effect for those charged resources as well of course.

Agreed, completely.

My gut instinct also feels that XF Ltd. should not get in the middle of such transactions, as some may see XF as being liable if the add-on, even though written by a third party, causes a problem (such as data corruption or security breach) that costs the forum owner or end users a financial loss. In law school (which a friend of mine is attending), you are taught that when naming parties in a lawsuit, you name everybody you can right up front.

Another idea is to run a marketplace or "classifieds" section and let users conduct transactions between themselves; I feel this is the safer route to go. Our "big board" has a thriving marketplace area, but in the few times we have had buyer/seller disputes (mainly for non-shipment of items), we have pointed to our rules, saying that the members must work it out themselves. There was only one time that a member did not respond to us, and we suspended him indefinitely until he showed up again. We only lifted his suspension long enough to clear up his transgressions, then permanently banned him.

That would be my thought right there--maybe offer the mechanism for add-on authors to post and collect payment for their wares, but make sure it is as detached from the XF company as possible, with plenty of disclaimers clearly posted to let others know that XF is not liable for what the add-on does, or the transaction between buyer and seller.

 

[Anthony Parsons]

Yep... by the sounds of this add-on system XF are building, I think it has great promise to be independent to the author and a nice legal UK disclaimer should cover it, especially if devs are entering their paypal emails in their add-on page, keep XF out of the equation.

Thinking about the add-on features... one could go further to allow:

• free download
• donations
• payment for download to appear
• payment for copyright removal, requiring URL to be entered
• Any combination off...

All independent of XF itself, but a real system for devs to run their mods from, and users are harsh when given rating and feedback system against dodgy developers, so I think that alone will quickly handle it. Just need to make sure devs don't have the ability to turn such features off, and are forced to be scrutinized.

I think that is the best single aspect of the system outlined in the announcement, because everyone covering negative experiences here will be able to enter them against the developer and mod directly... which will affect the developers status for XF users to use them in the future or not.

I am really getting tired of all these independent sites being linked to mods, go here, register here, download the mod... support disappears, etc etc... that is driving me nutty compared to the devs having a full featured, all-in-one solution here, so they get critiqued by their users. I know that would keep me in line if I wanted to sell further products here or pay for copyright removal, etc.

There are some really good developers here, then there are some average ones, and then some dash for cash and disappear ones. I trust that this new add-on system will sort this out quick smart.

 

[bogus]

@borbole: Who said that i did not spend money on any mods around here? You take this a bit to personaly and its not the point of this thread to make a borbole - bogus discussion of it. anyway...leave it as it, think what you want... Also my english isnt good enough for this.

 

[EQnoble]

I think this is a case of mis understanding here.

So let me get this straight, as long as you don't get to spend a cent on paid mods or anything then that is supporting the system and when mod authors charge for their work, that is being selfish? So the mod authors should work for free for you so you can have anything and depend on "your generosity" when you "donate" to them?

I believe bogus was trying to say before ( correct me if I am wrong bogus )

He does not support those he believes only to be here because it is a chance for them to make money and not really support their mods only because xenforo being rather new and has a need for many different kinds of mods. He is not saying people can't charge for their mods if they want, I belive he is saying he just wont put his money where it is not deserved in his own opinion.

 

[Kier]

He is not saying people can't charge for their mods if they want, I belive he is saying he just wont put his money where it is not deserved in his own opinion.

Sounds to me like basic market economics - if one considers something to be not worthy of the price its creator attaches to it, one does not purchase it.

Let's just clear some things up here:

1. For its initial deployment, here at XenForo.com, the resources manager will not handle payments for resources. This is not an idealistic or moral decision, it's simply a case of wanting to get the most important features rolled out here as soon as possible.
2. In subsequent versions of the resources manager, it will probably have the facility to handle payments for resources.
3. When and if it does so, we will probably make use of those features in order to allow people to sell their resources here on XenForo.com.
4. The manner in which payments would be handled has yet to be decided.
5. We will continue to encourage people to offer their resources for free to the community, but recognise that there is also a market for paid resources. That is fine with us, and we welcome it.

 

[Sadik B]

I agree with Anthony here. People who will sell their addons here will have to be extra careful because users are quick to write bad things if they are no happy. That alone should work as a deterrent if people who want to sell are not serious. As Kier says, market economics takes care of bad products. If people don't feel it's not good, people won't buy them. I just feel XF should give some sort of symbolic encouragement to authors to publish their resources for free. Something like a Badge or something. That means people who do it for the passion will enjoy posting resources for free at the same taking nothing away from Paid Mod authors.

 

[Digital Doctor]

I don't believe donating works for either party myself.

It's definitely a double fail.

The other is a lovely simple business relationship, I buy, you support.. you have financial motivation to keep it up to date, and we all win.

This is the way forward. Keep the costs down so people don't feel they are breaking the bank.
Everyone is happy.
Xenforo *NEEDS* to be the middleman.

 

[Digital Doctor]

I would love to see the XF system incorporate an ability for the dev to just implement directly with a payment button from the page, so we don't have to go across to some other site, and instead you can buy mods directly from the developer here through their paypal, with support all in one location, then we can use the rating system XF have incorporated to rate mods and their developers so lots of customers don't get sucked into bad developers dash for cash, then do nothing for it.

This is a very good idea.

 

[D.O.A.]

So basically xenforo becomes a mod retailer also. Not just a middleman.

Here in the UK, Apple is acting as a retailer when you purchase from the App Store, and an app that no longer performs as it was sold would probably be regarded as a defective product; our strong consumer protection laws could leave Apple liable for issuing refunds to customers if so. It's far from clear cut, however.

I see no reason why this wouldn't apply here. Xenforo ltd would have to examine all paid mods before allowing sale?

 

[Onimua]

So basically xenforo becomes a mod retailer also. Not just a middleman.

I see no reason why this wouldn't apply here. Xenforo ltd would have to examine all paid mods before allowing sale?

Details probably won't come about how exactly it will be handled since we won't be able to charge for add-ons just yet when the Resource Manager is released here for our use soon.

 

[Slavik]

I am really getting tired of all these independent sites being linked to mods, go here, register here, download the mod... support disappears, etc etc... that is driving me nutty compared to the devs having a full featured, all-in-one solution here, so they get critiqued by their users.

Exactly what I was thinking,

 

[User]

FWIW I don't think XF should be a retailer or a middleman for that matter. XF should be a service provider which connects devs to customers. The transaction is strictly between the dev and the client and XF takes no more part in it than Craigslist takes part in the transaction between folks who buy and sell stuff on there. Doing anything else would be ..., well ..., crazy, because it would completely bog the system down if XF had to evaluate mods, deal with payments, charge-backs, support, yadda yadda yadda.

XF should still get paid for providing a framework which allows devs to easily connect to clients. Whether that's an annual fee a dev needs to pay to take advantage of the service, or whether it's a per-transaction-payment that XF will then collect from the dev (rather than skimming it by having the client pay XF and then XF pay the dev) can be sorted out in due time.

Obviously everyone loves free stuff, but I think that if XF were to implement this feature for free then the resource would get swamped with mediocre mods created by people who aren't committed to supporting them. On the other hand if devs have to pay to participate then that creates a higher expectation for the resource manager to work and essentially increases accountability on XF's side.

 

[Fred Sherman]

I have no objection to paying for add-ons. My biggest concern is in knowing what exactly I am paying for. When I purchase an add-on, my expectation is that I am purchasing the rights to execute the software as well as for some period of maintenance and support.

If it is an "as-is" purchase with no support or maintenance, then my expectation is that I own my copy of the actual code itself. I am free to modify and maintain it myself, including remove any author branding. When I put my name to something, I stand by it. So if a developer brands their software, they had better as well.

I've come to these beliefs through personal experience. The VBGeek. Need I say more?

 

[jmurrayhead]

The VBGeek. Need I say more?

Please do. I never heard of it.

 

[Fred Sherman]

The VBGeek made great software, some really innovative stuff at the time. I owned every one of his mods and they were an important part of one of my sites. Then one day, he disappeared. Sold the site and the code and moved onto IP.Board from what I had heard.

I did some self-maintenance for awhile, but eventually had to abandon his software completely.

Others have had similar experiences: http://xenforo.com/community/threads/project-tools-for-xenforo.9761/#post-133524

 

[jmurrayhead]

The VBGeek made great software, some really innovative stuff at the time. I owned every one of his mods and they were an important part of one of my sites. Then one day, he disappeared. Sold the site and the code and moved onto IP.Board from what I had heard.

I did some self-maintenance for awhile, but eventually had to abandon his software completely.

Others have had similar experiences: http://xenforo.com/community/threads/project-tools-for-xenforo.9761/#post-133524

aah I see. Thanks for the explain.

 

[tenants]

. On the other hand if devs have to pay to participate then that creates a higher expectation for the resource manager to work and essentially increases accountability on XF's side.

If this were the case, I don't think I would continue adding/supporting mods..

I've started creating Add-ons that I need, and my site is competing with a local council site. The council has put lots of money into developing not only a forum, but the forum software (as you would expect from Local Councils, it's very bloated, slow and a waste of money... unlike XenForo)

The copyright for each of my add-on helps market my forum and compete with these other sites, so I'm happy for people not to pay for any Mods that I make (as long as they keep the copyright).

I make Add-ons firstly for my own forum and extend them to be useful for others. If I had to "pay to participate", I would simply continue to develop them for personal use only.

 

[Forsaken]

If this were the case, I don't think I would continue adding/supporting mods..

I've started creating Add-ons that I need, and my site is competing with a local council site. The council has put lots of money into developing not only a forum, but the forum software (as you would expect from Local Councils, it's very bloated, slow and a waste of money... unlike XenForo)

The copyright for each of my add-on helps market my forum and compete with these other sites, so I'm happy for people not to pay for any Mods that I make (as long as they keep the copyright).

I make Add-ons firstly for my own forum and extend them to be useful for others. If I had to "pay to participate", I would simply continue to develop them for personal use only.

I think it was more about paid add-ons than free ones.