Not planned Like should cause an upvote

Mr Lucky

Well-known member
I note on here that people are sometimes liking a suggestion but not voting it up. It would make sense to me that for a suggestion or an answer to question, that a positive reaction should cause a vote to be cast.

Especially (as with my other suggestion: https://xenforo.com/community/threads/voting-system-needs-to-be-more-obvious.182047/, unless it is made more obvious there is a voting system many people won't even know to vote as it's just a number and an arrow tucked way over on the right.
 
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Taylor J

Well-known member
What if someone is liking a persons reply that is not an answer at all (or a suggestion)? They could be liking it because they found it funny which really shouldn't be counted as an upvote (there are 4 "positive" reactions here and only one of them should properly be used as an upvote).
 

Mr Lucky

Well-known member
What if someone is liking a persons reply that is not an answer at all (or a suggestion)? They could be liking it because they found it funny which really shouldn't be counted as an upvote (there are 4 "positive" reactions here and only one of them should properly be used as an upvote).
True, but it could just be like or love then....I have edited my OP.

My point is that even here, I noted people liking a suggestion without voting.
 

ge66

Well-known member
I think it would be a good idea to have a long think about this. The developers might have had that already.

Maybe you should not be able to react to the first post in a suggestion at all.

Maybe the like-link should say Vote, instead and have up-vote and/or down-vote only.

Users using Like on suggestions now isn't strange I think, as it is how it has been done earlier.
 

Mr Lucky

Well-known member
Maybe you should not be able to react to the first post in a suggestion at all.
Makes sense

Maybe the like-link should say Vote, instead and have up-vote and/or down-vote only.
As does that
Users using Like on suggestions now isn't strange I think, as it is how it has been done earlier.
Which confirms my other suggesting about the vote system not being obvious what it is

https://xenforo.com/community/threads/voting-system-needs-to-be-more-obvious.182047/
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
Was looking for something else, stumbled across this.

I personally had a concern about this initially but I think people are getting used to it now. For this forum particularly we were asking people to perform an entirely new action when for the previous 10 years we've been telling people to perform a different one.

I think the adjustment is happening and don't see a need for us to engineer a solution.
 

RobinHood

Well-known member
As per my suggestion here, I think the current system is flawed and is open to missing votes due to ambiguity between the reaction system and upvote system and something should be done to remove this issue to ensure votes are always tallied correctly, or at leased tallied based on intent.

How many thousands of other sites has users conditioned to reacting positively to a post by reacting positively? This will also cause an issue on other XF sites the all of a sudden roll out suggestion forums with an upvote system that is also active on the same post you can also react to.

If the amount of upvotes is the most important factor with regards to the first post in that forum then the reaction system should be disabled for the first post.

Again, I'm not sure what the perfect system is, but I think the current one is flawed.
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
No changes are planned. All-in on upvotes/downvotes and existing sites - I don't think it's anywhere near thousands - will have to adjust.
 

RobinHood

Well-known member
Fair enough, but I still think it's a UI issue even for new sites.

If the point of the forum is to garner upvotes for suggestions, and users are clearly accidentally liking the post instead of upvoting on xf.com then I'm sure it'll be an issue on other sites.

Why not remove the ambiguity of users reacting vs upvoting on the first post to ensure you're definitely getting accurate upvote data?
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
It's not clearly happening.

I just checked a bunch in the database and in most cases the likes are duplications from users who have also upvoted.

Why not let people express both a reaction and an upvote if they wish to?

What if a "Wow" reaction (which wouldn't have been counted at all previously, btw, as it's neutral) is the reaction a suggestion invokes in someone, and they support the suggestion? Why should they not be able to do that?
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
As in you intended to give a reaction and you intended not to signal support for the suggestion? In other words you knew your reaction wouldn't count but you wanted to give some signal to the author of your reaction to it?
 

beerForo

Well-known member
Right, as in there's a case for both, especially considering other people's use cases and niches.

For XF specifically, maybe I like something but I'd rather XF spend their time on another suggestion so I prioritize and vote accordingly.
 

RobinHood

Well-known member
It's not clearly happening.
Okay, maybe not clearly, but there's definitely been at a least a few people who have picked up on it here on in the beta stage, so I could see it becoming an issue on a larger scale.

Why not let people express both a reaction and an upvote if they wish to?
Ideally that would be great, and normally I'd agree. But if the interface is such that even a small number of users are confusing the two systems and intending to upvote with a like, when their vote isn't actually being counted, I'd consider that a pretty big issue, and potentially a regression to the previous system where you could sort by likes, because now the data is tainted by confused user signals.

In a suggestion forum I'd have thought the most important thing is to get top quality vote data from the first post. Either positive, neutral or negative. Funny, sad and angry reactions (or any other custom reactions an admin adds) aren't adding anything to the discussion or voting status of the suggestion. If someone wants to discuss it they should discuss it. If they want to vote for it, it should be a simple vote without the ability for them to accidentally throw their vote away on an accidental like, IMO.
 

beerForo

Well-known member
Everyone has a different use case. If you develop apps for iPhone and someone suggests you do it for Android, someone might want to Angry react. They may also want to vote it down, or in fact vote it up, even though it angers them, because it makes good business sense. Positive, negative, up, down... it's up to the user.
 
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RobinHood

Well-known member
It's called a suggestion forum and is even labelled as allowing users to vote for ideas they like.

1597253547160.png

Tell me there's no ambiguity there when you're presenting them with a like button and an upvote button??

Look, I love reactions. They're amazing. I probably put way too many on my sites. But in a suggestion forum users shouldn't be able to accidentally react by liking the first post when they think they're voting for it if the like doesn't count.

The reason it works on other sites like reddit and stackoverflow is you don't have this ambiguity. People just vote, that's it, there's no reactions in the mix.

I'm only talking about the OP too btw, not replies
 
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