If nulled sites illegal why didnt XF shut them down? How is it possible that nulled sites are up for years?

NandorHUN

Active member
Hi Guys!
I searched for Xenforo today on Facebook and to my suprise nulled sites even has Facebook groups. How is it possible that nulled sites work like that? Even on Facebook without any penalty? Or are they legal?
 

JoyFreak

Well-known member
XenForo has no control over what Facebook or any other social media sites do.
I think you're avoiding the real question here.. I believe he's asking why Nulled websites, aside from Facebook or Facebook groups, are still running to this day and why XenForo hasn't done anything about them. Upon Googling "Nulled XenForo", I came across these sites...:

... and many more that provide nulled XenForo software. Why hasn't XenForo tried to take these sites down, legally? Did they try contact the host provider? Are they willing to go to court to take these sites down that illegally host their software and distribute them across the net?

It's a good question in my opinion but the generic answer is to expected in these cases.
 
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Dragonfruit

Well-known member
It's the same reason why piracy sites are still up, and the music & movie industries invest a lot more towards battling & taking them now. It's generally not an easy legal battle.

Just because they're reported, they don't immediately come down, there's a whole legal process I'm sure XF's legal team has to go through, which of course moves slow, especially internationally.
 

Black Tiger

Active member
It's a hard job to take them all down. For example, I'm a hoster. I wouldn't work like that, but there are hosters enough which, if Xen sends them a takedown notice, they just ignore it, and little that can be done.
So this means another way or a legal lawsuit has to be started. You need info on the forum owner for this and even to get their credentials needed for a law suit can be a menace.
This costs time and time=money. So I think they will limit their effors to the forums which can more easily be closed down and the ones which make big money out of their forum and let the rest be.

And that's not a bad though. This way Xenforo can be kept payable. More legal effort cost more money and guess who is going to pay for that? Right, the people who legally buy their license, so we are.
And for us, IMHO, it's better they use there money to create nice software for us and improve it, rather than spending it on useless lawsuits in which they might get a illegal site down but it's doubtfull they will get the money back they spend on the effort closing it down.

It might be they have other reasons, these are just my thoughts but they seem logical to me.
 

Ozzy47

Well-known member
I think you're avoiding the real question here.. I believe he's asking why Nulled websites, aside from Facebook or Facebook groups, are still running to this day and why XenForo hasn't done anything about them. Upon Googling "Nulled XenForo", I came across these sites...:

Im not avoiding anything. The question really should be put to Facebook or what ever platform is allowing the illegal activity.
 

JoyFreak

Well-known member
It's the same reason why piracy sites are still up, and the music & movie industries invest a lot more towards battling & taking them now. It's generally not an easy legal battle.

Just because they're reported, they don't immediately come down, there's a whole legal process I'm sure XF's legal team has to go through, which of course moves slow, especially internationally.
Agreed. It not only consumes time but also money. It’s more hassle for xenforo than what it’s worth. You don’t see the big sites running on nulled software and by then you’ll have earned something and will be obligated to buy the software anyway. So XenForo doesn’t really lose out in my opinion.

There’s also a stigma behind nulled sites and looked down upon, so many will try to avoid anyway to stay out of trouble. And not that I’m condoning it but I’ve seen a few people using nulled software to get a “feel of it” and then buying it later down the line. And so I think xenforo takes all this into consideration.
 

webbouk

Well-known member
More likely than not it '....doesn't go against their Community Standards' which is the usual line the bots feedback.

I nailed a scammer's account recently after he tried to scam me with a fake profile. Reported it to FB, guess what....
'....doesn't go against their Community Standards'
 

Jaxel

Well-known member
As a kid growing up in the 90s, which was the heyday for piracy just as the crackdowns were beginning... there is something we quickly learned:

People who pirate, are NOT lost income. People who pirate were generally not going to give you money in the first place. So it's not worth the effort to go after them and try to shut them down. You'll be spending money to fight against something that doesn't really cost you money in the first place. And it's a losing battle either way..

HOWEVER, people who pirate, may eventually become paying customers if they appreciate your product enough. I know many, who use piracy as a "try it before you buy it" kind of model. Hell, I do it with retro video games. I'll play a ROM of something, then decide I have to have a physical copy and go out and find it.
 

deslocotoco

Well-known member
I'm a lawyer, specialized in civil rights, digital rights, copyright, compliance and all this kinds of stuff.

Here in Brazil for example, piracy is not forbidden for personal use, you can't just use for making profit for example, in very rare cases piracy can put you in jail. But our country is a juridic mess, so, is just an example. You can download anything, movies, music, software, games, etc., just for PERSONAL USE.

My country is most dominated by left wing ideology and they are things called 'social responsibility' around here that 'justify' this kind of attack against private propriety. In some way, yeah, is not much 'humanitarian' to ban a very poor people from movie theaters because he don't have even a minimum monthly wage to buy a fyckng ticket to see a Marvel movie.

But of course, the 'social responsibility' is used by the most evil and corrupt politics and people around here to justify everything against private property, so, potato, potatoes...

On the other side, if you have a small, medium business and get caught using pirated software, well, you are going to have a big trouble.

Now about the legal work to take this kinds of websites down: the juridic costs are outrageous, specially if this kinds of websites are hosted in others countries, the juridic costs, honorariums, attorney fees would be even bigger for international causes. Even if their are based on UK would be very expensive.

The math is simple: XF make X profit year. To take one or more site down would cost 3X.

Ok, let's take this site down. XF will pay me my fees and juridic costs. The battle is going to endure for at least one year, if we can even find the guys who did, niiiiice, we got the owners, we got the site down and after that? At least 2 other sites are going to show up offering the same things. Is a lost cause guys.

I quote the example of Microsoft and their products: They don't care if you use their pirate softwares for personal use. But if you are a company, a enterprise, making money using their 'nulled' products, well, prepare yourself for a very big legal trouble with outrageous bills and millionaire fees. I've seen even big companies put out of business by Microsoft when they discovered that all the software used by this company was illegal.
 

deslocotoco

Well-known member
People who pirate, are NOT lost income. People who pirate were generally not going to give you money in the first place. So it's not worth the effort to go after them and try to shut them down. You'll be spending money to fight against something that doesn't really cost you money in the first place. And it's a losing battle either way..

HOWEVER, people who pirate, may eventually become paying customers if they appreciate your product enough. I know many, who use piracy as a "try it before you buy it" kind of model. Hell, I do it with retro video games. I'll play a ROM of something, then decide I have to have a physical copy and go out and find it.

Exactly. Very good point.

You can use as example the famous tv show Game Of Thrones: the producers called about this and they even think that the show was a success because of piracy.
 

Max

Well-known member
There are hosts who don't care DMCA and allow to host anything other than child porn. So how many times xF complain they don't care.
Facebook can't take down links just because its coming from a nulled xenforo. So nothing happen to them.

And if those forums become popular and needed better hosting or addon development, they will eventually buy xenforo.
So its not like going after music/movie piracy. MS Windows/Office got popular in the 3rd world just because of the piracy.
 
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TheGroove

Member
While I could never support pirated copies of the board or mods I will say that the process of getting mods here is different and a lot more cumbersome. Most decent mods are paid and I get they deserve something for it but it also comes with the added effort of registering at sites you'll likely never visit again.

I'm not sure if it's because Xenforo has created the "resources" system that they also sell but the process itself lacks any sort of unification other than license validation. This is the first board software I've ever used with this model, downloads are tracked but actual installations are not, and I suspect that's because anyone who charges takes orders through their own sites. In the end, downloading a quality mod here has several hurdles and can be prohibitive.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
While I could never support pirated copies of the board or mods I will say that the process of getting mods here is different and a lot more cumbersome. Most decent mods are paid and I get they deserve something for it but it also comes with the added effort of registering at sites you'll likely never visit again.

I'm not sure if it's because Xenforo has created the "resources" system that they also sell but the process itself lacks any sort of unification other than license validation. This is the first board software I've ever used with this model, downloads are tracked but actual installations are not, and I suspect that's because anyone who charges takes orders through their own sites. In the end, downloading a quality mod here has several hurdles and can be prohibitive.
Even if XF did a marketplace, I would likely manage purchases and installs through my own site as I use to. The reason for this is because I then have full control, and full ability manage and support products the way I want to, without having to deal with whatever hoops the Marketplace requires.

A Marketplace won't prevent piracy either; the sad reality is that most pirate communities are run by those who have legitimate licenses for everything that gets released.

Honestly, it at most takes 5 minutes to register, purchase a product, and validate your product. You also are usually going to get better support or visibility on suggestions on the developers site than you are on XF, because it is a nightmare to keep track of things in a single XF thread or conversations.
 

JamesBrown

Well-known member
I remember a text book I wrote that was selling at around £30 a copy. It got pirated and I got mad. But someone cleverer than me, told me there was nothing I could really do, and the tosspot that steals the book was never going to buy it anyway so there is no loss, so relax.

Then a few months later when looking at the sales graph I saw a significant uptick for physical copies right about the time the eBook was pirated. The thieving toerag did me a favour.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
I remember a text book I wrote that was selling at around £30 a copy. It got pirated and I got mad. But someone cleverer than me, told me there was nothing I could really do, and the tosspot that steals the book was never going to buy it anyway so there is no loss, so relax.

Then a few months later when looking at the sales graph I saw a significant uptick for physical copies right about the time the eBook was pirated. The thieving toerag did me a favour.
That doesn't always happen with XF, though there was a guy who pirated one of my old styles who then bought a proper license, and then paid me to do like 4 custom styles.
 

TheGroove

Member
Exact effort it takes to get pirated add-ons from nulled sites. You gotta register.

And trust them instead of the developer. Makes sense right?
From the looks of it you register once and then download all you want. A convenience that does not exist under this current model here at Xenforo, as it does vBulletin for example.
 
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