I sure miss the old Xenforo days

[zeeb0t]

I'm keeping my forum going as long as possible because it's one of the few AI free and social media crap free zones left on the internet.

IMO this is why stopping the bad bots is so important. Including the AI-agents who want to write their mush into your forums. If we truly keep the content retained, and human, my bet is the will return in popularity for those seeking a more human experience.

 

[ES Dev Team]

What sucks is we have a goldmine of training data because it's mostly human.
We have strict rules against artificial posting ( using for translation purposes is ok ), and also, members will jeer the person doing it.

Thankfully most people hate AI, so not hard to get your members to help you spot it

 

[dvduval]

I think there's a strong argument to utilise AI in such a way that it provides superior functionality e.g. better search to expose existing content relevant to a specific member.

I also think there's an even stronger argument not to use AI to further develop the underlying code. There are too many potential dangers in doing that which in my view are only going to get worse as AI engines become more powerful.

No offense but I think this opinion is going to become a minority quickly. AI is here to stay. It outperforms humans when it comes to software development. But you absolutely need hum involved in the creation of the software and that's not going to change anytime soon.

 

[dvduval]

I'm keeping my forum going as long as possible because it's one of the few AI free and social media crap free zones left on the internet.

Meta is getting pummelled with lawsuits and regulations so it's not a far fetched idea that forums may get an increase because they get forced to cut some of the addictive factors.

My current mood re: social media companies

View attachment 341475

Absolutely, and what's great about forums is there not like social media. If you post today it's not going to be buried in two days. And there's a wealth of knowledge in the forums. Even if AI can copy all of that come in replacement for communities that have their own user base and knowledge base developed over many years. Really making a lot of money is probably not going to happen but monetizing reasonably well is gonna continue to be possible I think.

 

[RobinHood]

I don't think it would take that long, to be honest. $5k and let Fabel at an installed version, so it can read the entire thing, understand it, then make a newer modern system... I reckon it would have it done in under a week. I reckon you could get it to convert just the frontend in under 12hrs, using the backend and its options.

Now that Sol is out, please give this a crack and let us know the token cost, time to produce and deploy and instance of your new XF2-AI Edition so we can test it out

 

[zappaDPJ]

No offense but I think this opinion is going to become a minority quickly. AI is here to stay. It outperforms humans when it comes to software development. But you absolutely need hum involved in the creation of the software and that's not going to change anytime soon.

No offence taken and I completely agree, AI is here to stay and it already outperforms humans in so many ways but in my opinion therein lies the danger. Humans are becoming intrinsically more lazy because of it, placing too much trust in AI developed code.

 

[smallwheels]

placing too much trust in AI developed code

if it only was code only...

 

[dvduval]

No offence taken and I completely agree, AI is here to stay and it already outperforms humans in so many ways but in my opinion therein lies the danger. Humans are becoming intrinsically more lazy because of it, placing too much trust in AI developed code.

It’s still involves a lot of testing. And things that are done the first time are not always good enough and have to be done again. But the latest models are certainly cutting the time needed to reach a viable product.

If I were to rebuild this forum software using AI, I would expect to get to a beta that was working on my own forum it would probably take me somewhere around one month using AI. Some shortcuts would involve using the exact same database schema.

To reach your point where multiple installations were being made, and an ecosystem was needed that involves downloads and updates, that would certainly take a few more months.

I just worked on a product that is a little bigger than this one and it took about nine months to get to Beta. But the AI has improved a lot even during that time.

And let me also point out that I don’t necessarily trust humans as much as AI in some cases also. AI can find a lot of the security problems that humans do not find and that’s what makes it so important to be using AI right now because whatever exploits are available they will be found faster now.

But on the flipside what xenforo how’s it going for it that AI can’t quite match is the number of human testers over the years. However, taking an existing software and just improving it but keeping the same functionality is the perfect match for what could be done here.

 

[RobinHood]

if it only was code only...

I'm seeing more and more ebay listings with fake images of the usernames and dates written on paper to "prove" they have it. You need video proof now, and even that is getting harder to trust.

I had to report a very convincing listing today when the only thing giving it away was when I reverse image searched to sellers profile photo and found the real person in the photo, emailed them to ask if it was really them and they confirmed it wasn't and they were falsely using their image.

I guess the seller scammer should have used an AI generated photo instead of stealing someone's real photo...

 

[RandallC]

I don't check here as much as I use to because I do not currently own a forum. However, The forum is the same and the community is different. We have lost the core coders to other projects and life where stuff was new and exciting. We have lost the friends that were always here to help. They were not friends until the dedicated the time to help the new people. You can be the new generation of help to the new people. The forum is just the catalyst for the community but the people are the community.

Russ helped me more in design and changes then I can think of.
Addons that were free and now paid, themes that use to be cutting edge and unique are all paid. Those two departments I feel slowed down with no new adds to bring people here unless they need help with something. Maybe as a community we need to look at featuring things that people want to be part of. I'm not saying everything needs to be free but it helps bring in people and get them interested.

This time in Xenforo versions is a slow period and people are all waiting and watching but when the new version comes out there are going to be a whole mass of new people that are going to need you and me and everyone to help and be there to build their forums with them.

 

[Suzanne O]

On a personal note,

I prefer to have the xf developers working on the new version and giving us an update on when it's going to be released with a locked HYS so that people don't spend half the time whinging about why it's not out yet.
Even if they release the new editor on Xenforo so we can see what they're going with.

 

[RobinHood]

The lack of seamless video upload and processing has been lacking for years, that and the regression of moving to PWAs instead of real native apps that 3rd party providers used to provide.

 

[ŽivaAkcija]

I don't check here as much as I use to because I do not currently own a forum. However, The forum is the same and the community is different. We have lost the core coders to other projects and life where stuff was new and exciting. We have lost the friends that were always here to help. They were not friends until the dedicated the time to help the new people. You can be the new generation of help to the new people. The forum is just the catalyst for the community but the people are the community.

Russ helped me more in design and changes then I can think of.
Addons that were free and now paid, themes that use to be cutting edge and unique are all paid. Those two departments I feel slowed down with no new adds to bring people here unless they need help with something. Maybe as a community we need to look at featuring things that people want to be part of. I'm not saying everything needs to be free but it helps bring in people and get them interested.

This time in Xenforo versions is a slow period and people are all waiting and watching but when the new version comes out there are going to be a whole mass of new people that are going to need you and me and everyone to help and be there to build their forums with them.

i agree

 

[dvduval]

I don't check here as much as I use to because I do not currently own a forum. However, The forum is the same and the community is different. We have lost the core coders to other projects and life where stuff was new and exciting. We have lost the friends that were always here to help. They were not friends until the dedicated the time to help the new people. You can be the new generation of help to the new people. The forum is just the catalyst for the community but the people are the community.

Russ helped me more in design and changes then I can think of.
Addons that were free and now paid, themes that use to be cutting edge and unique are all paid. Those two departments I feel slowed down with no new adds to bring people here unless they need help with something. Maybe as a community we need to look at featuring things that people want to be part of. I'm not saying everything needs to be free but it helps bring in people and get them interested. A similar thing happened to me

This time in Xenforo versions is a slow period and people are all waiting and watching but when the new version comes out there are going to be a whole mass of new people that are going to need you and me and everyone to help and be there to build their forums with them.

A similar thing happened to me on phpLD. It started out that mod developers and theme developers offered things for free but increasingly they started to rule things. If there was a design idea they had, it would be really bad for us to copy it in the release. If there was modification that would help everybody I couldn't just add the modification to the release because the mod developer made it. Maybe technically I could and I even tried sometimes but then everyone would be yelling at me and telling me what a bad person I was.

Honestly right now it wouldn't be that difficult to use AI to study all the mods and make your own version whether that be by the team here or by anybody who has some knowledge about how things work. One could study all the screenshots and explanation and roll out a mod in minutes in many cases. I actually did exactly that to roll out my own mod to fight off all the bots that were hitting my forum (would be happy to release it for free, but would I be a bad person for helping everyone except the mod developer?). Tell me virtually any mod, and I will duplicate it in minutes to hours (at least get into a working beta).

But do we reach a point where we can just say look it's easy to do this stuff on our own without having to buy a modification? What's wrong with that? And I'm just asking because I don't know. Really I don't anyone would know I did it if I made my own and I would have every right.

Perhaps open source mods could be put into public Github repos (is this within the licensing terms?) And we could all help each other make a better forum software. No need to wait.

 

[Mr Lucky]

but would I be a bad person for helping everyone except the mod developer?)

look it's easy to do this stuff on our own without having to buy a modification? What's wrong with that?

Copyright?

 

[dvduval]

Copyright?

Yes I hear you. But do you feel like mod developers should be able to own parts of the real estate says that the only way to get that type of modification is through the developer? And what if it is easy not to copy them exactly but just to make your own version using AI which I already did in one case? And if it is now easy to make any modification why not put it all out there and make it available to everybody so we can help each other have better software faster rather than there be a gate that stops progression?

 

[Mr Lucky]

But do you feel like mod developers should be able to own parts of the real estate says that the only way to get that type of modification is through the developer?

I don’t know what you mean by real estate. I think they just own the rights to their creative code.

If you, or ai, copies (or duplicates as you mentioned above) that code it is an infringement of that copyright.

 

[dvduval]

I don’t know what you mean by real estate. I think they just own the rights to their creative code.

If you, or ai, copies (or duplicates as you mentioned above) that code it is an infringement of that copyright.

Yes, This happens with a lot of software products. You get a lot of mod developers who are in essence gatekeepers where you can't really get everything unless you buy more. And for the developers of the software they can't add these same features even if they would be great for everybody. They have to require people to go through the mod developers.

I don't believe it would be a copyright infringement to make a similar mod, And an additional level of protection would be if Someone makes the mod for themselves using AI And not making an exact duplicate, Or secondly if people make open source code that offers similar features but people work together and open repositories and also use AI code. An idea is not copyrighted but the code itself or the text and potentially even aspects of the interface could be copyrighted.

So in the case of making a modification that controls bots and helps to stop a forum from being overrun by them, there is plenty of knowledge out there about how to do that and we do not need to rely on the original mod developer to make that mod. The idea to make a mod that prevents bots from overrunning a forum is not copyrighted. And I'm sure a similar argument could be made for most every modification.

 

[Mr Lucky]

Yes, This happens with a lot of software products. You get a lot of mod developers who are in essence gatekeepers where you can't really get everything unless you buy more. And for the developers of the software they can't add these same features even if they would be great for everybody. They have to require people to go through the mod developers.

I don't believe it would be a copyright infringement to make a similar mod, And an additional level of protection would be if Someone makes the mod for themselves using AI And not making an exact duplicate, Or secondly if people make open source code that offers similar features but people work together and open repositories and also use AI code. An idea is not copyrighted but the code itself or the text and potentially even aspects of the interface could be copyrighted.

So in the case of making a modification that controls bots and helps to stop a forum from being overrun by them, there is plenty of knowledge out there about how to do that and we do not need to rely on the original mod developer to make that mod. The idea to make a mod that prevents bots from overrunning a forum is not copyrighted. And I'm sure a similar argument could be made for most every modification.

You mentioned duplicating, which would be a copyright infringement

Tell me virtually any mod, and I will duplicate it

 

[dvduval]

You mentioned duplicating, which would be a copyright infringement

Copying/duplicating an idea like a traffic radar to track and block bots would not be copyright infringement if the code is not copied, and overall it is a new/different mod but achieves similar goals. Mod developers do this all the time. And with AI we can do exactly the same thing.

An interesting thing to check would be if Xenforo Blocks themselves from improving the product because they are not allowed to use the ideas of a mod developer to build a feature that everyone would benefit from (like not having their site go down unless they have a feature to prevent being overrun by bots!

Don't take events as I'm exaggerating here, but might we say something like:
"Welcome to Xenforo. Thank you for your purchase and downloading our product And by the way you really can't use it for a big forum right now because it's going to get overrun by bots unless you buy a mod."

So I would counter that and just say that people have a right to use the existing software as it is but create their own mods to protect themselves or otherwise help themselves to be more successful with their forum. And yes they can use AI to do that. And yes, it's pretty easy. And finally in many cases most mods we see here were done in other software products first so the idea is already out there.