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How many times is the license transferable

Discussion in 'XenForo Pre-Sales Questions' started by ugurkn, Jan 2, 2015.

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  1. ugurkn

    ugurkn Member

    As EU has new rules for digital products it's possible to sell as unlimited times for these.Now my question is how many times can be the license transferred before this kind of rule it was 1 time has this now been affected by the change.

  2. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

  3. ugurkn

    ugurkn Member

    I was reading now at TAZ that xenforo is affected by the new rule EU law should be able to resell digital products many times.
  4. Amaury

    Amaury Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure that's an entirely different thing from this.
  5. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    Do you have a link for that?
  6. ugurkn

    ugurkn Member

  7. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

  8. tyteen4a03

    tyteen4a03 Well-Known Member

    This? No, the ruling does not mean second resales must be permitted. Per paragraph 77:

    So no; the ruling only affects the very first transfer. Prohibiting second transfers is still legal.
  9. cellarius

    cellarius Active Member

    In fact, the text you quote says the exact opposite. No matter what is in license terms, the copyright holder can no longer oppose the resale. His distribution right is exhausted with the original ("first") sale. And I don't see why this should not apply to xF - pointing to the license agreement won't help if that is overridden by law (although admittedly I'm not a lawyer).
  10. tyteen4a03

    tyteen4a03 Well-Known Member

    Right, I though right holder meant the owner of the license.
  11. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    It does, but the word notwithstanding means basically that it doesn't matter about any such clause, the law overrides whatever the contract says.
  12. rainmotorsports

    rainmotorsports Well-Known Member

    Part of the reason I think that Adobe finally pushed for Creative Cloud. Renting software is a future I was warned about as a child. But in light of this sort of law it basically bypasses the need for sales.

    However the scope you are looking for here is software. Does the law treat Xenforo as computer software as it is worded?
    That part doesn't clarify it for me. Maybe I am missing something but I would think a law would clarify the meaning even if it wasn't "all inclusive". I wouldn't even make an interpreted scripts versus compiled argument. Its just the law seemed to place more importance on the fact that this covered downloaded "computer programs" than what defines a program.

    Xenforo is Software, no argument there. My concern is that this goes a level deeper as well. Addon's, small scripts, etc.
  13. Xon

    Xon Well-Known Member


    Companies have realised that if you say "buy" and then give customers a copy of the software, this results in customers and courts* expecting that they have bought the software and have all the rights and privileges that implies.

    Customers can't duplicate software outside of a set of conditions due to copyright. But that isn't the same as saying they have licenced it and not bought it.

    The only way to change that is to remove the "buy this item" button entirely and move to a subscription model where you are explicitly buying access and never actually letting go of the the software itself.

    XF and its licence really come down to access to updates, addons and support.

    If XenForo doesn't want to be covered by laws governing buying software, they really need to rename the "Buy" button to "Licence" and not hand out copies. But that is a radically different business model.

    *EU at least, which is where XF operates in.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
  14. Slavik

    Slavik XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    We have been aware and looked into this issue a long time ago.

    However unless there has been some update to the laws, nothing has changed and XenForo licenses may only be transferred once.
  15. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Well-Known Member

    I think that's the point that they are making. Apparently the laws have changed recently for the EU to make it so that you cannot restrict the number of resales of a software package.
    Don't know as I do't live across the pond so I don't keep up with the nightmare of taxes over there. The US's are bad enough.
  16. Slavik

    Slavik XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    That particular law isn't "new".
  17. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Well-Known Member

    That's the thing I have been wondering about. I hear about it at several places, but the only new thing that I had remembered being really discussed was the VAT nightmare that is being enacted.
    I don't think anybody has posted a link to a new law or a new decision that stated that. Those that are blowing that horn I don't think have posted the relevant links to support their claim. Not to mention that the person that the poster linked to - I seriously doubt has a deep understanding of the EU tax law.
  18. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    The new VAT rules have nothing whatsoever to do with this, which is more about consumer rights, or looked at another way, the original copyright holders lack of rights (to stop transfers) on the occasion of the first sale.

    Perhaps we will have to wait for a test case and appeal.
  19. Biker

    Biker Well-Known Member

    This all goes back to a case in 2012 where the EU courts ruled against Oracle. The thought then, as it is now, was it wouldn't have much of an impact on anything, including existing license agreements.
  20. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Well-Known Member

    That's what I'm thinking.. GTB is probably looking at that 2012 case - and from what I understand that was already vetted by XF's powers that be and it was determined that it would not effect it.
    The rest is just wishful thinking on the part of folks.

    Please, link for the relevant recent law changes that perform this.. and I'm not talking about the 2012 case.
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