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How many times is the license transferable

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#1
Hello,
As EU has new rules for digital products it's possible to sell as unlimited times for these.Now my question is how many times can be the license transferred before this kind of rule it was 1 time has this now been affected by the change.

Regards
 

tyteen4a03

Well-known member
#8
This? No, the ruling does not mean second resales must be permitted. Per paragraph 77:

It must be recalled, next, that the copyright holder’s distribution right is exhausted, in accordance with Article 4(2) of Directive 2009/24, on the occasion of the first sale in the European Union by that rightholder, or with his consent, of any copy, tangible or intangible, of his computer program. It follows that, by virtue of that provision and notwithstanding the existence of contractual terms prohibiting a further transfer, the rightholder in question can no longer oppose the resale of that copy.
So no; the ruling only affects the very first transfer. Prohibiting second transfers is still legal.
 

cellarius

Active member
#9
So no; the ruling only affects the very first transfer. Prohibiting second transfers is still legal.
In fact, the text you quote says the exact opposite. No matter what is in license terms, the copyright holder can no longer oppose the resale. His distribution right is exhausted with the original ("first") sale. And I don't see why this should not apply to xF - pointing to the license agreement won't help if that is overridden by law (although admittedly I'm not a lawyer).
 

tyteen4a03

Well-known member
#10
In fact, the text you quote says the exact opposite. No matter what is in license terms, the copyright holder can no longer oppose the resale. His distribution right is exhausted with the original ("first") sale. And I don't see why this should not apply to xF - pointing to the license agreement won't help if that is overridden by law (although admittedly I'm not a lawyer).
Right, I though right holder meant the owner of the license.
 

rainmotorsports

Well-known member
#12
Part of the reason I think that Adobe finally pushed for Creative Cloud. Renting software is a future I was warned about as a child. But in light of this sort of law it basically bypasses the need for sales.

However the scope you are looking for here is software. Does the law treat Xenforo as computer software as it is worded?
Article 4 of the Copyright Treaty, ‘Computer programs’, reads as follows:

‘Computer programs are protected as literary works within the meaning of Article 2 of the Berne Convention. Such protection applies to computer programs, whatever may be the mode or form of their expression.’
That part doesn't clarify it for me. Maybe I am missing something but I would think a law would clarify the meaning even if it wasn't "all inclusive". I wouldn't even make an interpreted scripts versus compiled argument. Its just the law seemed to place more importance on the fact that this covered downloaded "computer programs" than what defines a program.

Xenforo is Software, no argument there. My concern is that this goes a level deeper as well. Addon's, small scripts, etc.
 

Xon

Well-known member
#13
Part of the reason I think that Adobe finally pushed for Creative Cloud. Renting software is a future I was warned about as a child. But in light of this sort of law it basically bypasses the need for sales.
Yup.

Companies have realised that if you say "buy" and then give customers a copy of the software, this results in customers and courts* expecting that they have bought the software and have all the rights and privileges that implies.

Customers can't duplicate software outside of a set of conditions due to copyright. But that isn't the same as saying they have licenced it and not bought it.

The only way to change that is to remove the "buy this item" button entirely and move to a subscription model where you are explicitly buying access and never actually letting go of the the software itself.

XF and its licence really come down to access to updates, addons and support.

Xenforo is Software, no argument there. My concern is that this goes a level deeper as well. Addon's, small scripts, etc.
If XenForo doesn't want to be covered by laws governing buying software, they really need to rename the "Buy" button to "Licence" and not hand out copies. But that is a radically different business model.

*EU at least, which is where XF operates in.
 
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Slavik

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#14
We have been aware and looked into this issue a long time ago.

However unless there has been some update to the laws, nothing has changed and XenForo licenses may only be transferred once.
 

Tracy Perry

Well-known member
#15
However unless there has been some update to the laws, nothing has changed and XenForo licenses may only be transferred once.
I think that's the point that they are making. Apparently the laws have changed recently for the EU to make it so that you cannot restrict the number of resales of a software package.
Don't know as I do't live across the pond so I don't keep up with the nightmare of taxes over there. The US's are bad enough.
 

Slavik

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#16
I think that's the point that they are making. Apparently the laws have changed recently for the EU to make it so that you cannot restrict the number of resales of a software package.
Don't know as I do't live across the pond so I don't keep up with the nightmare of taxes over there. The US's are bad enough.
That particular law isn't "new".
 

Tracy Perry

Well-known member
#17
That particular law isn't "new".
That's the thing I have been wondering about. I hear about it at several places, but the only new thing that I had remembered being really discussed was the VAT nightmare that is being enacted.
I don't think anybody has posted a link to a new law or a new decision that stated that. Those that are blowing that horn I don't think have posted the relevant links to support their claim. Not to mention that the person that the poster linked to - I seriously doubt has a deep understanding of the EU tax law.
 

Mr Lucky

Well-known member
#18
The new VAT rules have nothing whatsoever to do with this, which is more about consumer rights, or looked at another way, the original copyright holders lack of rights (to stop transfers) on the occasion of the first sale.

Perhaps we will have to wait for a test case and appeal.
 

Biker

Well-known member
#19
This all goes back to a case in 2012 where the EU courts ruled against Oracle. The thought then, as it is now, was it wouldn't have much of an impact on anything, including existing license agreements.
 

Tracy Perry

Well-known member
#20
That's what I'm thinking.. GTB is probably looking at that 2012 case - and from what I understand that was already vetted by XF's powers that be and it was determined that it would not effect it.
The rest is just wishful thinking on the part of folks.

The new VAT rules have nothing whatsoever to do with this, which is more about consumer rights, or looked at another way, the original copyright holders lack of rights (to stop transfers) on the occasion of the first sale.
Please, link for the relevant recent law changes that perform this.. and I'm not talking about the 2012 case.
 
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