Has anyone noticed a decline in forums?

[bottiger]

You seem to keep getting hung up on trivial points. While what you've spent might seem like a lot to you, it's still not enough to put you in the same arena with the big players you keep referencing, like Reddit.

It should though. 10k forum owners paying for a XF yearly renewal is enough to pay for several senior dev salaries.

When I look at reddit, I don't see any innovation besides threaded discussions. I believe it is fully within Kier and his team to do what reddit does or even excel.

If I knew that my xf forum would be obliterated by reddit, I could have tried making my own bespoke forum in the past 10 years.

This user is king idea I don't completely agree with and is a grey area, depending on circumstance. Creators certainly can and do dictate to users, all the time.

This is only true if you are Steve Jobs and you have the numbers to prove everyone wrong.

If you are not Steve Jobs and you forum is being decimated by Facebook/Reddit, then your opinion is worth nothing.

 

[FTL]

It should though. 10k forum owners paying for a XF yearly renewal is enough to pay for several senior dev salaries.

When I look at reddit, I don't see any innovation besides threaded discussions. I believe it is fully within Kier and his team to do what reddit does or even excel.



This is only true if you are Steve Jobs and you have the numbers to prove everyone wrong.

If you are not Steve Jobs and you forum is being decimated by Facebook/Reddit, then your opinion is worth nothing.

My opinion is never worth nothing lol, even in the face of the big boys. It all depends on so many variables, especially with what one is trying to achieve, target market etc.

 

[Max Taxable]

It should though. 10k forum owners paying for a XF yearly renewal is enough to pay for several senior dev salaries

Moving the goalposts must be a fun exercise for you. The post you quoted was about YOU and other end users vs the big money players like reddit and fb, not anything about xf as a company or its revenue.

Are you unable to grok context or are you intentionally obtuse?

 

[bottiger]

Moving the goalposts must be a fun exercise for you. The post you quoted was about YOU and other end users vs the big money players like reddit and fb, not anything about xf as a company or its revenue.

Are you unable to grok context or are you intentionally obtuse?

I think you are the one that is unable to grok context. Do I really have to explain my posts in full detail for you to understand?

The reason why we are all here paying xenforo is because we outsource the development to them.

So it is all xenforo customers + xenforo vs reddit... not each individual xenforo owner vs reddit.

 

[Joe Blow]

I'm an end user and have had this view for years, so it's not related to that.

Your logic makes no sense. You are an end user and you think the status quo is OK, therefore there's no problem? OK.

I'd noticed how primitive the Facebook system is since I started using it over a decade ago and it hasn't improved since then, so my view hasn't changed. I have only very recently become a forum owner.

This user is king idea I don't completely agree with and is a grey area, depending on circumstance. Creators certainly can and do dictate to users, all the time.

I don't think anyone is suggesting Xenforo become Facebook. However, the old school 1990s forum look is very rapidly losing relevance amongst the younger demographic. So... it's probably time to do something about that or forums will continue to decline in use and relevance. Old folks aren't the future.

 

[Paul B]

When I look at reddit, I don't see any innovation besides threaded discussions.

The term thread comes from the threaded layout.

It's not a reddit innovation, its decades old.

 

[Forsaken]

I think you are the one that is unable to grok context. Do I really have to explain my posts in full detail for you to understand?

The reason why we are all here paying xenforo is because we outsource the development to them.

So it is all xenforo customers + xenforo vs reddit... not each individual xenforo owner vs reddit.

Purchasing a product is not the same as outsourcing. You pay for the product, support and renew for updates; the software itself is provided as is and the development team has no requirements to implement everything you wish. If you want something like that, pay a developer to work for you .

Also why are you speaking for all XenForo customers? You are not a spokesperson for XenForo, the XenForo customers, or anyone but yourself.

 

[FTL]

Your logic makes no sense. You are an end user and you think the status quo is OK, therefore there's no problem? OK.



I don't think anyone is suggesting Xenforo become Facebook. However, the old school 1990s forum look is very rapidly losing relevance amongst the younger demographic. So... it's probably time to do something about that or forums will continue to decline in use and relevance. Old folks aren't the future.

I don't think you've understood what I've said, but that's ok, I don't really care.

 

[Kirby]

I would definitely agree that an app is something crucial here. And might change the turn.

my forum has over 120 addons

The two are mutually exclusive.

Custom addons wont work with the app.

That does not necessarily have to be the case. If implemented as an hybrid App, Add-ons could still work just fine while it would be possible to use (almost all) features that currently would only be available to native Apps.
Performance would be worse than a pure native app though, but I think this should't be a showstopper, especially if future XenForo versions could make more use of Service-Workers et al.
A showstopper would most likely be that Apple does not seem to be too willing to accept hybrid apps into the iTunes store

 

[Faust]

That does not necessarily have to be the case. If implemented as an hybrid App, Add-ons could still work just fine while it would be possible to use (almost all) features that currently would only be available to native Apps.
Performance would be worse than a pure native app though, but I think this should't be a showstopper, especially if future XenForo versions could make more use of Service-Workers et al.
A showstopper would most likely be that Apple does not seem to be too willing to accept hybrid apps into the iTunes store

An hybrid app available to be downloaded from store?

 

[Wesker]

Such as?

Lots of questions to ask before I can fully answer this.

1. Depends how big your budget is here to innovate.

2. What are XF2 sales numbers compared to XF1? I know you can't answer this but if you're growing then that's an important factor if you truly need to completely innovate.

I could suggest many things here. If you truly want to think big here it comes down to 2 factors:

1. How can you innovate xenforo so it allows for mass audiences to come to your users forums?
2. How can you innovate xenforo so it allows businesses to want to work with xenforo?

 

[Wesker]

Facebook Groups > Xenforo Forums

Groups rarely have good ranking in search engines so why are they superior? Reason is simple, general facebook traffic. If it wasn't for that Facebook traffic and peoples need to have a Facebook Account, they'd be dead because they are overall pretty poorly built and are as generic as Reddit subreddits.

 

[bottiger]

The term thread comes from the threaded layout.

It's not a reddit innovation, its decades old.

I would like some evidence to prove that the term thread came from threaded layout. I'm quite certain that flat threads were referred to as threads long before threaded layouts appeared on the internet. But I am not a forum historian. And I am quite aware that threaded layout is very old. I was on Slashdot when it was the top forum of it's age.

Anyway, this is irrelevant to whether or not xenforo is innovating or not. When I look at reddit they are copying more forum features while old style forums like xf are not copying reddit features.

Purchasing a product is not the same as outsourcing. You pay for the product, support and renew for updates; the software itself is provided as is and the development team has no requirements to implement everything you wish. If you want something like that, pay a developer to work for you .

It is not exactly the same, but it is similar. We are collectively paying xenforo to make a product that took more than $200 to create.

If you paid a programmer $200, they are not going to make a xenforo for you. To suggest that xenforo is only worth $200 so you should have 1/100th the expectation is just wrong all around. Xenforo is the culmination of millions paid to Kier and his team over several years.

I've also never claimed xenforo should make anything I want. But it is clear to anyone paying attention that xenforo-style forums are not doing well overall save for a handful that are succeeding despite whatever forum they use. And it is probably not good for xenforo the company to only have customers that feed off the leftovers reddit/fb doesn't want.

 

[zappaDPJ]

Forums just haven't evolved enough, or their evolution is reddit and companies selling forum software haven't adapted fast enough.

There seems to be a general perception that forums need to adapt to cater for users of other forms of social media. Personally I think forums need to capitalize on their advantages and adapt to better suit their user base.

A decent forum, not unlike a library, will have a wealth of information based on a particular niche which has been collected over many years. That content is of great value and should be easily accessible rather than hidden away on the next page. It is the main advantage a forum has to offer over any other kind of social media and yet it is sadly neglected.

We need better tools to expose that content and any forum owner that chastises a member for 'necroposting' should suffer the following fate...

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[Grant]

I would like some evidence to prove that the term thread came from threaded layout. I'm quite certain that flat threads were referred to as threads long before threaded layouts appeared on the internet

I’m pretty sure that the term threads was in use on usenet pre-dating all layouts of forums

A decent forum, not unlike a library, will have a wealth of information based on a particular niche which has been collected over many years. That content is of great value and should be easily accessible rather than hidden away on the next page. It is the main advantage a forum has to offer over any other kind of social media and yet it is sadly neglected.

THIS is the great USP that forums have over FB groups, Discourse, and even Reddit to a certain extent.

My main forum has been online 21 years and is themed on perfumes. There have been many perfumes launches and since discontinued at that time, and it’s interesting for people to find out what member thought about these hard to obtain elusive fragrances when they first launched.

Discoverability of older Evergreen threads is the main improvement that forums could use to remain useful and relevant. This could be done with a combo of tags, or curation. I don’t know what improvements XF could make to facilitate this, but it’s probably better to improve the things that make forums different than social media, rather than aping it.

 

[MattForo]

The websites such as reddit and facebook offer convenience as you have all your hobbies and interests in one place.

The top rated Xenforo suggestion is SSO which if implemented could help combat this for certain niches, although I've not seen any evidence this is something xenforo devs are working on.

 

[Alan_SP]

Facebook Groups > Xenforo Forums

Groups rarely have good ranking in search engines so why are they superior? Reason is simple, general facebook traffic. If it wasn't for that Facebook traffic and peoples need to have a Facebook Account, they'd be dead because they are overall pretty poorly built and are as generic as Reddit subreddits.

Yes, there is some big truth behind all of this:

Most people just don't know what they are missing with FB and its poor UI. And, if someone of you asks how I know this, it's simple: Most people just can't get they are actually missing something.

Most people aren't that intelligent (please check what IQ is, how it is measured, and most importantly, what it really means). Most people just get basics, never advanced things and complex ideas (and yes, that's why we have such state in the world).

Next, most people never used computers. I mean, they used them for the most basic things (maybe write some letter, play solitaire). For example, my mother has problems to set alarm on her phone.

So, when they see FB (and they see it mostly because it is "all over place"), they think it is all there is and that there's no better things. And, also, for their thoughts, how they think, how they articulate them, FB is more than enough. Why want something more and better, when you don't need it?

I know that this seems pretty condescending and insulting, but this IS actual reality. I myself wish almost all the time it isn't so, but it is so.

So, we first need to realize situation, how it really is and not think that other people are just like we (i.e. forum admins and users) are. Sad but true.

So, we need to offer them simpler, more basic things, they would be able to understand and use. That's why FB never made it's interface more complex. They know this truth.

 

[Max Fridman]

Another thing to consider is Google. Why Google values more a WordPress blog opened in 2018 than a Forum opened 10 years ago with tons of topics?

The UGC (user generated content) is generally penalized from Google. I don't know what Xenforo can do to improve the "value" of content created on Xenforo.

 

[Digital Doctor]

That content is of great value and should be easily accessible rather than hidden away on the next page.

Love the idea.

But as my programmer friend says,

Ideas are cheap, implementation is everything.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Discoverability of older Evergreen threads is the main improvement that forums could use to remain useful and relevant.

The issue is forum threads get worse (information dispersed, low content density) over time.

Reddit threads get better.

I've thought about this topic since 2003.

I have solid ideas here.

i will say this: You can't have just posts that go in order over time as Xenforo does. I call these threads "chit chat" threads which aren't for content they are "social" in nature. And social chit chats are better on Facebook.

What we need is new content types.

Maybe xenforo can have a content type called threaded threads. And that content type can involve over time.