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Forum Needs Non-Public Customer Forum

Discussion in 'General XenForo Discussion and Feedback' started by Anthony Parsons, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Anthony Parsons

    Anthony Parsons Well-Known Member

    As the title says... I think its missing here... and would even assist with a lot of the issues suddenly being created with public posts being deleted... if its hidden from the public, then that content is considered private and shouldn't be as heavily moderated.

    All the customer forums now are product based... nothing for informal customer discussion that is hidden from the public, thus shouldn't be considered a hindrance to XF as a business... the same as other companies provide customers for the same reasons...
    Lost, doobbe, Miko and 2 others like this.
  2. Anthony Parsons

    Anthony Parsons Well-Known Member

    Added... I personally think XF will be doing a great injustice to customers during these difficult times of stress with a lawsuit occurring, and customers feeling dismissed, thus turning on the product / company / mods.

    I think an easy solution exists.... create a private customer forum for licensed members.

    This is what IB want IMO... and I think it can all be stopped easily by allowing private discussion or some type of known policy on moderating.

    Something needs to be public though, and not things just made up as they go along, thus pissing customers off so early in the piece. New product... new company... and IB's efforts are already beginning to be experienced here.
  3. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    Anthony what is important to remember is that even if we did have a hidden, customer-only forum, the lawsuit still would not be discussed there either.
    It simply is not going to be discussed on this company forum. And no announcements will be made until KAM feel that they are at liberty to do so.
    Anthony Parsons likes this.
  4. Grover

    Grover Well-Known Member

    I fully understand why some people feel insecure to go for XenForo right now (due to the ugly lawsuit) and that it would be good for potential customers in doubt if a formal statement of XenForo ltd. would be provided, but my reasoning to buy 2 licenses regardless was that XenForo ltd. would never have gone through with the beta 1 release to their paying customers if they would have any doubt in their mind that the future of XenForo would be insecure. Getting beta 1 out was enough of a strong statement for me. I foresee a very bright future for XenForo and I wish it will become the new marketleader. Well... not even that... I dearly wish it will become the best stand alone social platform solution out there in due time... you don't have to be or become a marketleader to be the best. The year 2009-2010 has proven this lately didn't it?

    Back on topic: not sure if we need a private customers forum really. For me, XenForo is as open as it can be. Occasionally I dare to look a few minutes at the vBulletin Licensed Customers forums, but the atmosphere is more or less still very negative there (which is perfectly understandable). I do however see your point, but as Peggy said... if certain discussions are (very understandably) not allowed, then a private forum will not really be beneficial.
    dutchbb, Jamie, pipedreams and 2 others like this.
  5. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    I could not have said it better Grover.
  6. Grover

    Grover Well-Known Member

    I know ;).
    Peggy likes this.
  7. mjp

    mjp Well-Known Member

    I don't understand this - is it a prediction? I don't see anyone turning on anyone. Who feels dismissed?

    Maybe there's a parallel forum universe I'm not privy to.
    Jamie and Andrew like this.
  8. Anthony Parsons

    Anthony Parsons Well-Known Member

    That was my reasoning as well Grover... well said.

    I get that Peggy about the lawsuit, and I actually concur and agree that it shouldn't be discussed here.

    But then there are other aspects that members do want to discuss, ie. their transition from VB, IPB, other platform to here... which whilst I agree often endup in a narky debate on some product, the fact is... is that members still want to discuss certain things. I agree narky and hateful comments should be removed about any competitor, as that is not in my eyes a quality discussion... but even those discussions do get closed off because there public.

    Something must give... ie. some public rules on what is and isn't acceptable to post here or a private forum for customer discussion.

    As stated elsewhere, we're all admins here, and what do all forums have? Rules that members read so they know their left and right of arcs in what they can and can't post, and when to expect something they do post to be removed or closed.

    Whilst I don't agree with some things some members have to say, I do believe the site needs something a bit more than just, "oh... where did my post go" and left in the dark as a posting customer as to why. Worse again... other customers then don't know why when a member does jump up and down... and then begin to form an opinion they are being censored or such. Yes... this is a business site, and its for the business of xenforo software... so... what can I and can't I officially post on these forums?
  9. Anthony Parsons

    Anthony Parsons Well-Known Member

    You may want to go do some reading on xenforo supporter sites... as I believe the majority of aspects got deleted from here.
  10. Grover

    Grover Well-Known Member

    Well... that is a remarkable description indeed. I guess you are subconsciously referring to this site: http://xenfans.com/threads/the-ridiculous-post-deleting-and-thread-closing-on-xenforo-continues.203/ :)

    Like I said I believe it's understandable that people who are in doubt need some kind of reassurance. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and behaviors, but I am not sure (well, I am) if sharing ones feelings/frustrations like this (when you are seen as the biggest XenForo promotion site out there) is such a wise thing to do (but I do understand the stress people are under). And I also said this before a couple of times (also in PC's with some people): releasing beta1 is the strongest statement XenForo ltd. could have made in my eyes. What more do we need? One can choose to get trapped in (sometimes their own) insecurities or one could trust in this clear signal (releasing beta1) that everything will work out fine. I truly believe in the fact that truth will prevail and that in the end the light will be on the sides that deserve it. So, no worries here!

    (Yes, I do realize that we are now talking about the lawsuit (first time for me actually), so by all means: please delete my posting (just want to contribute my positive energy towards XenForo ltd and it's community!) if this is seen as not appropriate in those times)
    Peggy likes this.
  11. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    We have always permitted discussion here about other forum platforms. I'm not sure why you would think we don't? The only time any such discussion is closed, or a single (or more) post removed, is when someone starts attacking the other software. We have stated many times over that discussion is permitted here about other software, but attacking the other software and/or it's leaders/owners is not permitted.

    Something must give... ie. some public rules on what is and isn't acceptable to post here or a private forum for customer discussion.

    Most admins should already know what will/won't be permitted. A good rule of thumb is this... would you permit this post/language/bashing/fun on your own forum? Yes or No?

    First, when a post is deleted, I (and the other mods, I assume) always try and PC the member to explain the deletion. Same thing when a post or thread is edited/moved/merged. An explanation is usually posted in the thread. We very rarely do any sort of moderating without an explanation. If some were missed, then I apologize.

    Officially what can and can't be posted? What I've mentioned above. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you.
    As on any site, most moderating is done on a case-by-case basis. There really isn't anything that's been set in stone, except what I've mentioned.
    Perhaps the rest of the staff will chime in here.
  12. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    Not that I'm aware of.?
  13. AnthonyCea

    AnthonyCea Well-Known Member

    One thing I have noticed here as far as moderation is concerned is a bit of over moderation, sort of like some mod's are "looking for something to do", when in fact no action is really needed at all.

    Unless it is a very serious matter and the community is going to disintegrate unless action is taken, mod's should allow a forum of forum administrators the freedom to post, without major interference, due to the fact that some actions here by mod's have killed threads off, especially when members and mod's are cheer leading each other on, seemingly to control what can be posted in a thread or steering the direction of a thread into a very narrow topic, dictating what can and can't be discussed.

    For a forum that consists of forum administrators who are all potential customers, I think we need to look at how this place is going to be run a bit closer.

    One would think that the mod's here would understand that forum administrators would know proper protocol and act accordingly, maybe the mod's need to start sending more PC's to the members if they have problems instead of acting it out within threads.

    These problems are common to all forums, not only this one, but forum professionals should know better in my opinion, I do believe all parties here are forum professionals who might need slight adjustments as we all do from time to time.
    Anthony Parsons likes this.
  14. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    This is really good, honest feedback. Keep it coming.
  15. Anthony Parsons

    Anthony Parsons Well-Known Member

    This is another aspect... where have XF staff gone? I don't mean mods... I mean actual staff?

    I understand staff can't say things about the lawsuit... but I follow staff and have seen extremely little interaction from them here of late.

    This is another issue. We all know the problems that have sent another brand into peril, which was lack of feedback and discussion from the devs and business people... mods aren't staff, aren't paid employee's, and aren't company representatives.

    I miss it already to be perfectly honest. I feel as though this lawsuit has driven them off the forum completely, and if that's the case, I left one issue for another. Maybe their taking some time off, which would be awesome... but already since this issue, its like input from XF has dried up completely. A simple notice that they are working heavy on something or taking some time off, as they absolutely deserve it... immediately calms customers. A lawsuit doesn't stop general feedback on bugs, feature recommendations, etc... and this was present initially, but now gone.

    Please don't get me wrong, I know Kier, Mike and Ashley are no doubt very busy, but I honestly feel their input has dried up on this forum since this notification, and I feel an injustice already as a customer to not be reading more from them in responses to submitted feature requests and such. Those forums used to get sorted, answered... now nothing, and they just continue to build-up.
  16. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Today is Kier's birthday. I think he's entitled to some time off now and again.

    Both Mike and Kier are also working to get Beta 3 out this week, which is why they haven't been around as much as they usually are.
  17. Lawrence

    Lawrence Well-Known Member

    I remove posts that I find are demeaning, belittling, or insulting to any one person or company. If that is over-moderation then I am guilty, and I will not change from that philosophy. If you feel you must make such posts, then do not be surprised when I remove them.
  18. Anthony Parsons

    Anthony Parsons Well-Known Member

    Nice... thanks for that Brogan, and very much appreciated. I didn't know Kiers birthday was today, as I seen that thread the other day.

    Please don't take it the wrong way either... as I'm really not meaning any injustice to the statements made... more questions and the way I feel from being here... a few weeks ago compared to now. Major shift in input and feedback from staff vs. mods.
  19. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    Seriously?? How much do you think they can do?

    #1) KAM have, in no way, shape, or form, disappeared. They are hard at work on XenForo, and I mean very hard at work.
    #2) On top of that, they are hard at work building a defense against a ludicrous lawsuit.
    #3) And on top of THAT, they have families, and a life outside of this business.
  20. Anthony Parsons

    Anthony Parsons Well-Known Member

    This is exactly an issue that I believe has relevance Lawrence... in that now one must identify and know what you feel is demeaning, belittling or insulting vs. what the actual respondant / person aimed towards feels.

    Then toss the other mods into that equation, and suddenly one finds it ok and another removes a post!

    Is customer satisfaction going to come out the other end with that sort of ambiguity?

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