Copyright Infringement Allegations Are Getting Out Of Hand

I can't say I disagree though... copyright infringement has to stop, otherwise there won't be movies and music made available to sell at the current level today. Artists won't stop creating... they'll just stop sharing and have regular day jobs as well. If the movie industry can't pay actors... then actors go find other careers, i.e. broadway and such, where you have to go see the show, you can't just download it.

I don't agree Anthony. The loss of sales through copyright infringement isn't going to cost the entertainment industry it's livelihood. They aren't going to go out of business because of it. Sure instead if something like a profit of 200 million worldwide, they will make about 160 million. (Just random numbers). Fighting copyright breakers by the entertainment industry isn't about survival it's about increasing margins.
 
I don't agree Anthony. The loss of sales through copyright infringement isn't going to cost the entertainment industry it's livelihood. They aren't going to go out of business because of it. Sure instead if something like a profit of 200 million worldwide, they will make about 160 million. (Just random numbers). Fighting copyright breakers by the entertainment industry isn't about survival it's about increasing margins.

You are not far off - check this out:
http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowan...pearance-in-mission-impossible-ghost-protocol

So a guy that does a couple of hours work gets paid 7.7m - that hardly feels fair on the people paying ticket prices or DVD sales - there should be a cap on these actors pay scales just like they are doing with bankers.
 
I don't agree Anthony. The loss of sales through copyright infringement isn't going to cost the entertainment industry it's livelihood.
You may want to do some research on that actually... as you will find it has cost a lot of jobs in the music sphere. Bands, singers are the front-end of the music industry. To create that saleable product it takes a team behind the scenes. Do some research, just using music only as the example here, and you will find that many music companies have down-sized significantly due to pirating, as they simply cannot pay people to put through more music, to look at upcoming artists, etc... due to downsizing of the companies already.

If you think the impact is only profits, you need to go speak to a lot of people who have been laid off in the music industry alone due to illegal music downloads due to peer to peer networks and softwares capable of freely converting video audio into a mp3 and such.

The same issues are absolutely prevalent in the movie industry as well. Less movies are being made. Do some research and you will see the statistics. There have been several major movie production companies gone belly up as a result, along with some of the biggest names in the business laying off... you guessed it, more employees because they're no longer bringing in the money to maintain employment ratios.

Piracy has an enormous economical impact right through industries and communities, not just in music and movies, but near any industry. Cheap knockoffs in handbags, shoes, clothing in general, as an example, are doing damage to original artists and manufacturing firms globally. They're cutting jobs due to copyright infringement within their respective niches.

The issue is far bigger than is purported here, and it isn't media reporting it... the statistics and economical data says a lot when you begin researching companies and reviewing their releases about issues and solving those issues.
 
Good old Holland, where every blank CD you buy is copyright-taxed, because even if you will just be using it for personal storage of your data or your own images, they might as well take your money, just in case, because they know, deep down, that you really are just going to break the law.

Same thing in Italy... but not only limited to CD and DVD, it includes hard drives and USB drive too.
 
RIAA isn't what I would call a reliable source. They are notorious lobbyists, and will tweak the numbers to their advantage. If you take a look at the average consumers total media budget, you will see that the spending might have gone up, but the way it is spent is different. The record industry have been hit with a major modernization the last few decades, of course jobs are going to get lost. The music industry have been an old man club for many years, they have kept high prices, there have only been a few major players. Now you see more record labels, more musicians, more concerts, more competition.

Also the digitization of the content means allot of jobs will be left unneeded. Why would you need a big production and distribution network when you just have to upload it once? Just look at the lawsuits the record industry are doing and what they claim as lost income for a few songs downloads, you know something is inflated if that is actual lost revenue. What we see from the content industry is a constant reluctance to adapt to the market, but rather keep old their old model where revenue where insane.

Also, what some people are forgetting is that games are also becoming a budget post in most households, and this will directly impact the cultural spending. Many gaming companies have embraced the digital era, and are growing, and getting more and more profit. Look at Steam, they are making a profit in Russia, where most others aren't even trying to establish them self because of piracy.

I have no sympathy with Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga or who ever, that instead of making 300 millions for one hit song, they are making 60 millions, and keep feeding the public the line about how hard it is to make money....
 
Good old Holland, where every blank CD you buy is copyright-taxed, because even if you will just be using it for personal storage of your data or your own images, they might as well take your money, just in case, because they know, deep down, that you really are just going to break the law.

At the same time, the monies they collect get gobbled up by organizations that refuse to hand over the money to the actual copyright-holders.

I am so glad I moved from there. It's time to pull them fingers from the dikes...
It also intruiges me that éveryone seems to forget that many, many people are paying for high speed internet as well. If no one would actually download anymore, will anyone still be interested in high speed internet? The majority will not, I'm guessing.
 
I think it is ignorance to make excuses... this thread has outlined that people who weren't going to buy the product download a pirate version to now if pirated content didn't exist we basically wouldn't worry about high speed Internet. Do people actually believe this nonsense as self justification?

Do industries inflate figures? I have no doubt about it. Do people use stupid excuses to justify breaking the law? Yes they do it seems.

Piracy is illegal. Distributing pirated content is illegal. Downloading pirated content is illegal. If you get caught doing any of it, then quite honestly you deserve to be fined, infringed or given a sentence. Justification of the act puts you fairly and squarely in the box of denial.

Put yourself in the same position and take stock. If you put your heart and soul into a project and created something that was valuable (various terms define value), then would you be ok with anyone just copying it and disregarding your terms? This is different than willingly freely distributing something to begin with.

If the answer is Yes... then you really are in denial and should seek psychological help, because you're lying to yourself on an epic scale.
 
I think it is ignorance to make excuses... this thread has outlined that people who weren't going to buy the product download a pirate version to now if pirated content didn't exist we basically wouldn't worry about high speed Internet. Do people actually believe this nonsense as self justification?

Do industries inflate figures? I have no doubt about it. Do people use stupid excuses to justify breaking the law? Yes they do it seems.

Piracy is illegal. Distributing pirated content is illegal. Downloading pirated content is illegal. If you get caught doing any of it, then quite honestly you deserve to be fined, infringed or given a sentence. Justification of the act puts you fairly and squarely in the box of denial.

Put yourself in the same position and take stock. If you put your heart and soul into a project and created something that was valuable (various terms define value), then would you be ok with anyone just copying it and disregarding your terms? This is different than willingly freely distributing something to begin with.

If the answer is Yes... then you really are in denial and should seek psychological help, because you're lying to yourself on an epic scale.
It's not quite that easy. For example, downloading in my country isn't illegal. Uploading is. Yes, that's weird in many ways, but it's still true.

Secondly, many series from America, get released on television here about a year (or longer, if at all) after they were released in America. DVD versions even longer. This means that if we want to follow these shows, we're forced to wait over a year for them, hope they'll actually be released here, that it will remain on television and at a reasonable time, to follow it. None of these are guaranteed. However, it is always available to download, and again, that is legal. So it's the perfect way to make it work, because even if we wanted to watch it in another way, we couldn't, until much later.

Thirdly, ever noticed how most things you can buy, have quality assurance, you can test them, and if it's not working properly, you return it? Well, with movies, games and to a lesser degree music and programs don't have that luxury. You can't really test a movie to see if you like it, and you don't often find out a game is total crap until you've bought it. A lot of companies release stuff just to quickly get some money, without actually trying to make a good game / movie / CD / whatever. In a normal market, for example if you bought a car, you'd test the product first, then decide to buy it, and if you find out half way that the makers didn't put any chairs in it, you go back to the shop to get it fixed. In a normal market, if the car was of a bad design, and missing key things like chairs and they wouldn't get fixed, the price would either drop like crazy, or it wouldn't be sold anymore. Ever noticed how none of this applies to any of the downloadable things? The price almost always stays high, and if you're not happy with it, too bad. There's often no or a very small return policy on these items, and often only for one day, or for a short while as long as you haven't actually opened the product.

If companies release good products, against acceptable prices, people will almost always buy it. As long as stuff like World of Warcraft and Diablo 3 sell millions of copies (and neither are even that good) you can't really argue that people are willing to spend money on it. If companies release crap products that are unfinished, against high prices, with loads of "anti piracy features" that only harass legal buyers and not the actual pirates, people will keep downloading stuff. And that may be illegal, but it's also the way people balance it out as the normal market system doesn't apply.

On a related note, ever noticed how legally bought movies always have at least 5 minutes worth of anti piracy warnings and advertisements, and games generally have some kind of anti piracy feature like always having to be online, having to keep putting the disk in, or even more annoying ones that actually cause problems playing it? Ever noticed how pirated copies of either don't have anything like that? Speaking of punishing the legal buyers... It happened in several games that legal buyers couldn't play the game (because of security, servers offline, other issues) while people that downloaded it could play it all they like without issues. Typical, isn't it?
 
The general public does not pirate. There is only a very small number who actually violate the law. They are the ones with the skewed moral compass and the real source of the problem.
That is beyond naive, everyone and their grand mother pirates, either knowingly or unknowingly.

Put yourself in the same position and take stock. If you put your heart and soul into a project and created something that was valuable (various terms define value), then would you be ok with anyone just copying it and disregarding your terms? This is different than willingly freely distributing something to begin with.

If the answer is Yes... then you really are in denial and should seek psychological help, because you're lying to yourself on an epic scale.
You are putting this in black and white. Think about availability. For example, your favorite TV show is an American production, but it is not licensed to any stations in your country. You then try to get the DVD, but it isn't out, and you can't find any release plans. You then try some online services, but the ones that actually have the content you are looking for does not offer this service in your country, and besides, reading a few reviews of the service, you see that it doesn't work on your system, cause it requires some proprietary DRM solution that has limited support. The Oatmeal Comic that went pretty viral also exemplifies this very well. Try doing this with a physical product, release it, make people excited about it, and you only make it available for sale in a few countries, or even just in a few towns. Would you be able to sell your product then? Also the fact that they are treating paying customers as criminals does not help the matter.

I know of many people using pirate services who had said that the only way the service could be better were if it were paid and legal. It is not about not wanting to pay, it is about being unable to buy the service you are looking for. Until the content industry actually manages to compete with the quality of service of pirating and availability, piracy will be a problem.

Thirdly, ever noticed how most things you can buy, have quality assurance, you can test them, and if it's not working properly, you return it? Well, with movies, games and to a lesser degree music and programs don't have that luxury. You can't really test a movie to see if you like it, and you don't often find out a game is total crap until you've bought it. A lot of companies release stuff just to quickly get some money, without actually trying to make a good game / movie / CD / whatever. In a normal market, for example if you bought a car, you'd test the product first, then decide to buy it, and if you find out half way that the makers didn't put any chairs in it, you go back to the shop to get it fixed. In a normal market, if the car was of a bad design, and missing key things like chairs and they wouldn't get fixed, the price would either drop like crazy, or it wouldn't be sold anymore. Ever noticed how none of this applies to any of the downloadable things? The price almost always stays high, and if you're not happy with it, too bad. There's often no or a very small return policy on these items, and often only for one day, or for a short while as long as you haven't actually opened the product.
For movies there are trailers, for music there is radio and for games there are demo's and trailers, software offers trials and demos, and for most there are reviews available. Except for music, giving the customer the opportunity to try before you buy, it will most likely ruin the product and kill your sales.
 
Trailers are advertisement, demo's aren't available for all games (I'd even go as far as not available for most games, it's really more of an exception), and reviews are subjective - and third party. I'm not saying it isn't logical that it isn't available before buying it, but it's a serious flaw in the concept.
 
Interesting points Magnus...

Sador... you are still making excuses IMHO to justify in your own mind acceptability from the sounds of it.

A movie distributed in a country with no such copyright laws is different to that movie being copied and distributed outside of said country. It is also not legal in such country if the movie is not for sale in that country to begin with, and a person has grabbed it across borders via the www, copied it, then distributed it.

This is how people start whinging and whining when say... the US grabs your arse and drags it across borders to be charged in the US, as an example, due to copyright infringement.

I think Floris raised this point about the Netherlands. It is legal to copy the movie and even distribute it to others... however; that distribution ends at that countries borders. Once you distribute it to a person outside that border, ie. you make it available on the www without blocking every country except the Netherlands IP's, you are then open to being dragged across borders for copyright infringement.
 
It is not really a flaw in concept, it is just they way it is. If you look at a trailer, you will be able to make a top level evaluation of the movie or game, if it is something is interesting. If you then read a review, actually read it and see what the reviewer puts as negatives and positives, you can see if you are likely to like it or not. You can make an informed decision, but there are no guarantees in life, same as trying a car before you buy it doesn't mean you get a full overview of the product. For example, the spark plugs might need replacing every 3rd time you start the engine, you will never know about this before you have started the car 3 times, or read about it elsewhere.

Not being able to make an informed decision is not a common reasoning behind piracy. However, as piracy is so available, you are more likely to get the product without making an informed decision. I would think allot of piracy is for products you otherwise would not have bought, but you pirate it because you can and you think there is a smidgen of hope that you might enjoy some part of it.
 
Interesting points Magnus...

Sador... you are still making excuses IMHO to justify in your own mind acceptability from the sounds of it.

A movie distributed in a country with no such copyright laws is different to that movie being copied and distributed outside of said country. It is also not legal in such country if the movie is not for sale in that country to begin with, and a person has grabbed it across borders via the www, copied it, then distributed it.

This is how people start whinging and whining when say... the US grabs your arse and drags it across borders to be charged in the US, as an example, due to copyright infringement.

I think Floris raised this point about the Netherlands. It is legal to copy the movie and even distribute it to others... however; that distribution ends at that countries borders. Once you distribute it to a person outside that border, ie. you make it available on the www without blocking every country except the Netherlands IP's, you are then open to being dragged across borders for copyright infringement.
Nope, you are free to download any movies or music whatsoever, just not share / upload it. As long as it has been shared, for example by newsgroups, it's not illegal for me to download it. Because of this, I also don't need to make any excuses, even if I were downloading, I wouldn't be doing anything illegal. ;)
 
That is beyond naive, everyone and their grand mother pirates, either knowingly or unknowingly.

You are putting this in black and white. Think about availability. For example, your favorite TV show is an American production, but it is not licensed to any stations in your country. You then try to get the DVD, but it isn't out, and you can't find any release plans.

You then try some online services, but the ones that actually have the content you are looking for does not offer this service in your country, and besides, reading a few reviews of the service, you see that it doesn't work on your system, cause it requires some proprietary DRM solution that has limited

Exactly the point. Happened to me recently.. I really *wanted* to pay for something - but these idiots didn't let me. Well, not my fault, there *are* alternative way of getting this stuff and in such a case, I really don't care the tiniest bit. If they don't want to learn and forget the old, archaic ways of distributing and marketing entertainment material, then it's not my fault. The entertainment industry is constantly whining and crying about the evil pirates, instead they should look at themselves and cry about how much money they miss by sticking to distribution methods which are simply no longer viable in the age of global networking.

There is a reason, why iTunes is such a big success. It's because it works fast and easy, still iTunes could probably sell twice as much stuff, if the big entertainment mobs would finally get off their lazy backsides and allow for fast and global distribution. Sooner or later they will learn it though - they have no other choice.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones << this really hits the nail on the head.

BTW: ACTA is finally dead, the EU parliament just trashed it. Makes me hope there is a some common sense left, even in the minds of politicians.
 
It also intruiges me that éveryone seems to forget that many, many people are paying for high speed internet as well. If no one would actually download anymore, will anyone still be interested in high speed internet? The majority will not, I'm guessing.

I would be, for gaming, and my business. I ceased downloading ages ago. I will absolutely admit that I downloaded in the past, mostly music. I used to DJ, and prior to Napster, I had very few ways to actually get the songs I wanted, other than buying the whole CD they happened to be on (An example would be Lenny Kravtiz' "Are you gonna go my way". I only wanted that song, and had to fork over several hours worth of work for the whole CD, the rest of which sucked ass. When my CD got stolen during a gig, I couldn't be arsed to buy it again for just a single song).

I now have alternatives to legally obtain music, and can "preview" them on YouTube. YouTube probably made me buy more music than I had bought in the last few years before it, as I now really can figure out whether I think a particular artist or song is worth the effort and money :)

I think the last time I actually sawe a pirated movie was Godzilla or the first edition of Star Wars, both of which were a prime reason for me to start buying DVDs through Amazon if I wanted to see something. I bought 24 when it just came out and wasn't even released yet in Holland.


With all that said, the music industry mostly caused its own damage. By overpricing CDs, and stacking them with filler music, as well as refusing to look into revamping their product to meet changed demands, while agressively trying to prevent people to create a legit backup of their legally bought CDs, they basically drove people into the illegal sector.

I do believe that is why iTunes is as succesful as it is. 99 cents for a song is a very reasonable price, you have the ability to get and make more than one copy in case of the original getting damaged, and it is an easy way for instant delivery of music. Apple basically stole the sunshine of the music industry by getting it right, and they are doing very well because of it :)



On a related note, ever noticed how legally bought movies always have at least 5 minutes worth of anti piracy warnings and advertisements, and games generally have some kind of anti piracy feature like always having to be online, having to keep putting the disk in, or even more annoying ones that actually cause problems playing it? Ever noticed how pirated copies of either don't have anything like that? Speaking of punishing the legal buyers...

That ticks me off to no extent. We own hundreds of movies and DVDs, all legal, and yet, I am forced to see those things. Pirates don't grab it, and thus it totally defeats the purpose, other than annoying the heck out of law-abiding peeps.
 
If I ever want a piece of music, I don't buy it......................nor do I pirate/share it!

I just look at youtube for the official music track/video, then use downloadhelper to download the file and convert it to an mp3 file!

As far as I know, that's not breaking copyright or any laws...but then again, you only have to look at someone wrong these days, or "offend" someone and get in trouble. :P
 
If I ever want a piece of music, I don't buy it......................nor do I pirate/share it!

I just look at youtube for the official music track/video, then use downloadhelper to download the file and convert it to an mp3 file!

As far as I know, that's not breaking copyright or any laws...but then again, you only have to look at someone wrong these days, or "offend" someone and get in trouble. :p
Pretty much. Only a very small population of the world actually does the pirating but some of these dumb azz laws is making the majority suffer for it.
 
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