Continuation of the ADD discussion.

[Gill]

Interesting thread. I come from the position that I'm the headteacher of a school for children wih special needs in the UK and one of our specialisms over the years has been autism and of course we focus on ADHD and other complex needs. Obviously medication for many of the youngsters who are diagnosed with ADHD plays a part, but so does the education that enables them to learn skills that help them to manage situations. There's nothing more important that talking, listening and helping them to see what went wrong and why ... and then working through what they would do differently next time. With autism particularly, social stories play a huge part in our work as of course does preparation for events, predictability and an environment that supports the development of social skills and communication.

The diagnosis of autism, aspergers, ADHD etc really needs to happen as early as possible so that support can be in place. It forever alarms me that we still meet young people who are in the latter stages of their schooling before the help they require is available due to a late diagnosis.

The challenging behaviours associated with some of these conditions is difficult for schools to manage. However, manage they must and this is where support services should come in. I'm very alarmed by some of the things I've read in this thread ... usually I hear of exclusions which is unsatisfactory - but some of the things mentioned here? Yikes!!!

 

[Forsaken]

Interesting thread. I come from the position that I'm the headteacher of a school for children wih special needs in the UK and one of our specialisms over the years has been autism and of course we focus on ADHD and other complex needs. Obviously medication for many of the youngsters who are diagnosed with ADHD plays a part, but so does the education that enables them to learn skills that help them to manage situations. There's nothing more important that talking, listening and helping them to see what went wrong and why ... and then working through what they would do differently next time. With autism particularly, social stories play a huge part in our work as of course does preparation for events, predictability and an environment that supports the development of social skills and communication.
 
The diagnosis of autism, aspergers, ADHD etc really needs to happen as early as possible so that support can be in place. It forever alarms me that we still meet young people who are in the latter stages of their schooling before the help they require is available due to a late diagnosis.
 
The challenging behaviours associated with some of these conditions is difficult for schools to manage. However, manage they must and this is where support services should come in. I'm very alarmed by some of the things I've read in this thread ... usually I hear of exclusions which is unsatisfactory - but some of the things mentioned here? Yikes!!!

 
It can go the opposite way, and I see it happening more in the United States; a lot of schools will label children as ADD/ADHD/etc when they actually don't fit the symptoms. I really didn't get much help from my teachers until Middle School and High School, and only from a few at that.

 

[Gill]

Yes Forsaken, I can see that. Labels, labels, labels which then diminish the actual needs of a child who needs the support associated with ADD/ADHD. It's a minefield isn't it!

 

[Ben Davis]

Hey Gill,

It's nice to know that it's just not 'ADDers'/'Aspies'/etc and their parents that are interested in this thread.

I do wish that more school, and/or teachers, would actually put more effort into understanding these conditions and differences as it really is quite appalling the sort of treatment we get for something we was born with. I do believe in what Dragonfly had said in an earlier post, explaining about how people don't suffer from ADD but suffer from people whom have near or complete ignorance with disorders like AD(H)D/Aspergers/etc.

I had a lecturer when I did college who was amazing. She was studying AD(H)D for a case study in a course she was doing while lecturing. She understood that ADD affects everyone differently and instead of saying "This is how you will act to this", she asked me how I felt with regards to my ADD and learning and such which in turn helped a lot. For the course I did with her I passed with a Distinction, the highest grade possible. In all of the courses and schooling I've had I've never achieved such a remarkable result. This is just testament to how much good schooling can help someone who has ADD in a learning environment.

EDIT: It wasn't Forsaken that mentioned about how people with AD(H)D/Aspergers/etc. suffer from people that understand. It was actually Dragonfly. Sorry Dragonfly lol

 

[Forsaken]

Hey Gill,

It's nice to know that it's just not 'ADDers'/'Aspies'/etc and their parents that are interested in this thread.

I do wish that more school, and/or teachers, would actually put more effort into understanding these conditions and differences as it really is quite appalling the sort of treatment we get for something we was born with. I do believe in what Forsaken had said in an earlier post, explaining about how people don't suffer from ADD but suffer from people whom have near or complete ignorance with disorders like AD(H)D/Aspergers/etc.

I had a lecturer when I did college who was amazing. She was studying AD(H)D for a case study in a course she was doing while lecturing. She understood that ADD affects everyone differently and instead of saying "This is how you will act to this", she asked me how I felt with regards to my ADD and learning and such which in turn helped a lot. For the course I did with her I passed with a Distinction, the highest grade possible. In all of the courses and schooling I've had I've never achieved such a remarkable result. This is just testament to how much good schooling can help someone who has ADD in a learning environment.

Thats how a few of my teachers were (Especially my senior year English teacher), as well as my therapist.

Rather then -telling- me the common scenario, she went through and figured out how it affected me, and helped me deal with it on a personal level. Its also a lot of what I'm trying to get changed in the districts around where I live. 

 

[Gill]

Oh Ben ... your comments have just really hit me in the stomach! I love your post. Yes, if ADD is understood and the learning environment is right - why shouldn't there be excellent achievement? It breaks my heart when it all goes wrong and schools fail to meet the needs of those who most need support.

In my area we're lucky because there is so much training organised for schools particularly regards autism, but when it comes to ADD there are still weaknesses. The label is there, but the understanding associated with the label can be lacking. I can give an example where a young person we worked with was excluded from a local school ... they wanted us to take him, we accepted him but there was a week or two's gap. The school he was in wanted him out - he knew that - he responded and finally created an unsafe situation. When he arrived with us, there were many, many instances of unsafe behaviour, but with the right strategies he settled. He left school with good qualifications and is now in college and doing well. The learning environment is everything!

There's a long way to go before the understanding of conditions is put to practical purpose. The ignorance of disorders is unforgivable in an educational setting where information is available - getting the approaches wrong is something that can be righted if the will is there to do so. And that should be what all educators are aiming at. Why else do people go into education??

 

[Gill]

Thats how a few of my teachers were (Especially my senior year English teacher), as well as my therapist.

Rather then -telling- me the common scenario, she went through and figured out how it affected me, and helped me deal with it on a personal level. Its also a lot of what I'm trying to get changed in the districts around where I live.

And that should be the norm!!! I wonder how long it will take for all educators to handle conditions in this way?? Rhetorical question of course!!

 

[Ben Davis]

Rather then -telling- me the common scenario, she went through and figured out how it affected me, and helped me deal with it on a personal level. Its also a lot of what I'm trying to get changed in the districts around where I live.

I really do wish that there were more people that were willing to spend that little bit of extra time to get to understand a pupil instead of just assuming that everyone that has a condition will react in the same way to the same situations.
If I knew where to start I would do that same and help the children that suffer in schools because of the teachers', and other pupils', ignorance.

 

[Forsaken]

I really do wish that there were more people that were willing to spend that little bit of extra time to get to understand a pupil instead of just assuming that everyone that has a condition will react in the same way to the same situations.
If I knew where to start I would do that same and help the children that suffer in schools because of the teachers', and other pupils', ignorance.

You can probably help out by getting involved with your local school board and council (If you're in the US).

I actually started getting involved when I was still in high school, as I by the time I was a Junior, I had most of my credits, and was capable of taking mostly electives in or out of the school. I spent a lot of my time helping out in the special ed classes (I was removed from them my Freshmen or Sophomore year because the teacher realized I didn't belong there, and ended up in all AP classes after they tested me).  I thought about becoming a teacher for a while, but I really don't do well in those situations ;p.
 

And that should be the norm!!! I wonder how long it will take for all educators to handle conditions in this way?? Rhetorical question of course!!

A lot of what I dealt with was a lack of caring on the part of the teachers. Many of them were just not cut out to be educating others (I got in trouble a lot with lack of respect for some teachers, especially the ones teaching computer related courses, because they were teaching things that would -impede- proper learning), and often treated students as though they were nothing more then a chore.

My favorite teachers were the ones that actually went out of their way to give you a creative project, and make you think about something, therefore teaching the material in a way that would inspire you to do it, not just by assigning busy work (I never did that anyways, as soon as I moved to AP, I made a deal with my school to grade my only on tests and reports).

I know my old English teacher has actually taken it up with the University he graduated from to try to get the curriculum changed so that they'll include more psychology into the teaching of potential teachers. He's probably one of the few teachers I met who actually wanted to try to help all his students (And even students that weren't his own).

 

[Gill]

Guys, I want to thank you. I could sit here for hours trying to respond - I want to go away and think. I want to think about what more can we do wherever each of us are to make education more relevant. Your comments have really had an impact on me and I intend to learn from them. It's making me think about what further training needs to go into schools and how that should be delivered. Your experiences are too valuable to lose.

 

[Ben Davis]

Guys, I want to thank you. I could sit here for hours trying to respond - I want to go away and think. I want to think about what more can we do wherever each of us are to make education more relevant. Your comments have really had an impact on me and I intend to learn from them. It's making me think about what further training needs to go into schools and how that should be delivered. Your experiences are too valuable to lose.

Trust me, I've looked at a lot of these replies and wanted to respond to them but felt that it would do them an injustice. There is a lot we can learn from each other, about these disorders, if we're just willing to listen, and willing to do something about it. There needs to be more people that are willing to stand up for children and adults that have these disorders and help them get the understanding that they need.
You mentioned you was from the UK? I am also. Would it be too forward to ask roughly whereabouts you're based?

 

[Forsaken]

Guys, I want to thank you. I could sit here for hours trying to respond - I want to go away and think. I want to think about what more can we do wherever each of us are to make education more relevant. Your comments have really had an impact on me and I intend to learn from them. It's making me think about what further training needs to go into schools and how that should be delivered. Your experiences are too valuable to lose.

The best I would say is more training into psychology for teachers; while that won't cover most things, it'll at least help with dealing with many of the problems students deal with.

Also, qualified counselors were something none of my schools had (Except my elementary, and she was hired part time and didn't really work for the school) are a big benefit. Allowing students to talk to and share their problems with someone who is trained and qualified to help them with problems such as ADHD will always be better then talking to the counselors there for all the students (I had an issue with my high school counselor who didn't understand ADHD or any other problem similar to it).

Stricter curriculum where teachers had less options to give to the students in projects/assignments were also a problem for me. Having more creative control over what you can do, and how you can do it will keep someone with ADD/ADHD more focused on the project.

More creative projects, less desk work. I despise desk work/busy work, and would rather have failed then do it. Doing work sheets that you have already gone over does little to actually teach people, and really just made me feel that the teachers were unwilling to spend the time teaching. The teachers that actually taught me well were the ones that gave very few worksheets, and gave more projects in the class.

 

[Ben Davis]

More creative projects, less desk work. I despise desk work/busy work, and would rather have failed then do it. Doing work sheets that you have already gone over does little to actually teach people, and really just made me feel that the teachers were unwilling to spend the time teaching. The teachers that actually taught me well were the ones that gave very few worksheets, and gave more projects in the class.

I've always been into things that involve me creating things. That's one of the reasons for me liking coding and computers in general. I failed my GCSE English with a 'U', the lowest 'grade'* possible, due to me writing only three lines in the entire exam. As I hope you've gathered from my posts on this forum I'm quite clearly able to spell and use grammar properly but when it came to writing it down I completely failed because it was dull, boring and I wasn't able to concentrate on it.

*I say lowest grade but it isn't actually a grade...

 

[Gill]

Thank you both for your comments which I appreciate. I will be coming back to this and possibly will pm you regards potential training programmes I wish to devise. I won't put these publicly here but would welcome input to make a difference.

Ben, I will pm you my whereabouts.

 

[Forsaken]

I've always been into things that involve me creating things. That's one of the reasons for me liking coding and computers in general. I failed my GCSE English with a 'U', the lowest 'grade'* possible, due to me writing only three lines in the entire exam. As I hope you've gathered from my posts on this forum I'm quite clearly able to spell and use grammar properly but when it came to writing it down I completely failed because it was dull, boring and I wasn't able to concentrate on it.

*I say lowest grade but it isn't actually a grade...

I had no problems with exams or anything, mostly due to how fast I memorize things.

My short term memory is horrible (I can walk to the bathroom, be right outside the door, and forget what I was doing), but I remember anything I see or hear, so exams were mostly a breeze for me.

Only thing I had problems with was losing focus in math or chemistry, but I'm actually strong in both subjects, just get bored and lose focus due to the amount of time doing formulas.  

 

[Forsaken]

Thank you both for your comments which I appreciate. I will be coming back to this and possibly will pm you regards potential training programmes I wish to devise. I won't put these publicly here but would welcome input to make a difference.

Ben, I will pm you my whereabouts.

Just create a private conversation with whoever and I can supply what I think on it. I can only remark on the US system, as I didn't study in England for long.

 

[Ben Davis]

Thank you both for your comments which I appreciate. I will be coming back to this and possibly will pm you regards potential training programmes I wish to devise. I won't put these publicly here but would welcome input to make a difference.

Ben, I will pm you my whereabouts.

I look forward to hearing from you about the training programmes you wish to devise I'd be more than happy to give my input

 

[Gill]

I can't work out how to pm!!! Over to the other forum to ask!!!

 

[Forsaken]

I created the conversation, but I can't add Ben until he follows me; if anyone else wants to join let me know so you can be invited.

 

[Ben Davis]

I had no problems with exams or anything, mostly due to how fast I memorize things.

My short term memory is horrible (I can walk to the bathroom, be right outside the door, and forget what I was doing), but I remember anything I see or hear, so exams were mostly a breeze for me.

Only thing I had problems with was losing focus in math or chemistry, but I'm actually strong in both subjects, just get bored and lose focus due to the amount of time doing formulas.

Personally I find that I'm very similar to that, it was just that writing was always boring to me and I couldn't focus on it for very long. I struggled in pretty much all of my lessons because everyone was learning slower than I was so I got bored after the first 10 - 20 minutes of the teacher explaining a new formula, reaction, etc. because I had already memorized it and understood it whereas it would take the rest of the class two or three hour long lessons to get their heads round it. In fact on numerous occasions during senior school I would do the equations, in Maths, of the person next to me to pass the time.