XF 2.2 Cloud email bounces from Hotmail

MapleOne

Well-known member
Anyone else having issues on cloud with hotmail/live/outlook bouncing email notifications.

Checking my logs and the soft bounces seem to come from hotmail addresses.

Also a few members registering with hotmail addresses have contacted me about not getting registration verification emails.

I hate hotmail, they give me problems at work too, whenever someone does not get an email its always a bloody hotmail address.
 
Anyone else having issues on cloud with hotmail/live/outlook bouncing email notifications.
Chris made a lengthy post about this issue just prior to your post. If you are still having problems then they haven't rolled out the fix to the cloud sites yet. Give them a few days and then see if the issue continues and if so, submit a ticket. Microsoft has long been known to block email from MTA's that most other providers accept due to their strict blocking rules.
 
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I agree, MS are nonsense for repeatedly doing this.

People are of course free to keep using them, on the understanding that any site they use can be blacklisted by MS at any time, so they may not receive emails.

This article (from my favourite and quite reliable email provider) adds some more info to this story - it does look like a MS problem, and not much anyone can do about it:

Recipient @ Office365/Hotmail/Outlook not receiving my emails

Relja PigeonsOnly Novović
 
Just wanted to update you all on this issue, what we have done to mitigate it, and what we are doing in future to reduce the disruption.

A brief history...

As a brand new IP address and mail server, we did have a few teething problems not long after we launched XenForo Cloud. To potentially correct @Paul B, at least from my memory, I don't think we got blocked by Microsoft more than once or twice before. And for the most part, these were simply reputation things, because we were a new server, and it has been mostly working fine for a little while.

What I think has happened, because it affected the mail server we use here and the mail server we use for Cloud customers, is Linode, the hosting provider we use for those servers, may have had its entire AS ranges blocked.

We became aware of the XF.com issue just before Christmas. This was reported immediately, but Microsoft denied there was an issue. The email said we could reply to add further details, which I did. It wasn't until after Christmas that I became aware that the Cloud mail server was affected too. So I again replied to that previous email. Despite assurances in the email we received, these emails were seemingly ignored.

We submitted a fresh request and this was eventually actioned and resolved the issue for Cloud customers on January 8th. Annoyingly, Microsoft were still denying there was anything blocking XF.com emails, but this contradicts the exact bounce messages they were sending which explicitly states they are 🤷‍♂️

In terms of what we're doing to reduce disruption in the future:

1. We're building two new mail servers to replace the existing ones
2. Each of these servers are going to have multiple public facing IP addresses
3. The new server will send mail using any one of the IP addresses configured in our "pool"
4. The new software we have set up is significantly better in helping us surface errors that may be affecting deliverability

This has been rolled out to XF.com already which means we're now successfully delivering messages to most email providers, though we will be monitoring closely for any bounces that may indicate blocks we need to address. We now have a pool of multiple IP addresses and we can effectively remove IP addresses that might be blocked from that pool and either restore them once the block is resolved or replace them with new IP addresses entirely. This is now as simple as assigning a new IP address, configuring it in our IP pool and updating our SPF records. We can also assign a priority to each IP address so new IP addresses can be configured to be less likely to be used while they "warm up". The fact that we have multiple IPs also means any significant volume of email is now less "alarming".

If the next day or two goes well, we can roll these changes out to Cloud customers too. Something which should be mostly transparent without any significant disruption to existing sites.

In summary: For now, the issues should be resolved, and in future they should be less likely to be as disruptive.
As a further update, the new mail server project is now complete for both our sites here at xenforo.com and all Cloud sites.

There has been a limited amount of disruption but we now have additional tools available to us which allow us to monitor and mitigate issues more efficiently.

For example, in the last 24 hours we have seen emails to iCloud, Yahoo and AT&T being blocked, and were quickly able to get those issues resolved.

Cloud customers send around 3,000 emails an hour with a bounce rate of around 1% which is now predominantly due to expected conditions such as non-existent email addresses or full mailboxes.

We have had bounce processing disabled - something that we can now do centrally - for the last 24 hours while we waited for the blacklist issues to be resolved, but this will be reimplemented later today.

If you’re a cloud customer and you’re noticing any email related issues, please submit a ticket.
 
When I ran some dedicated servers for many years on cpanel and did all the mail handling through exam, the big ones - hotmail being the worst - blocked loads of emails - they never answered tickets and when I did get replies to the odd ticket they always denied it was their end - after many many attempts over a few years - in the end I gave up as it was waste of my time as 99.9% of the time nothing got done - that was pre 2020

Hotmail and Microsoft - one of the big ones - I try to never have anything whatsoever to do with them
 
I'm having problems with hotmail too.

The user registers, the email is sent without errors. There are no blocks. There are no error messages. In my hosting records, the emails were sent successfully.

But the emails don't arrive.

I tried to test using the contact Us option (so I can receive emails) and the messages do not arrive in my hotmal email. When I switched to Yahoo, it arrived.

I tried looking for a way to contact Microsoft, but I'm going around in circles and can't find any contact.
 
This thread specifically relates to our Cloud product.

You have a self hosted license so would need to check whether your server IP has been blacklisted by MS.

We've been dealing with Microsoft blocking every IP we assign to our domain for years now. It doesn't matter if it's XF Cloud or a self-hosted license, the problem is the same. Microsoft's filtering is a real pain.
 
We've been dealing with Microsoft blocking every IP we assign to our domain for years now. It doesn't matter if it's XF Cloud or a self-hosted license, the problem is the same. Microsoft's filtering is a real pain.
I get your point, but this thread was about a specific issue on XF Cloud so a general experience with Microsoft blocking IPs isn't relevant here. Our IPs are not blocked by Microsoft and the original issues have been resoled. So it does matter :)
 
I get your point, but this thread was about a specific issue on XF Cloud so a general experience with Microsoft blocking IPs isn't relevant here. Our IPs are not blocked by Microsoft and the original issues have been resoled. So it does matter :)
Fair enough. I just didn't think it was necessary to open up a new thread just to whine about MS filtering system that randomly shoots at everybody.
 
Fair enough. I just didn't think it was necessary to open up a new thread just to whine about MS filtering system that randomly shoots at everybody.
You know you don't have to use their email system if it is a pain in the bum for your users and yourself.
I'm not on the cloud but if i was i'd avoid MS the whole time as well just so that we wouldn't have issues every few months.
 
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