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Change "Follow message moderation rules" phrase

Discussion in 'XenForo Suggestions' started by Martok, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    I'd like to propose that it is permission phrase is changed to "Make posts without moderation".

    It seems that many who are new to Xenforo are confused by the current phrase and often think that setting "Follow message moderation rules" to Allow will mean a user or group will then have their posts moderated or that setting it to Not Set(No) or Never (though we know to never use Never!) will mean their posts aren't moderated. Of course we now know it's the opposite of these.

    I think that the suggested alternative would make the permission clearer.
     
    Amaury, Mr Lucky, AtoZ and 3 others like this.
  2. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    This has been suggested before.

    Your proposal won't work for nodes which have all posts moderated.
     
  3. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I did search for this before posting but couldn't find it.

    I forgot that you could set a forum to have all posts moderated in the forum set-up, I was just looking at the forum permissions and there's nothing there for this.

    Maybe the "Allow new messages to be posted in this forum" and "Moderate all messages posted in this forum" permissions in the forum set-up should be moved to forum permissions? (I'm sure you'll tell me this has been suggested previously?) You could then probably do something with rejigging the "Moderate all messages posted in this forum" and "Follow message moderation rules", possibly reducing from two to one permission.
     
  4. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    ForestForTrees and Martok like this.
  5. Rob

    Rob Well-Known Member

    @Brogan.... is there a way to ensure that all posts from a specific user are placed into moderation without having to create a specific usergroup and setting permissions on each forum?
     
  6. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    You can change the individual user's permissions directly - admin.php?user-permissions/
     
  7. Rob

    Rob Well-Known Member

    let me get this straight then.... 'follow forum moderation rules'

    I took that to mean that the user would follow the forum's normal moderation settings (which is no moderation on most forums).
    I have to say... im not normally this thick but can you explain a little more?
     
    tekgirl likes this.
  8. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Set it to Never for the user in question.
    That will override the Allow set elsewhere in any user groups they are a member of.
     
    Rob likes this.
  9. Rob

    Rob Well-Known Member

    Brilliant!! working well.
    I have to say tho... this phrase is genuinely confusing.
     
    tekgirl likes this.
  10. Zenexer

    Zenexer Active Member

    The current phrase is not clear. Its technical accuracy isn't nearly as important as whether the user understands the purpose of the permission. There are all sorts of alternative wordings that would get the point across; the current phrase does not do that for your average user reading the page without complete knowledge of every corner of XenForo.

    Here are a few ideas:
    • "Make unmoderated posts"--nobody's saying it's not denied elsewhere
    • "Bypass moderation queue on unmoderated forums"--technically accurate
    On second thought, why not do away with the forum option and just leave it up to permissions? That'd solve this whole problem.
     
    StarArmy and NamePros like this.
  11. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    The forum option is required if you want all posts moderated in just one (or selected) forums. Without the option you'd only be able to moderate posts in all forums or none at all.
     
  12. Harpers Tate

    Harpers Tate Well-Known Member

    I, too, find this very hard to follow. The best I can come up with is
    "Do not moderate posts in unmoderated forums".... (I think!!)
     
  13. Zenexer

    Zenexer Active Member

    No, it could be switched to a forum permission, where it could be set per-node or globally. This would be superior to the current model.
     
    NamePros likes this.
  14. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    So you'd still need to set it on a per node basis, just like it is now.
     
  15. Zenexer

    Zenexer Active Member

    No, you could set it globally, just like any forum permission. The idea is that the text would change because there wouldn't be this unusual link between a permission and an option.

    The point is that there is currently an option for what should be a permission, and this is causing confusion due to an unnecessarily complex relationship between the option and an associated permission.
     
  16. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    You can already set moderation globally in permissions. The problem arises when you only want to moderate in certain forums, hence the option within a node to make that node moderated.
     
  17. Zenexer

    Zenexer Active Member

    If the permission were a forum permission, you could do the same thing, minus one unnecessary option. This proposal would not come with any functionality whatsoever. It is purely a simplification.
     
  18. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    I don't see how this makes it any easier. You'd still need to specify in user group permissions the groups that you want global moderation and those you don't and you'd still need to specify any individual nodes that you want moderation for all groups irrelevant of the global settings.
     
  19. Zenexer

    Zenexer Active Member

    Let me try explaining this from the top.

    Each permission is associated with two groups: an interface group and a permission group. Interface groups determine which header the permission appears under in the control panel, and have no functional consequence. Permission groups, on the other hand, can change how a permission works.

    Currently, the moderation permission is in the "general" permission group. Permissions in this group can't be changed on a per-node basis. The "forum" group, on the other hand, can be changed both globally and per-node. If the permission were moved to this permission group, it would behave exactly like a combination of the currently-implemented option and permission.

    As it stands, the option has the functionality of a permission. From a UX standpoint, this is poor design. It's unnecessarily complex and confusing. Users don't understand the relationship between the option and the permission. By eliminating the option, the permission would be much simpler. The title could be changed to something less confusing and it would still be technically accurate, and we wouldn't have to worry about the relationship between a permission and an option.

    Functionally, it's exactly the same. However, it's a better design.
     
    NamePros likes this.
  20. Zenexer

    Zenexer Active Member

    Actually, I take that back--it wouldn't be functionally the same. You would have finer-grain control over which groups are moderated.
     

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