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Implemented Change "Follow message moderation rules" phrase

Martok

Well-known member
#1
I'd like to propose that it is permission phrase is changed to "Make posts without moderation".

It seems that many who are new to Xenforo are confused by the current phrase and often think that setting "Follow message moderation rules" to Allow will mean a user or group will then have their posts moderated or that setting it to Not Set(No) or Never (though we know to never use Never!) will mean their posts aren't moderated. Of course we now know it's the opposite of these.

I think that the suggested alternative would make the permission clearer.
 

Martok

Well-known member
#3
Sorry, I did search for this before posting but couldn't find it.

I forgot that you could set a forum to have all posts moderated in the forum set-up, I was just looking at the forum permissions and there's nothing there for this.

Maybe the "Allow new messages to be posted in this forum" and "Moderate all messages posted in this forum" permissions in the forum set-up should be moved to forum permissions? (I'm sure you'll tell me this has been suggested previously?) You could then probably do something with rejigging the "Moderate all messages posted in this forum" and "Follow message moderation rules", possibly reducing from two to one permission.
 

Rob

Well-known member
#5
@Brogan.... is there a way to ensure that all posts from a specific user are placed into moderation without having to create a specific usergroup and setting permissions on each forum?
 

Rob

Well-known member
#7
let me get this straight then.... 'follow forum moderation rules'

I took that to mean that the user would follow the forum's normal moderation settings (which is no moderation on most forums).
I have to say... im not normally this thick but can you explain a little more?
 

Brogan

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#8
Set it to Never for the user in question.
That will override the Allow set elsewhere in any user groups they are a member of.
 

Zenexer

Active member
#10
The current phrase is not clear. Its technical accuracy isn't nearly as important as whether the user understands the purpose of the permission. There are all sorts of alternative wordings that would get the point across; the current phrase does not do that for your average user reading the page without complete knowledge of every corner of XenForo.

Here are a few ideas:
  • "Make unmoderated posts"--nobody's saying it's not denied elsewhere
  • "Bypass moderation queue on unmoderated forums"--technically accurate
On second thought, why not do away with the forum option and just leave it up to permissions? That'd solve this whole problem.
 

Martok

Well-known member
#11
On second thought, why not do away with the forum option and just leave it up to permissions? That'd solve this whole problem.
The forum option is required if you want all posts moderated in just one (or selected) forums. Without the option you'd only be able to moderate posts in all forums or none at all.
 

Zenexer

Active member
#13
The forum option is required if you want all posts moderated in just one (or selected) forums. Without the option you'd only be able to moderate posts in all forums or none at all.
No, it could be switched to a forum permission, where it could be set per-node or globally. This would be superior to the current model.
 

Zenexer

Active member
#15
So you'd still need to set it on a per node basis, just like it is now.
No, you could set it globally, just like any forum permission. The idea is that the text would change because there wouldn't be this unusual link between a permission and an option.

The point is that there is currently an option for what should be a permission, and this is causing confusion due to an unnecessarily complex relationship between the option and an associated permission.
 

Martok

Well-known member
#16
No, you could set it globally, just like any forum permission. The idea is that the text would change because there wouldn't be this unusual link between a permission and an option.
You can already set moderation globally in permissions. The problem arises when you only want to moderate in certain forums, hence the option within a node to make that node moderated.
 

Zenexer

Active member
#17
You can already set moderation globally in permissions. The problem arises when you only want to moderate in certain forums, hence the option within a node to make that node moderated.
If the permission were a forum permission, you could do the same thing, minus one unnecessary option. This proposal would not come with any functionality whatsoever. It is purely a simplification.
 

Martok

Well-known member
#18
If the permission were a forum permission, you could do the same thing, minus one unnecessary option. This proposal would not come with any functionality whatsoever. It is purely a simplification.
I don't see how this makes it any easier. You'd still need to specify in user group permissions the groups that you want global moderation and those you don't and you'd still need to specify any individual nodes that you want moderation for all groups irrelevant of the global settings.
 

Zenexer

Active member
#19
Let me try explaining this from the top.

Each permission is associated with two groups: an interface group and a permission group. Interface groups determine which header the permission appears under in the control panel, and have no functional consequence. Permission groups, on the other hand, can change how a permission works.

Currently, the moderation permission is in the "general" permission group. Permissions in this group can't be changed on a per-node basis. The "forum" group, on the other hand, can be changed both globally and per-node. If the permission were moved to this permission group, it would behave exactly like a combination of the currently-implemented option and permission.

As it stands, the option has the functionality of a permission. From a UX standpoint, this is poor design. It's unnecessarily complex and confusing. Users don't understand the relationship between the option and the permission. By eliminating the option, the permission would be much simpler. The title could be changed to something less confusing and it would still be technically accurate, and we wouldn't have to worry about the relationship between a permission and an option.

Functionally, it's exactly the same. However, it's a better design.
 

Zenexer

Active member
#20
Actually, I take that back--it wouldn't be functionally the same. You would have finer-grain control over which groups are moderated.