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Blatant Liars on PayPal Disputes

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Liam W, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. Liam W

    Liam W Well-Known Member

    So, I've had another PayPal dispute... This time 'goods not received'.

    Despite the fact I can see quite clearly in my database the exact time the add-on was downloaded...

    It's been 'escalated to PayPal' now, so I'll hope for the best. It wasn't much, but all money counts.

    Chris D likes this.
  2. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Well-Known Member

    Was the project description clear and all agreed conditions met? i.e. were the agreed good received completely?
  3. Liam W

    Liam W Well-Known Member

    It was a pre-created add-on purchased from my site using the automated system.
  4. JamesBrown

    JamesBrown Well-Known Member

    Do Paypal ever side with the seller when it is a software download?
  5. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Well-Known Member

    Then its simple: tell them its an intangible item, which was downloaded from your server.
  6. Dadparvar

    Dadparvar Well-Known Member

    Once it happened to me too. An admin of Null site purchased and as I knew him, I reported him in Sellfy. They removed him and then he asked for refund in paypal for 2 products. (I gave enough info to paypal and they decided both of them in favor of me)
    A lot before paypal, I reported him to XF staffs. I'm not sure what they did to him on xenforo.

    If you have any log that shows he downloaded, and/or any conversation that shows his happiness about your add-on, then can be good clue and paypal will accept it. (IMO)
  7. Snog

    Snog Well-Known Member

    Always record the date/time it was ordered, the date/time it was downloaded, the IP address it was ordered from, the IP address it was downloaded from and any other pertinent information you can think of. I've had most of my disputes settled in my favor by supplying all of that information to PayPal.

    From PayPal...
    The more information you provide that the product was downloaded, the better.
  8. Jaxel

    Jaxel Well-Known Member

    I lose about $200 a week in paypal disputes... there is nothing you can do about it. Paypal ALWAYS sides with the buyer in the case of digital goods.

    Even when I send Paypal logs of downloads, times, IP addresses... doesn't matter. That extra $800-1000 a month really hurts.
  9. Amaury

    Amaury Well-Known Member

    From reading the above, it seems PayPal only cares about the buyers, not the sellers.
  10. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

    Not quite, if a charge back comes in as an unauthorized purchase it's very hard to dispute it. However if someone says they didn't receive the file, or it's "not as described" you have a fighting chance. The past few times paypal has actually handled it like this for me:

    Dear Russ,

    We’ve completed our review of this case. Due to the unique circumstances, we've decided to refund the buyer at no cost to you.

    Your account won't be debited and the case has been closed.

    Have you tried limited purchases to verified XF users? I think switching to a simple XF board with say the product manager along with the XF verification could go quite a way for you especially if you're losing almost a $1000 a month. I don't even get that in a year
  11. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 Well-Known Member

    I'd bet that your add-on recorded it as downloaded the instant the download started. Had the download not completed for any reason (downloader's battery dying, power outage, bad connection, accidentally hitting cancel, etc...) it's possible they did not receive the complete file.

    Does your system allow them to download it again? Most online sellers of software make the download link active for a week or so in my experience so there is no reason the buyer can't get a copy.

    If your system limits it to a single download that could be a real problem.

    My answer would have been "If they didn't download it, they can go back and download it again." The fact you didn't say that concerns me you are using some kind of single download and done system.
  12. Liam W

    Liam W Well-Known Member

    They can download the latest version released up until their license expired. I don't restrict downloads in any way (XPM doesn't even support that).
  13. Dakota Storm

    Dakota Storm Well-Known Member

    Liam have you actually phoned PayPal and speaking with them? If you haven't, I would advise it.
  14. Anthony Parsons

    Anthony Parsons Well-Known Member

    That is incorrect. I win most digital disputes for digital services, and the reason is that you need to know Paypal terms and conditions for selling them, and then ensure your terms contain the right words in which the buyer agrees. You then use those exact terms in your response to Paypal.

    I have won 90% + of my chargebacks this way. Know the rules, basically, and make sure your buyer is agreeing to them.
  15. Liam W

    Liam W Well-Known Member

    I don't like phoning PayPal. I end up shouting.
  16. RichardKYA

    RichardKYA Well-Known Member

    Just ask them to turn the volume up on their phone. Save your vocal chords. #useyourindoorvoice
  17. Dakota Storm

    Dakota Storm Well-Known Member

    PayPal's dispute system is mostly automated, speaking to a real person and explaining everything to them usually helps.. A lot.
  18. Anthony Parsons

    Anthony Parsons Well-Known Member

    This may help those having issues with paypal chargebacks for downloads / services / subscriptions: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/customer-concerns

    Follow the info on that page and ensure you have terms that match paypal within your policies. When a chargeback occurs, ensure you can provide them with the IP of the transaction, email address of the account, so forth, as Paypal then use that data to match transaction validity. Ensure you provide evidence that they accessed the service / download, and then paypal will typically favour you. Upload everything you have to them for clear confirmation they got the service / electronic good.
    Snog likes this.
  19. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Well-Known Member

  20. whynot

    whynot Well-Known Member

    For me both of them work.

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