Any news about Xenforo 3.0, can we expect modern forum?

[qnkov]

Hello. For half a year, I have been looking for a modern forum system to start an anime/manga site with various features. For example, a video system for watching movies/episodes, a way to add manga/anime as pages with information about them, topics with posters, etc. I saw that all of this is possible with Invision Community.

I waited to see version 5, but it turned out that the self-hosted platform is extremely expensive and has functionality limits. They also changed the way we acquire add-ons, significantly restricting options, and almost no themes exist for their latest version.

On the other hand, XenForo seems like a better alternative in terms of user base and price, but the forum and themes, in general, look like they’re from the early 2000s. I understand that some may find this nostalgic, but it looks incredibly outdated and is not visually appealing.

That’s why I’m wondering what exactly to expect with version 3.0. Can we anticipate a modern interface similar to Invision Community? I really don't want to go to invision as they may drop self-hosted in next version, as they aim for big comapanies, not common users now.

 

[ES Dev Team]

Essentially anything exposed to the internet is going to get attacked ruthlessly by AI scrapers or people probing for vulnerabilities at this point.

 

[smallwheels]

Please cite where almost all hobby forums are running on shared web hosting.

I never said that. You spoke of "websites"...

Given the simplicity to drive a CPU spike on many websites nowadays especially behind shared hosting - it’s just a matter of when. That being said, your shared hosting forum is one L7 attack away from RIP. If someone wants to make money that is an instant no-go because down websites make no money. And even hobby websites should aspire to not go down easily.

... and so did I. Given the amount of offerings for shared hosting and the amount of private people and small businesses that run small, low traffic web sites it is simple math and probability that a huge amount of the existing websites is living on shared hosting.

I would say more people have likely graduated to a VPS, or dedicated server due to some of the reasons I am sharing above.

I think this is rather confirmation bias than actual facts: You have done it so every reasonable person has to have done it. Do you have any reliable numbers? I heavily doubt that the average person running a website is running an own VPS. A bunch may have moved to cloud offerings, but joe average's private or small business website will probably happily live on shared hosting.

Regarding

it’s just a matter of when

I've been running websites for roughly 25 years. Own projects as well as for others. From tiny private ones to massive eCommerce businesses. The latter obviously typically used a swarm of dedicated servers and most of them have been moving to the cloud over the last ~17 years. The others typically ran on shared hosting and many continue to do so. I've yet to see such an attack on any of those small websites. As @Faust says

First of all, you need to have a website worth of being attacked.

I've seen more startups running a massive server park for 30 daily visitors than I've seen attacks on smaller projects.

Still this has not the slightest to do with the topic of the thread.

 

[Austin Bollinger]

Essentially anything exposed to the internet is going to get attacked ruthlessly by AI scrapers or people probing for vulnerabilities at this point.

Spot-on, that is effectively all I was trying to say. Your wording is most-elegant.

I will hit the eject button on discussing any further as seemingly some folks believe their $1 dollar store shared hosting charges are worth it to take the risk of web security, and lack layered security controls. "I hit the anti ddos button I am safe"

 

[Max Fridman]

Would definitely love to know why niche those websites were.

Some were dedicated to very specific topics like wine and beer. Others focused on hobbies such as falconry; in some cases, they were private community forums with paid access.

If you produce valuable content, people want to interact with others who share their passions; it’s up to us to provide them with the space to do so. The point is to create content that isn’t derived from “research” but from direct experience, and therefore from genuine passion.

Wouldn't agree here. Shared hosting is suffient, so the monthly cost is low. Initial licensing may seem not too cheap but extensions are. So you can run a forum on a shoestring and it is surprisingly cheap. If you install a lot of paid add ons this will open a lot of possibilities but it will turn out that it rises the monthly/yearly cost significantly - I do pay way more for add on updates per year than I pay for the XF license.

I was talking more about advertising than about the costs of “launching” and “maintaining” the site. Especially since, at the beginning, you're bootstrapping it, treating it as a hobby, not making a single cent, and actually running at a loss.

Sooner or later, you'll have to try to break even. That said, it’s not necessarily the case. Many people are perfectly happy to run their communities as a “hobby” without any financial return. And I respect them. At least they don’t complain about how outdated Xenforo is.

I often read about people who want to make money from their websites but can’t, and that’s why they believe forums are completely dead. And these are the usual arguments. Then you go check out those websites and see poorly organized content, even worse-managed sections, no useful plugins purchased in years, no content creation plan, no content hierarchy, and, to top it all off, outdated and sloppy design.

It’s just that every now and then—and I’m speaking as a business owner—it would be nice to read objective perspectives from people who share their experiences from X years of management. Instead of always reading empty complaints and wish lists that often don't actually include useful items.

This is the first time someone has shared their experience with Discourse and explained why they preferred XenForo. I see it too: we’re stuck in a rut. But there are plenty of ways to make your communities “special” and better for visitors and users.

But no one talks about that. For example, how we structure premium subscriptions, what’s offered, whether Page Nodes are used and how they’re utilized, or interesting ways to use custom fields in discussions or whether custom BB Codes are used, and if so, for what.

Perhaps—and I say perhaps—we’ve lost the desire to share, to challenge ourselves, and to learn from others’ experiences, and that’s why our communities have died out.

 

[Faust]

Some were dedicated to very specific topics like wine and beer. Others focused on hobbies such as falconry; in some cases, they were private community forums with paid access.

If you produce valuable content, people want to interact with others who share their passions; it’s up to us to provide them with the space to do so. The point is to create content that isn’t derived from “research” but from direct experience, and therefore from genuine passion.

Thanks for the tips, my communities are niche focused as well, but didn't made any money. Regarding the content, people nowadays can get that using Ai

 

[Max Fridman]

my communities are niche focused as well, but didn't made any money

First of all, every forum needs to figure out how it can be monetized. B2C, B2B, or both? So, should you reach out to companies in your industry? Or can you provide services to your users?

Can you create sponsored content? Can you feature their logo and backlinks on your site, as well as do content marketing for them to help them achieve higher SEO rankings? You can look for partners (bronze, silver, gold) who will pay to keep your site online if they’re associations or similar organizations.

Regarding the content, people nowadays can get that using Ai

AI can't find everything or explain everything. There are some things that require human input. Many AI responses lack critical thinking.

For example, if I ask Gemini 3.1 Pro, GPT, or Claude how to optimize my website for SEO, they’ll give me suggestions, but some of them will be obvious mistakes. So it’s best not to implement those changes, or I risk hurting my ranking.

 

[Mendalla]

There are some things that require human input. Many AI responses lack critical thinking.

Amen. My site isn't about factual material that can be obtained from AI or a search engine (or, as is increasingly the case, a combination of the two). It is people discussing their spiritual beliefs and ideas and sharing in a community. There's no answers, just ideas and feelings. AI can't do that.

 

[Suzanne O]

I don't use AI on my forum.
It's there for us to use but we haven't needed to use it.
If we chose to use it would be used at registration.

 

[ES Dev Team]

Spot-on, that is effectively all I was trying to say. Your wording is most-elegant.

I will hit the eject button on discussing any further as seemingly some folks believe their $1 dollar store shared hosting charges are worth it to take the risk of web security, and lack layered security controls. "I hit the anti ddos button I am safe"

Lol, yeah. Not understanding unix when operating a website today is just asking for a job at the long week factory.



I've been administering servers since 2014 and in the last couple years, the sophistication and abilities of scammers/cc testers/ai scrapers rose from a joke to a professional level. I am continually challenged and doing a mixture of building bespoke protection technologies and adopting + tuning off the shelf tools to allow websites to continue to operate in the face of that.

I wish Xenforo was doing something to equip it's self hosted users for success, even if it was just maintaining a best practices guide for securing it. Otherwise, Self Hosted is an endangered species only enjoyed by those with access or will to learn the unix black arts.

 

[Faust]

First of all, every forum needs to figure out how it can be monetized. B2C, B2B, or both? So, should you reach out to companies in your industry? Or can you provide services to your users?

Can you create sponsored content? Can you feature their logo and backlinks on your site, as well as do content marketing for them to help them achieve higher SEO rankings? You can look for partners (bronze, silver, gold) who will pay to keep your site online if they’re associations or similar organizations.

If you look at my forums from signature, you’ll see all are hobbyists forum, with little to no chance to make money from them.

 

[TheGroove]

First of all, every forum needs to figure out how it can be monetized. B2C, B2B, or both? So, should you reach out to companies in your industry? Or can you provide services to your users?

Can you create sponsored content? Can you feature their logo and backlinks on your site, as well as do content marketing for them to help them achieve higher SEO rankings? You can look for partners (bronze, silver, gold) who will pay to keep your site online if they’re associations or similar organizations.



AI can't find everything or explain everything. There are some things that require human input. Many AI responses lack critical thinking.

For example, if I ask Gemini 3.1 Pro, GPT, or Claude how to optimize my website for SEO, they’ll give me suggestions, but some of them will be obvious mistakes. So it’s best not to implement those changes, or I risk hurting my ranking.

All attempts to get my niche started on my own forum have failed, I mean I get some conversation but there's no way I can monetize it due to lack of traffic/activity.

I took the same thing to Instagram and Facebook and grew both to over 100K followers and regularly monetize my content now. There is simply no comparison, if one is grandfathered in on a forum I can understand but trying to get something off the ground or attempting to grow a mediocre forum is very difficult.

Additionally, most of the forum sites I used to frequent before social media really took off are either gone or much slower than they once were.

 

[smallwheels]

I was talking more about advertising than about the costs of “launching” and “maintaining” the site.

I've not spent a single penny on advertizing. Why should I?

Especially since, at the beginning, you're bootstrapping it, treating it as a hobby, not making a single cent, and actually running at a loss.

Sooner or later, you'll have to try to break even.

It is a hobby, that was a deliberate decision. The direct cost of the forum are covered through donations from the users that we collect when doing events. We don't even have a donation button on the webpage. No advertizing, no premium access, no sponsored content or any other form or monetarization.

First of all, every forum needs to figure out how it can be monetized.

No. Only if you want to run it commercially. All in the direct cost of running my forum aggregate to about 500-800€/year, depending from how much I spend for add on licenses and renewals in any given year. Hosting and domain is ~200€ of that. If I would however count the time in that I spent for administration, moderation and content creation it would not work out with the current philosophy of the forum and if would like to cover that or really earn money it would change the culture of our forum massively and not in a positive way (and probably still not be sucessful and clearly not be an interesting business model).

some folks believe their $1 dollar store shared hosting charges are worth it to take the risk of web security, and lack layered security controls. "I hit the anti ddos button I am safe"

Lol, yeah. Not understanding unix when operating a website today is just asking for a job at the long week factory.

As @Austin Bollinger obviously targeted at me with this: You are barking the wrong tree. I've bee administrating Unix systems since the mid nineties including doing network security administration as a profession for big banks and eCommerce companies and have dealt with various unices over time from Solaris over HP UX, various FreeBSD, OpenBSD and various Linux variants. Yet still I am deliberately running my forum on shared hosting - simply b/c it is sufficient for the size of the forum and I don't have to bother with dealing with the OS. So I am running on shared hosting not because I would be unable to deal with the OS but because I know what it means to deal with the OS and want to save the time and effort for that and at the current forum size do not need the options that going away from shared hosting would offer. This may change with further growth when needs arise, but not for the moment.

 

[Mendalla]

Otherwise, Self Hosted is an endangered species only enjoyed by those with access or will to learn the unix black arts.

My site is blessed with two IT professionals (me and a retired security consultant) among its members who are willing to use those talents for the community. Absent us and another member who is a talented amateur with a background running forums, the site would probably have to be in the cloud or pay someone.

And the cloud comes with its own liabilities. A site I am on that uses cloud-based SaaS social/forum software lost its notification system for most of yesterday and all the mods and admin could do was report the issue and wait for the provider to fix it. This site breaks with irritating regularity due, I suspect, to the provider using some kind of continuous update cycle with insufficient QA or making changes without testing to see the impact. I have hinted that I know a better alternative (XF Cloud) but no one has bitten yet.

 

[Max Fridman]

I've not spent a single penny on advertizing. Why should I?

I wasn’t talking about you specifically; I was talking about people who want to start a forum with a clear commercial purpose. Only to fail at monetizing it and then blame the Xenforo platform.

In fact, in my own message I said:

That said, it’s not necessarily the case. Many people are perfectly happy to run their communities as a “hobby” without any financial return. And I respect them. At least they don’t complain about how outdated Xenforo is.

It is a hobby, that was a deliberate decision. The direct cost of the forum are covered through donations from the users that we collect when doing events. We don't even have a donation button on the webpage. No advertizing, no premium access, no sponsored content or any other form or monetarization.

Well, I mean, it’s great that there are organizations that can sustain themselves through volunteer work. No one was criticizing that.
The discussion was about whether the Xenforo platform was fundamentally doomed to fail for any commercial project. Whether due to outdated design or other factors.

No. Only if you want to run it commercially. All in the direct cost of running my forum aggregate to about 500-800€/year, depending from how much I spend for add on licenses and renewals in any given year. Hosting and domain is ~200€ of that. If I would however count the time in that I spent for administration, moderation and content creation it would not work out with the current philosophy of the forum and if would like to cover that or really earn money it would change the culture of our forum massively and not in a positive way (and probably still not be sucessful and clearly not be an interesting business model).

Of course, I was just talking about those who want to make a profit off of it. And those are often the very people who criticize the platform the most. And they’re the loudest ones on this forum.

At least from my point of view. I don't know why you took it so personally. My comment was extremely general, partly because I don't know all the websites that everyone on this forum runs. I can only speak from my own impression.

Besides, people who run a forum as a hobby aren't that interested in constant updates because they might not be able to devote much time to maintenance.

Nor have I ever said that running a forum as a hobby is expensive. Quite the opposite. Then again, excuse me, but there are people who want to devote time and mental energy to it, yet may not be able to spend what’s needed each month to keep the site online, so they’ll look for a way to cover their basic costs somehow.

I don’t see anything wrong with that. Of course, everyone makes their own choices, but no one was criticizing anyone for that.

I took the same thing to Instagram and Facebook and grew both to over 100K followers and regularly monetize my content now. There is simply no comparison, if one is grandfathered in on a forum I can understand but trying to get something off the ground or attempting to grow a mediocre forum is very difficult.

But I never said that forums are a one-size-fits-all solution; on the contrary, I’ve said many times that growing a forum is difficult, partly because it involves third-party participation, whereas Instagram and Facebook are social media platforms (primarily Instagram—though Facebook groups are different) where posts, videos, and content are fed down from the top (much like YouTube in some ways), creating a channel-to-viewer relationship rather than a “community.”

I’d be short-sighted not to understand how certain projects are incompatible with forums. But it’s also worth noting that tying yourself too closely to Instagram and Facebook means “outsourcing” all your users to a platform you don’t control.

This is obviously bad for any business. That’s why anyone looking to protect themselves in the long run tries to bring people to platforms they control (if not a forum, then a newsletter, a forum of some kind that requires registration, or something similar).

Everything has its pros and cons. And so it needs to be weighed carefully.

 

[Tamer]

I don’t judge XF only by its appearance because I have almost unlimited power over the templates. That is great!

If you think you can create an ultra-modern community just by installing modern-looking software, you are wrong. Any path that does not go through long-term vision, concept, structure, content, customization, moderation and maintenance is a dark one. With XF, you may need add-ons or custom development. But that does not mean XF is the wrong platform. It only means you need to build it properly.

This is exactly where I think XF is still one of the strongest options. It gives you ownership, permissions, moderation, members, threads, history and, most importantly, a stable foundation under your own domain. That matters. Because it is very different from creating social media pages or accounts where you may gain reach, but you do not own the platform, the rules, the distribution or the user relationship.

I really do not think the future of forums depends on XF 3 looking like a popular social media app. A community without patience, consistency and strategy cannot succeed just because it looks modern.

Anyway… For me, customization is part of the art. XF gives you the engine. You have to build the identity, the experience and the culture.

What you build with it is on you.

 

[angelchovski]

So older users don't mean crap to the Internet anymore?

Nice. Really nice. Good way to spew more hatred in these divisive times.

I've been working in web forums since 1997. Was with Compuserve several years prior, some of that time as a sysop. Don't tell me what works and what doesn't.

Got news for all of you. We still get younger users on our forums and you know what? They have no problems whatsoever figuring it out. None. There is nothing dated about the functionality. If it looks old, put a new frickin' skin on it and be done with it.

It's the clueless dolts from social media who can't use a forum. And no forum wants that level of stupidity visiting their community...the ones who can only write in acronyms and end every sentence with "lol" instead of punctuation they learned in effing grade school, and ask questions without doing the most rudimentary of searches. They are the ones who need the crutches of algorithms to push content around so they actually notice it, as they have the attention span of a flea with ADHD.

I'm done with this pointless conversation.

Wildcat Media nailed it. The forum isn't outdated - the expectations of people raised on algorithms instead of critical thinking are. I've been building communities since the early 90s, including writing my own PHP forum from scratch while learning from a book. Never had trouble attracting younger users. The problem isn't the interface - it's the habit of waiting for content to find you instead of going after it yourself. XenForo gives you the tools. The community gives you the soul. A modern skin takes five minutes - character can't be installed.

 

[Tamer]

The community gives you the soul. A modern skin takes five minutes - character can't be installed.

Bingo! This is exactly the point many people miss.