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Add cheap Escrow service to paid development projects

Alfa1

Well-known member
#1
Quite a lot of webmasters hire developers here on xenforo.com Unfortunately there are quite a lot of bad apples on both sides. Which makes it really hard to hire developers or to trust a client.
I have learned the hard way to never pay developers up front again. However, developers have learned that they need to get paid up front. So this is a catch22 that makes it really hard to hire new developers on xenforo.com

As it stands xenforo.com is just not a safe place for this.

I would suggest to XenForo LTD to consider to add a cheap Escrow service to the paid development section. For example trough the API of Armor payments / Payoneer which is especially for marketplaces and handles not only the payments, but also the disputes. As the fee is really low, this would be a great enhancement to XF which could resolve a major handicap.
 

Liam W

Well-known member
#2
The problem with that is I'd end up waiting ages (2-3 days is ages) to actually get my money when the work is done.

Not to mention I generally don't require people to pay in advance...

It just isn't a good option for small fees.

Liam
 

Snog

Well-known member
#3
I would have to agree with @Liam W on this.

I don't do a lot of custom work for new clients. But, I never require payment up front.

I provide a demo of the finished, working code on a test site. Once the client is satisfied with what it's doing, payment is made and then the client gets the files. After that any bug fixes are included in the original price.

IMHO, full payment up front should raise all sorts of red flags and should never be done.
 

Alfa1

Well-known member
#4
If the developer doesn't require up front payment, then there is no need to use escrow.

For projects under $5000 there is a 1.5% fee. If you have a payoneer account payment is instant. Transferring to bank, credit card, etc, can take a few days.
 

Snog

Well-known member
#5
If the developer doesn't require up front payment, then there is no need to use escrow.

For projects under $5000 there is a 1.5% fee. If you have a payoneer account payment is instant. Transferring to bank, credit card, etc, can take a few days.
As I said, if a developer is requesting full payment up front... run, don't walk away.

There is absolutely no reason full payment up front should be made for any custom work.
 

Liam W

Well-known member
#6
If the developer doesn't require up front payment, then there is no need to use escrow.

For projects under $5000 there is a 1.5% fee. If you have a payoneer account payment is instant. Transferring to bank, credit card, etc, can take a few days.
I've never heard of Payoneer though. What accepts it? With PayPal, I can transfer money to my bank account instantly.
 

Alfa1

Well-known member
#7
I've never heard of Payoneer though. What accepts it? With PayPal, I can transfer money to my bank account instantly.
I used Payoneer before to pay developers in countries where PayPal doesn't operate. Its aimed at freelancers and now that it has taken over Armor payments its also aimed at marketplaces. It works well and does everything PayPal does.
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
#9
For larger jobs, split the project into milestones and have payment and review code after each milestone.

It's interesting that you seem to suggest that this behaviour is somewhat prolific yet that is on the contrary to what our perception is based on issues that have been reported to us.

This either means the claims in the OP are somewhat exaggerated (maybe not intentionally but just by your own perceptions) or this kind of thing is going on and not being reported to us.

Certainly if it's the latter it is of course difficult for us to get involved in such disputes but at least if it's reported to us and a pattern emerges we can begin to take steps to remove those individuals.

If we are talking about massive projects; crowdfunds for example, those projects are no longer permitted here anyway.
 

wang

Well-known member
#10
Quite a lot of webmasters hire developers here on xenforo.com Unfortunately there are quite a lot of bad apples on both sides. Which makes it really hard to hire developers or to trust a client.
I have learned the hard way to never pay developers up front again. However, developers have learned that they need to get paid up front. So this is a catch22 that makes it really hard to hire new developers on xenforo.com
You must never pay the whole amount up front sir. The best thing is to pay half of the payment up front, and the rest when the work has been completed according to whatever terms you reached with the developer you hired. Or for bigger jobs, to pay it into milestones as suggested above.
 

Alfa1

Well-known member
#11
It's interesting that you seem to suggest that this behaviour is somewhat prolific yet that is on the contrary to what our perception is based on issues that have been reported to us.
The problem includes developers not being able to produce usable code. i.e. endless streams of bugs, insecure code or very slow queries. Should we report half baked paid projects?
I cant imagine that the XF staff would want the headache. (which is why I suggested a service that handles disputes)

On the other hand I frequently heard from developers that they lost money on unethical clients.
 
#12
It should be between the client and the programmer directly. Even though XF wouldn't get involved in the disputes, and those disputes would be handled by a third party, XF could be named as a defendant in a case because they were part of the chain, and I am sure that's not something they want to deal with.
 

Alfa1

Well-known member
#13
XF could be named as a defendant in a case because they were part of the chain
That's currently no different. Both now and in the case of having a third party escrow service available, XF is not involved in the chain of payment. XF only offers the platform for the parties to come to an agreement.