High Number of Paypal Chargebacks This Month?
- Thread starter Jaxel
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Sheratan
Well-known member
Revenge is sweet~
I spoke with both Robbo and Chris Deeming about this a while back.
I planned out a XenForo linked (using validation keys) sale system, which basically meant, 100% traceability to anyone who purchased addons, and as they were linked to customer tokens, and not individual tokens, once a chargeback has been filed once, they would be blocked from any further purchases.
The downside, is that for it to be most effective, most addon devs would need to agree to use it, and there would need to be a minimal monthly cost to addon devs to fund the hosting and maintainance.
If this is something which would interest addon devs, let me know, I have it all specced out and can shoot it across into development very quickly.
I planned out a XenForo linked (using validation keys) sale system, which basically meant, 100% traceability to anyone who purchased addons, and as they were linked to customer tokens, and not individual tokens, once a chargeback has been filed once, they would be blocked from any further purchases.
The downside, is that for it to be most effective, most addon devs would need to agree to use it, and there would need to be a minimal monthly cost to addon devs to fund the hosting and maintainance.
If this is something which would interest addon devs, let me know, I have it all specced out and can shoot it across into development very quickly.
Sorry to hear about it. 1000 bucks is quite a lot of money. Have you considered to sell only to users who can prove that they are legit/valid license holders? Also do not email them the mods immediately but after a 24/48 hours wait time period after the purchase. This will prevent fraudalent purchases a lot from users who buy with stolen paypal accounts.
Alpha1
Well-known member
TBH I find it very weird that the Resource Manager does not include an addon license manager where users can buy, manage and extend their addon licenses. The fact that customers are sent to an unlinked location makes it so that customers become untraceable and not linked to XF licenses.This opens the door to fraud.
I would not be surprised if the large amount of charge-backs is related to purchases of unlicensed members of warez sites. Has anyone tied their software on one of these warez sites to such chargeback purchases?
I would not be surprised if the large amount of charge-backs is related to purchases of unlicensed members of warez sites. Has anyone tied their software on one of these warez sites to such chargeback purchases?
Adam Howard
Well-known member
2Checkout is your friend. They're more or less governed like a merchant account. Best of all they keep track of who does repeated charge backs & would decline such individuals.
Unlike paypal the same person can re-buy each time you have an update & each time charge it back.
The solution... The only solution .... Use something other than paypal or accept being ripped off.
FYI: 2Checkout's fees are compatible to paypal's & don't require your customers to have accounts with them.
https://www.2checkout.com/
Unlike paypal the same person can re-buy each time you have an update & each time charge it back.
The solution... The only solution .... Use something other than paypal or accept being ripped off.
FYI: 2Checkout's fees are compatible to paypal's & don't require your customers to have accounts with them.
https://www.2checkout.com/
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Mike Edge
Well-known member
This would be a great feature, as a host. I would also be interested in using it as I'm sure the same ones that try to charge us back are also the same ones charging dev's back. Though so sort of safety net also needs to be put in place, so sort of verify system that the claim is legit to prevent someone being added just because a dev has it out for that person, so adds them just to cause them more problems,
I would be happy to donate the resources needed on my xF Host servers to keep this a free project. Keeping it free will make more developers join.
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John
Well-known member
That's one of the many reasons I love IP.Nexus. It comes with integration with MaxMind that gives one the ability to set your own fraud rules based on a wide range of criteria. With it enabled, I'm able to "pre-screen" orders and put into a hold cue for manual approval ones that exceed my rules...and let ones that pass, complete without delay. I have reduced my chargebacks to zero. The other option is, as someone else suggested, go with someone like 2Checkout who do their own pre-screening. If they approve a sale, the seller is not held liable for a chargeback. The only downside to them is their fees are much higher than Paypal. Attached is a view of one such order that was stopped by the fraud service in Nexus (these are not all the rules I have set, just the one's that display):
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ManagerJosh
Well-known member
My firm is happy to look into some of these fraudulent orders. It's a bit hit or miss, but we're pretty much use to conducting investigations these days and we've had a few instances where we've successfully were able to locate the culprit and bring in law enforcement.
craigiri
Well-known member
Not sure if this angle has been presented, but chances are you have not "lost" any revenue at all, because said buyers would not have purchased the add-ons anyway. As to pirating, I am fairly certain that anyone who desires can end up with pirate copies of your add-ons if they have enough patience or plot properly.
So the biggest loss, IMHO, is the time and energy doing the accounting. etc.
As far as developers who make their add-ons harder to purchase, I honestly think they are being penny-wise and pound foolish. Many XF owners have dozens of add-ons and it's crazy to make them pay for something and then have to deal with singular schemes for each.
IMHO, anyway!
So the biggest loss, IMHO, is the time and energy doing the accounting. etc.
As far as developers who make their add-ons harder to purchase, I honestly think they are being penny-wise and pound foolish. Many XF owners have dozens of add-ons and it's crazy to make them pay for something and then have to deal with singular schemes for each.
IMHO, anyway!
ManagerJosh
Well-known member
craigiri, a small correction
A chargeback means you loose the cost of your plugin, the intellectual property, the time, and the chargeback processing fee (ranges anywhere between $20.00-$100.00 per chargeback).
So if one of the plugin vendors here was was selling a plugin at 50.00 + and had 10 chargebacks with fees @ 20.00 per chargeback, they just lost 500.00 in income and racked up 200.00 in chargeback fees.
In otherwords, they just lost 700.00 in revenue alone, not counting the loss of time and intellectual property too.
craigiri
Well-known member
My experience with chargebacks was only in the real world with credit cards and it cost me little or nothing (as the merchant)....just the money charged back. I'm not sure of paypal policies, but it's hard to imagine they charge $20 per.
Also, again, they didn't lose the revenue if they never would have made the sale anyway. In other words, the sale itself is a fraud...just the same as when people use my cc# to sign up for a dating service in NZ.
Also, again, they didn't lose the revenue if they never would have made the sale anyway. In other words, the sale itself is a fraud...just the same as when people use my cc# to sign up for a dating service in NZ.
Anthony Parsons
Well-known member
I say name and shame all and any information you have on them through the payment process.
Forsaken
Well-known member
Credit card companies charge you a fee on top of the amount that is disputed. Here is part of the email I got from Paypal this last Wednesday:
While it might not sound like much is lost in a chargeback, take into consideration that the price most people charge for their add-ons is a pittance if you look at the hours of work they've put into their product. Add support and updates on top of that and you can see why many of us are hostile to people who are charging back on us.
There is also the fact that chargebacks look badly on you in the eyes of Paypal or other companies (depending on who you're using) and can get your account closed. I had a lot of chargebacks back when I use to sell virtual goods for video games and had to deal with Paypal looking at closing my account. The only reason they didn't is because the majority of valid sales far outweighed the chargebacks.
And there is the obvious fact that chargebacks and piracy don't make you happy to continue doing work that you think isn't worth it. Just a single chargeback can ruin a good day or week.
Shelley
Well-known member
This.
Honestly developers should make it harder, more difficult to purchase and stick to their guns no matter how much people complain which they'll do. After all, it's the developers who's time and effort are being (how can I put it) mocked at to put it politely by thieving scumbags that probably haven't done or will ever do an honest days work.
@ developers - do what you need to do to protect your works. It's your resource, your time and effort and to me people who steal and hold an account here will be less inclined to chargeback if they are using other accounts and doing the sneaky.
Mike Edge
Well-known member
One of our few charge backs for hosting we received, that we won too at that.. Has a pretty high post count in this community. I won't go into more detail then that until a mod gives the green light on name and shame as they aren't worth getting in trouble for here.
Forsaken
Well-known member
You won the dispute, why not let it go? At most warn others privately, but doing so publicly will only damage your image and make people think you lack ethics.
The most I do with a chargeback is warn other developers or designers, and only with information they would get during a purchase by the person in question. Not that most of the information does much as most chargebacks that people get are either from a stolen Paypal, or fake user information which leaves you very little to work with.
For all the chargebacks I've had I pretty much take the blame myself because I either made an exception, or didn't check far enough on a sale before approving. There has only been one chargeback by a (relatively) well known member here, and I'd have wasted more time dealing with the drama of shaming them than I would have made off of the style.
Shelley
Well-known member
I'd like to know for sure because even though I don't take on custom work I get a large amount of pcs, emails a day asking me to do custom work. Thieves should be exposed imo and I don't need the nod from a staff member if it happened to me I'd just go ahead and post it.
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