XF 2.3 ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bob was considering looking at doing a wiki at one point... But the sheer number of features and the fact that everyone wants something different turned him away from it.
Oddly, when I think of it as an add-on, he seems like the one best placed to do it. But the fact that he pulled back for the reasons you give is all the more reason for XF to give it a wide berth or, at most, focus on basic functionality that others can build on.
 
Whereas for me, continuing to provide a stable, solid platform for a site remains paramount. New features are a bonus at this point and they need to be done so as not to affect the stability of the platform.


Not sure what that has to do with my post?
Wiki does not fit into a code base software.
FYI wikipedia can be edited by everyone on the planet which is not great at all. It's not secure enough to use.
Php is a coded language it's what xenforo use.
vBulletin uses both visual basic and php software.
None of those would put an insecure widely edited based software in it because it won't work.
Learn some coding by returning to uni and doing programming.
 
Wiki does not fit into a code base software.
FYI wikipedia can be edited by everyone on the planet which is not great at all. It's not secure enough to use.
I don't think @sbj is talking about inserting existing Wiki software into Xenforo but creating a Wiki-like capability for creating a shared article base. I will happily stand corrected, though, if I misunderstand him.
 
Why, when we have BibleGateway, which has a vast list of translations available and is very link-friendly (unfurls nicely and everything)?
But you do realize that you are basically shooting at yourself by doing this? You are not able to create your own content but rely on some other site's content so you can make a use of it. You also direct the traffic to them by doing this, making them more valuable and yours less. Like why should I stay on your site when I can get what I want on theirs?
In any case it proves my point that a Wiki would have worked on your site since you are using it (just by going to a 3rd party but my point stands).

That's going to be a helluva dev project if you're wanting things like automatic keyword linking.
Do you think Siropu has 20 men working for him?

Wiki forums (or whatever the feature was called) would be another feature that would just languish, most likely.
Yes, it would be, like RM/MG if it is its own different thing outside of threads. This is a key problem, I am not advocating for something outside of the thread system. No, that would not be used, it must be inside the thread environment to work.

I thought a wiki is an article that is open to editing by various different people. I may be wrong but that sounds like a recipe for disaster and conflict.
For what do we have permissions? If you have the right permissions and system to revert back, it is like managing threads. For example if something gets added, throw it to the approval queue and done. Permissions regulate the rest. And in cases of problems, we can revert back the threads just like you can do it now with your normal threads since the history is saved.

I see people quote Wikipedia as if it’s an authority but basically it is whoever shouts the loudest (who are often just wannabes) so the real experts just throw their hands in the air and get on with being professional.
Exactly, no, you are right. Hence why you don't want to rely on Wikipedia but create your own environment where you have the control. Where your site harvests expertise knowledge one can't even find on Wikipedia. This makes your site distinguished and people with expertise move to your site. I can safely say it because it works on my site like this.

A wiki without templates and variables is completely useless to me for example.
Care to explain like what specifically? Like what templating do you need or what variables?


I don't think @sbj is talking about inserting existing Wiki software into Xenforo but creating a Wiki-like capability for creating a shared article base. I will happily stand corrected, though, if I misunderstand him.
I think he is confused. You understood it well, yeah.
 
I don't think @sbj is talking about inserting existing Wiki software into Xenforo but creating a Wiki-like capability for creating a shared article base. I will happily stand corrected, though, if I misunderstand him.
Wikipedia is like putting a trojen into the xenforo software.
It would stuff it up because it's too easy to hack
 
People have used microsoft word to create a website before. It works but there are way better language based software programs out there.
You need to learn the html language to help you with it.
Guys like @Chris D know what they're doing and i think you all should wait and see what he and his crew do.
 
Wikipedia is like putting a trojen into the xenforo software.
It would stuff it up because it's too easy to hack
I think you are misunderstanding here.

When we talk about "Wiki", we are not saying XenForo should put the Wikipedia script into its core. We are talking about Wikipedia-like features.

People were asking like what kind of improvements/features we would like to see and I threw as an example that we should have Wiki features. So we can create a database of knowledge.

Imagine like this, if I said we need a subscribe button, I don't mean them to download the YouTube script and use that. It means to create similar features based on the XF architecture of course.
 
But you do realize that you are basically shooting at yourself by doing this? You are not able to create your own content but rely on some other site's content so you can make a use of it. You also direct the traffic to them by doing this, making them more valuable and yours less. Like why should I stay on your site when I can get what I want on theirs?
In any case it proves my point that a Wiki would have worked on your site since you are using it (just by going to a 3rd party but my point stands).
I am not going to build my own Bible, especially since people are not even going to agree on which translation to use (hint: there's dozens and all have their problems and critics). Resources like BibleGateway exist so that people don't have to put in that effort.

Footnote: Oh, and some are in copyright, which BibleGateway has already taken care of. I have maybe one member who could actually do their own original translations from Hebrew and Greek so using existing translations is a must.

Yes, it would be, like RM/MG if it is its own different thing outside of threads. This is a key problem, I am not advocating for something outside of the thread system. No, that would not be used, it must be inside the thread environment to work.
Integrated to the point where it can't be detached? Or would it be something that could be turned on or controlled with permissions like we can question threads or article threads?

Do you think Siropu has 20 men working for him?
Has he built a wiki add-on with automatic keyword linking like you're expecting?
 
Actually, just giving this Wiki idea more thought, it would probably require a wholesale overhaul, so probably a 3.0 thing rather than a 2.x update.
 
Wiki does not fit into a code base software.
FYI wikipedia can be edited by everyone on the planet which is not great at all. It's not secure enough to use.
Php is a coded language it's what xenforo use.
vBulletin uses both visual basic and php software.
None of those would put an insecure widely edited based software in it because it won't work.
Learn some coding by returning to uni and doing programming.
Wikipedia is ran using MediaWiki which is built with.... none other than PHP!
I think one should know what they are speaking about before trying to push misconceptions as facts, let alone telling someone else to go back to school to learn more on the subject.
 
Wikipedia is ran using MediaWiki which is built with.... none other than PHP!
I think one should know what they are speaking about before trying to push misconceptions as facts, let alone telling someone else to go back to school to learn more on the subject.
But vBulletin was written in visual basic!
 
I am not going to build my own Bible, especially since people are not even going to agree on which translation to use (hint: there's dozens and all have their problems and critics). Resources like BibleGateway exist so that people don't have to put in that effort.
Imagine your Wiki offered all translations. That's the reason to have it. To offer content in one place other sites can't offer. This is how you grow your site. Give me a reason to regularly visit your site.

And what would you do if BibleGateway didn't exist? Also 99.9% of all other forum niches don't have a BibleGateway. So what should they do? Yes, build their own database. I think since our sites are text-based, we should focus on that. Wiki is just an example, if you find better working options, be my guest, let us have that instead. Just, if you want to grow your site, you need to channel traffic into your site. How you do that? Google rankings and search results. For that you need content. But lately Google doesn't list your chit chat threads as good results anymore. All you find are articles and wikis and results from reddit/stack exchange.


Integrated to the point where it can't be detached? Or would it be something that could be turned on or controlled with permissions like we can question threads or article threads?
Anything I propose or anyone else proposes should always be optional like "turn on/off" way of doing it. Forcing is never good, so it would be controlled with permissions and settings to have it on or not, just like question threads.

Has he built a wiki add-on with automatic keyword linking like you're expecting?
No, but you were exaggerating like it is a huge task to have keywords and I showed an example of how 1 man does it in his free time (his addon is excellent, can't recommend it enough, but that's not the point).


Some of @Bob's add-ons do have collaborative (wiki) features. Co-owners and contributors per item and per category with a self-join functionality as well. If you are interested in this you should send him a message.
I know, we are lucky to have his addons and guess what I am using :). But what should we do when Bob leaves? I don't want to imagine the day when he retires or something. Also this is besides my point, there are already 4 very light Wiki-like addons I know of (Ozzy, JulianD, Jaxel, Bob's addons) and 1 real attempt (VaultWiki) and 1 bridge (ThemeHouse). There could be 50 more for all I care. The question is not if there are addons or not, the question is what we would like to see in XF in core. But thanks though, you meant it nicely of course :).
 
Some of @Bob's add-ons do have collaborative (wiki) features. Co-owners and contributors per item and per category with a self-join functionality as well. If you are interested in this you should send him a message.
Yep, most definitely does...

Screen Shot 2023-02-28 at 3.45.53 PM.webp
 
I know, we are lucky to have his addons and guess what I am using :). But what should we do when Bob leaves? I don't want to imagine the day when he retires or something. Also this is besides my point, there are already 4 very light Wiki-like addons I know of (Ozzy, JulianD, Jaxel, Bob's addons) and 1 real attempt (VaultWiki) and 1 bridge (ThemeHouse). There could be 50 more for all I care. The question is not if there are addons or not, the question is what we would like to see in XF in core. But thanks though, you meant it nicely of course :).
Yeah the closest we have seen is the Teams addition to XFRM. Would also like to see something but also would like to see the Teams functionality expanded, at least to the category level.
 
Whereas for me, continuing to provide a stable, solid platform for a site remains paramount. New features are a bonus at this point and they need to be done so as not to affect the stability of the platform.

If you are not innovating, you are falling behind. New customers won't come and current customers will leave. Stability and innovation when it comes to any software are not mutually exclusive, they are minimum requirements. Maintaining a stable product with no innovation is not a good indication of a promising future for any piece of software.
 
Imagine your Wiki offered all translations. That's the reason to have it. To offer content in one place other sites can't offer. This is how you grow your site. Give me a reason to regularly visit your site.

And what would you do if BibleGateway didn't exist? Also 99.9% of all other forum niches don't have a BibleGateway. So what should they do? Yes, build their own database. I think since our sites are text-based, we should focus on that. Wiki is just an example, if you find better working options, be my guest, let us have that instead. Just, if you want to grow your site, you need to channel traffic into your site. How you do that? Google rankings and search results. For that you need content. But lately Google doesn't list your chit chat threads as good results anymore. All you find are articles and wikis and results from reddit/stack exchange.



Anything I propose or anyone else proposes should always be optional like "turn on/off" way of doing it. Forcing is never good, so it would be controlled with permissions and settings to have it on or not, just like question threads.


No, but you were exaggerating like it is a huge task to have keywords and I showed an example of how 1 man does it in his free time (his addon is excellent, can't recommend it enough, but that's not the point).



I know, we are lucky to have his addons and guess what I am using :). But what should we do when Bob leaves? I don't want to imagine the day when he retires or something. Also this is besides my point, there are already 4 very light Wiki-like addons I know of (Ozzy, JulianD, Jaxel, Bob's addons) and 1 real attempt (VaultWiki) and 1 bridge (ThemeHouse). There could be 50 more for all I care. The question is not if there are addons or not, the question is what we would like to see in XF in core. But thanks though, you meant it nicely of course :).
So you're telling me that if i were to edit your stuff you'd be ok with it?
Frustrated George Costanza GIF
 
I think you are misunderstanding here.

When we talk about "Wiki", we are not saying XenForo should put the Wikipedia script into its core. We are talking about Wikipedia-like features.

People were asking like what kind of improvements/features we would like to see and I threw as an example that we should have Wiki features. So we can create a database of knowledge.

Imagine like this, if I said we need a subscribe button, I don't mean them to download the YouTube script and use that. It means to create similar features based on the XF architecture of course.
Frustrated George Costanza GIF
 
The feed needs to have a clean card design with infinite scroll.
I agree and I'm sure the majority of today's social media users would agree but I suspect the majority of forum owners posting here would tell you infinite scrolling is the devil's child.

It's very noticeable that a lot of the functionality being requested here doesn't really mesh with what the average social media user is actually using which is pretty basic.

I think there's still a rather large rift between the desktop owning providers and the mobile owning consumer. I'd like to think 2.3 will attempt to address that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom