XF 2.3 ?

[sbj]

I have zero interest in being on an XF hub.

I mean not that it would get implemented ever, but the idea was if it was there, it would be an "opt-in" thing. So no forum would be forced to participate in it, only if you opted in. So, in this hypothetical world, you would be free to ignore it.

 

[Forsaken]

And miss this useful thread? I ignore no one.

That being said I really need to get back to work so I should probably ignore these notifications for a while.

I dislike arguments that end up just being cyclical, or just generally pointless. The sad irony is... The original subject is about the eventual release of 2.3, which has been said to be delayed... But now has turned into XF falling behind on features (but no competitor is very much ahead right now, at least not on self-hosted)...?

When I would have to spend an hour or two editing down a reply to not get me in trouble, just not worth the effort . Either people have some very dumb expectations on what they would get from a software developer for the amount they pay, or they do not understand the basics enough to understand why what they propose is not possible with software that has to work on a wide variety of hosting setups. Or the people who are just children having tantrums because they cannot have a little patience.

A lot of doom and gloom that XF is going to fall behind and go under... When they are likely more profitable in half a year than they would have been in almost any individual year solely due to cloud. And then people saying, "you don't see old faces anymore!!!"... When they likely do not even know the people, they are talking about, and as someone who stays in touch with a lot of them it had more to do with the people in the admin community or just losing passion for forums in general .

I have better ways to waste my time, and most of them actually do something for my community! Imagine focusing on something productive, right?

 

[cdub]

I dislike arguments that end up just being cyclical, or just generally pointless.

Yes this thread has gotten off the rails. Should we get it back on track and take bets on when the first HYS will be?

I'm thinking March.

 

[sbj]

When I would have to spend an hour or two editing down a reply to not get me in trouble, just not worth the effort . Either people have some very dumb expectations on what they would get from a software developer for the amount they pay, or they do not understand the basics enough to understand why what they propose is not possible with software that has to work on a wide variety of hosting setups. Or the people who are just children having tantrums because they cannot have a little patience.

You are throwing everyone under the bus right now. Am I also one of those ones with dumb expectations?
So are we gatekeeping expectations now?
Should we ask you for permission?
I don't understand this hypocrisy. Let me show you:

You were complaining that people are vague and are not telling what they want or expect.
I exactly did what you said. I quote:

it is YOUR job to understand and communicate your needs and wants for your community.

and I did express it and now they are dumb expectations or what? Was that directed at me?

So, damned if you do and damned if you don't. I just hope that I misunderstood you and it was not directed at me.

 

[Kevin]

Why did I ever clear out my ignore list .

The entertainment value is worth it some days.

 

[Paul B]

Should we get it back on track and take bets on when the first HYS will be?

I'm thinking March.

2023 or 2024?














Or 2025?

 

[cdub]

 

[Jay™]

Don't matter to me, XF is working just fine.
However, this thread has been entertaining.

 

[Mendalla]

Or 2025?

Works for me. I'm planning to retire that spring so I'll have more time to do the upgrade and tinker with new features.

 

[Forsaken]

You are throwing everyone under the bus right now. Am I also one of those ones with dumb expectations?
So are we gatekeeping expectations now?
Should we ask you for permission?
I don't understand this hypocrisy. Let me show you:

View attachment 281869

You were complaining that people are vague and are not telling what they want or expect.
I exactly did what you said. I quote:

and I did express it and now they are dumb expectations or what? Was that directed at me?

So, damned if you do and damned if you don't. I just hope that I misunderstood you and it was not directed at me.

I'm throwing you and Faust under the bus, not everyone , and it is for different reasons.

Specifically, some of your expectations are unrealistic due to the limitations of having to meet the needs of a lot of different customers and a lot of different hosting setups. Either it is not logical to invest the manpower into things that only a small fraction of users will use (specific content implementations), would require SSH access or an external service (image optimization) or you made such a broad statement that does not apply to everyone (first party wiki system).

I'll rephrase from dumb to unrealistic expectations. I agree with some of your points, but you expect much more than would be possible for any team, much less XenForo for self-hosted installations.

As far as Faust goes, my argument was specifically that every admin needs to know their own community and needs to know their own needs. XenForo can only try to meet those, stay on trend, and make technological advancements as they can. There is no time that a forum platform will be above the curve for development and there will always be a need to play catch up with social media platforms.

At the same time, the goal should not be to compete with social media, but to focus on the content strategy and community you have built to maintain and increase its relevancy. Offering better tools and management are part of what gives XenForo its strength, so it makes sense to continue to invest the time in those features.

You separated people into "people who are happy with XF" and "people who want innovation" groups, but every person who has purchased XenForo wants innovation. The only difference between me and you are that I am willing to wait, and that I am being understanding of delays. Rather than getting upset and spreading doom and gloom, I am more than willing to wait because I understand that the success of my site does not depend on XF, but on how I run and invest into my site. Anything XF adds is just a bonus to my plans, and I will incorporate new features if it makes sense, otherwise I will invest separately as I have always done.

If XF no longer met my needs, or I was unhappy with the platform I would just invest in a different platform and migrate. There have been times I have considered it, though less due to development and more due to the people in this community .

 

[sbj]

I'm throwing you and Faust under the bus, not everyone , and it is for different reasons.

Why the hostility? I don't think I ever even had en exchange with you. Actually I like usually what you are saying but I don't think I deserve the passive aggressive tone of yours. Who are you trying to scare here? What different reasons? What am I missing here? Can you show me one disrespectful tone or words towards you by me? And yet here I am listening to you how you are throwing me under the bus here. What are you smoking?

Specifically, some of your expectations are unrealistic due to the limitations of having to meet the needs of a lot of different customers and a lot of different hosting setups. Either it is not logical to invest the manpower into things that only a small fraction of users will use (specific content implementations), would require SSH access or an external service (image optimization) or you made such a broad statement that does not apply to everyone (first party wiki system).

You are talking like you know what you are talking but you are wrong. Yes, I am aware that there are different hosting setups. So what?

Did that stop them raising the PHP limit to 7.0? Cause some sites still have to run PHP 5.x because they have other stuff going on. No.
Did that stop them releasing ElasticSearch addon where you need ElasticSearch installed when most of shared hosting setups won't be able to use it? No.
Here, I read it 5 minutes ago: https://xenforo.com/community/threads/migration-problem.212492/#post-1615403 You see, to convert to utf8mb4 you need SSH access. Did that stop them doing that this way? No. (there are a lot of other cases where one needs SSH access, this is just a random example)

Should I keep going?

As you can clearly see that nothing about optimizing images is unrealistic because of server needs. They already force a lot of things in a lot of cases, this would be one more thing IF you want to use it. And who says one has to run it? It is like enabling other PHP extensions so one can use imagick for example. If you don't have it, you can't use it, it would be the same way. It is not rocket science, it is as basic as it gets.

I am not sure what small fraction this would be? Who would not want optimized images on their board which saves them 30-70% disk space? And making the pages load faster by that way? And making the bandwidth used much less (important for mobile phones)? What am I missing here? If I offered you that your site can be faster, would you say no? And that you can save disk space without losing quality? Who would say no to that?

Wiki system is a bit tricky. It needs to be done right otherwise it can become a "niche" thing. It does apply to any board, to any niche. The question is if those boards would want to make a use of it since it requires you to invest time and effort. But that is like asking if one wants content or not. Content does not fall from trees, someone needs to put the effort. And a Wiki would be an organized way of doing so. So if you are saying "nah, don't want to create a Wiki" is like saying "nah, don't want to create content". I don't think I have to tell you that Wikipedia is one of the most used websites on earth, right? But this debate is problematic and not easy to convince people because one needs to see it first. Sure, you can disagree with me but unrealistic? I am not inventing the wheel here, I am proposing stuff which has worked obviously.

I'll rephrase from dumb to unrealistic expectations. I agree with some of your points, but you expect much more than would be possible for any team, much less XenForo for self-hosted installations.

With all respect, how? How do I expect much?
Does Nobita have 15 men working behind him? https://xenforo.com/community/resources/image-optimizer-for-xf-2-0.6030/

How can a developer offer this in his free time but not a full team of XF devs?

How did ThemeHouse offer theirs?: https://xenforo.com/community/threads/th-image-optimizer-deleted.135602/

The support should be on the low side, too. Once installed, it just runs automatically. Most support queries would be about getting it worked cause of needing to install some php extensions and the script itself. But that can be forwarded to the hosting companies.

Look, I am not obsessed with image optimizers, but people are asking what we want to see and I think this example is a reasonable one. It applies to everyone, it saves everyone money and disk space, it helps SEO, so again. What point of it is unrealistic?

At the same time, the goal should not be to compete with social media, but to focus on the content strategy and community you have built to maintain and increase its relevancy. Offering better tools and management are part of what gives XenForo its strength, so it makes sense to continue to invest the time in those features.

Yes, I agree. Can you be specific about "better tools"? Let's see your take since I do have unrealistic and dumb expectations. What tools do you think we need as improvements?

 

[Suzanne O]

@Forsaken no need to throw everyone under the bus mate.
Just be patient and wait.
It's great to try other forum software just for temporary ideas.
I do this all the time.
Whilst i wait i have set up a url with vBulletin software on it. So i can get used to what xenforo may end up doing.
I also set up other temporary forums just in case xenforo go that way too.
Truth is I don't know how XF is going to end up looking like. It could be like vB or SMF.
Or it could be like old school XF.
Whichever way xenforo goes lets get used to it early.

 

[Forsaken]

Why the hostility? I don't think I ever even had en exchange with you. Actually I like usually what you are saying but I don't think I deserve the passive aggressive tone of yours. Who are you trying to scare here? What different reasons? What am I missing here? Can you show me one disrespectful tone or words towards you by me? And yet here I am listening to you how you are throwing me under the bus here. What are you smoking?

You are talking like you know what you are talking but you are wrong. Yes, I am aware that there are different hosting setups. So what?

Did that stop them raising the PHP limit to 7.0? Cause some sites still have to run PHP 5.x because they have other stuff going on. No.
Did that stop them releasing ElasticSearch addon where you need ElasticSearch installed when most of shared hosting setups won't be able to use it? No.
Here, I read it 5 minutes ago: https://xenforo.com/community/threads/migration-problem.212492/#post-1615403 You see, to convert to utf8mb4 you need SSH access. Did that stop them doing that this way? No. (there are a lot of other cases where one needs SSH access, this is just a random example)

Should I keep going?

As you can clearly see that nothing about optimizing images is unrealistic because of server needs. They already force a lot of things in a lot of cases, this would be one more thing IF you want to use it. And who says one has to run it? It is like enabling other PHP extensions so one can use imagick for example. If you don't have it, you can't use it, it would be the same way. It is not rocket science, it is as basic as it gets.

I am not sure what small fraction this would be? Who would not want optimized images on their board which saves them 30-70% disk space? And making the pages load faster by that way? And making the bandwidth used much less (important for mobile phones)? What am I missing here? If I offered you that your site can be faster, would you say no? And that you can save disk space without losing quality? Who would say no to that?

Wiki system is a bit tricky. It needs to be done right otherwise it can become a "niche" thing. It does apply to any board, to any niche. The question is if those boards would want to make a use of it since it requires you to invest time and effort. But that is like asking if one wants content or not. Content does not fall from trees, someone needs to put the effort. And a Wiki would be an organized way of doing so. So if you are saying "nah, don't want to create a Wiki" is like saying "nah, don't want to create content". I don't think I have to tell you that Wikipedia is one of the most used websites on earth, right? But this debate is problematic and not easy to convince people because one needs to see it first. Sure, you can disagree with me but unrealistic? I am not inventing the wheel here, I am proposing stuff which has worked obviously.

With all respect, how? How do I expect much?
Does Nobita have 15 men working behind him? https://xenforo.com/community/resources/image-optimizer-for-xf-2-0.6030/

How can a developer offer this in his free time but not a full team of XF devs?

How did ThemeHouse offer theirs?: https://xenforo.com/community/threads/th-image-optimizer-deleted.135602/

The support should be on the low side, too. Once installed, it just runs automatically. Most support queries would be about getting it worked cause of needing to install some php extensions and the script itself. But that can be forwarded to the hosting companies.

Look, I am not obsessed with image optimizers, but people are asking what we want to see and I think this example is a reasonable one. It applies to everyone, it saves everyone money and disk space, it helps SEO, so again. What point of it is unrealistic?

Yes, I agree. Can you be specific about "better tools"? Let's see your take since I do have unrealistic and dumb expectations. What tools do you think we need as improvements?

I was aggressive, not passive aggressive .

Most control panels offer composer command line without offering SSH; some panels also offer limited SSH. If neither are offered, most hosts will run the command for you within reason. Hosts will not install a server-level service for one user.

Going to ignore most of what you wrote because it's pointless to respond.

PHP requirements are raised because the majority are using higher versions of PHP. Every software will raise the minimum requirement for PHP or other dependencies to remove having to support EOL software. Yes, some people will still use those versions, but they are usually the minority.

Elastic Search is a separate add-on, and is only meant for VPS and dedicated servers, or you can use an externally hosted install...? There is a large population of big boards, and it's an obvious thing to offer for most platforms . Not sure how you think this supports your point.

As far as a wiki... I said a first party wiki . I do not think XenForo should make one because it is a huge undertaking by itself, and it doesn't make sense for the majority of sites. Could any site use a wiki? Maybe a majority. Does every site need a wiki? No. Even then there is a wiki, or what I preferably need which is a customizable database system (similar to Pages, but better), which I have actively contacted developers over. What I want would not work for the majority of people, so it is unrealistic for me to expect it to come from XenForo. Get my point now?

Nobitas requires the installation of dependencies that require SSH; most hosts will not allow that.

ThemeHouse's add-on uses external services, which either have limitations on the number of images or require a payment (Kraken). XenForo could offer a similar implementation, but either rely on external services (which either cost money or are bad) or run their own service (which would cost money). It is the same as Nobita's, but you use a service, and not a local installation.

As far as imagick... Many shared hosts will not install it due to security concerns .

Not sure what you're wanting from my statement defending XenForo adding better tools...? I do not specifically need any more, or if I do I pay for them myself and make a suggestion, like I do with all things for my community.

 

[TPerry]

That being said I really need to get back to work so I should probably ignore these notifications for a while.

Even hobbies can involve excess work! This is the first time I've been on since this morning.
Just got an Orange PI LTS in. Nice that it comes installed with Android by default on the built in 8GB RAM... but I need REAL Linux.
Spent most of the day using BalenaEtcher to burn Debian SEVERAL times on the SD card and worked great... until you set up the VNC server. Then would no longer let you log in. Ended up putting Ubuntu Jammy on it and it's working like a charm now and busy installing the astronomy crap to it. What I liked about the OrangePi was the price compared to the Raspberry Pi. But after spending as much time as I've devoted it would have been economically cheaper to get a comparable RPi. The only good thing... now I got the basis for another article for the site.

 

[TPerry]

2023 or 2024?














Or 2025?

Zager and Evans already has prognosticated the year... it's "in the year 2525".
And with that I leave you with your ear worm for the week.

 

[eL_]

/me dropping the B00MB!
Ask ChatGPT "when version of 2.3 of Xenforo will be released"!

Now, I wonder how many of you did that! Hahahahaha

 

[Miri]

2023 or 2024?














Or 2025?

But hey, let's not get our users too excited just yet, we wouldn't want anyone fainting from anticipation. Maybe we should aim for 2030, just to keep things interesting. After all, good things come to those who wait, right?

 

[Faust]

@Forsaken no need to throw everyone under the bus mate.
Just be patient and wait.
It's great to try other forum software just for temporary ideas.
I do this all the time.
Whilst i wait i have set up a url with vBulletin software on it. So i can get used to what xenforo may end up doing.
I also set up other temporary forums just in case xenforo go that way too.
Truth is I don't know how XF is going to end up looking like. It could be like vB or SMF.
Or it could be like old school XF.
Whichever way xenforo goes lets get used to it early.

I would agree with you. We don’t know how XenForo will end up. While waiting for an other couple of years for 2.3 ,

it’s good to try something new. Grass sometimes can be greener on an other side.


Sorry mate, I don’t get any notifications from you, you won the jackpot long time ago to be on my blacklist @Forsaken . Not even bother to read your useless posts. And I won’t get down to your level.

 

[Nicolas FR]

 

[nodle]