XenForo vs. IPB/IPS What's your honest opinion?

[Tigratrus]

I'll preface this by saying that Susan and I have been actively evaluating new platforms for about a year. We've been developing/extending our community solution (currently vB 3.8 + WP/Joomla! and PHPMyDirectory) for about 5-6 years. Our community is how we make a living. It pays our mortgage and all our bills, so it's both a business AND a labor of love.

I've tried very hard to give an honest comparison of the two systems based on our experience. Susan and I would very much appreciate hearing what others think from *their* experience and perspective.

Obviously vB 4 is not even vaguely in the running. This isn't an emotional decision it's based on hard cold facts about the platform, it's resource consumption, it's likely future, and how freaking impossible it is to work with if you want to modify/extend it.

Our take, based on working with both systems for about a month, popping for a "Hosted Community" with the full IPS Suite loaded on it (if you get the "Plus 40" for $29.99/month and pay $5/month more you can get the entire package including IP.Content and IP.Nexus) is:

IPS:

Benefits of IPS:

1. IPS is a very mature system with a LOT of capability. The development pace is rapid, and they have come a long way from a year or two ago. The have importers, and seem to provide excellent service on tickets, the forum based help is spotty, but as long as tickets work that's fine with me.
2. IP.Nexus is a real gem, seriously impressive what you can do with an integrated ecommerce solution, next version has ala cart ad sales, even the ability to use as the front end for hosting reselling. Awesome stuff.
3. The mobile skin and built in iphone app are definite benefits.
4. The IP.Content article system being able to promote from forum topic to an article and fully integrate the comments and topic replies is a major plus.
5. They have a great search system that is fully integrated across the whole system (except for only searching a single IP.Content database at a time) as well as excellent support for Sphinx.
6. Their gallery is getting a major upgrade, though it lacks meaningful integration with the rest of the system. It's very nice, and works well with the mobile skin/app.

Downsides to IPS:

1. The 3rd part dev community is very VERY thin. The core products change so frequently, and break skins/mods with incredible rapidity. The end of last year IPS was releasing a major upgrade to one of their apps EVERY WEEK! That has driven a tremendous # of the Mod and skin developers away from the IPS platform simply because they can't afford to be updating everything they do so often. There are currently a LOT more mods for XF already built, than there are 3rd party mods that work with the current version of IPS.
2. The IPS platform (while it makes vB 4 look like stone tablets and chisels) is somewhat dated, and despite all it's technical capability, feels clunky to me personally. There are a lot of inconsistencies between apps, and the CSS is really hard to work with.
3. The promise of IP.Content is largely unfulfilled as it's very awkward to deal with. The documentation is quite lacking, and it's flat out hard to work with.

In short: If you like the stock IPS system out of the box you will probably love IPS and it's what you should go with, it's a great product. But if you want to extend it in any significant ways to meet your communities specific needs, you are likely to be fighting an uphill battle and a rough time finding someone to help you with the development, and a rougher time maintaining your customizations. Same for styling, if you don't like the stock skin or a fairly simple variation based on the stock skin, you CAN find some custom skin devs, but they are expensive and maintenance will be a major problem with every app release requiring significant work to maintain the skin multiple times a year. IPS has some very technically capable solutions. IMO They need a better UI designer (little inconsistencies like things not being exactly aligned and the CSS being hard to work with).

XF:

Benefits of XF:

1. XF is FUN. Seems shallow, but using XenForo is a very engaging experience. The #1 goal for a forum (IMO) is to reward people for their efforts. They need to feel appreciated by their peers, they need a sense of affirmation. XF does that better than any system out there, hands down. In my opinion, this is a crucial thing, hard to achieve and absolutely priceless for a community builder.
2. The community. The XF 3rd party dev community is bursting with energy and people getting mods built. XF is built from the ground up to be modification and styling friendly, that that's a benefit that will draw the modification community in droves..
3. As XF has been built from the ground up with a fully modern design with a single, well architected CSS styling plan in place, it's very easy to customize the look/feel of the forum. The ability to put virtually ALL your styling changes in a single extra.css file means that XF upgrades have very VERY little impact on custom styles.
4. Once you get below the surface of the ACP and look at the templating system, you quickly find just HOW powerful the system is. It's designed so that you can take any part of the system and extend it (both templates AND code) without modifying (hacking) the original. Again, that will make it a lot easier for mod developers to maintain their mods ad XF upgrades.
5. XF is built as a platform like IPS. Kier and Mike have said from the beginning that they will will building a CMS, Gallery etc. Based on the best of breed nature of the Forum component, I have a high confidence level that those components will also be innovative and best of class. Looking at how fast their development cycle is, and how fast they built the whole platform AND the Forum component on top of that platform, I'm willing to bet that other parts of the platform will be available much faster than many people think.
6. The SEO is superb out of the box, the fully semantic markup is the best we've seen.

Downsides to XF:

1. It's new. As it's not *quite* gold release (though I feel sure that it will be very shortly), a lot of Devs are waiting until they have final code in their hands before putting out their mods.
2. There is a degree on uncertainty regarding the future of XF based on the legal disputes with IB. Personally, after reading the pertinent documents, I think IB is clearly gaming the legal system in an attempt to bleed XF dry before they really get rolling. I think they will fail, but it's a legitimate concern that must be considered as a person who has a BUSINESS building and running a community (as you and Susan and myself do).
3. XF as a platform is nowhere *near* as comprehensive in functionality as IPS, nor do they have the corporate resources that Invision Power Systems has.
4. Migrating a complex community to XF is currently going to be a somewhat complex, phased process. To start the process requires a level of faith in the platform and it's future development that many will be uncomfortable with.

Conclusion:

After working with our IPS installation for a couple weeks, getting a feel for what's involved in making it what we want for our community, we came back to take another good hard look at XF. Honestly, I wish it was an easier decision, IPS is a GOOD system, with a ton of capability (esp IP.Nexus if you are selling ads and or any memberships or tangible/digital goods).

In two days we made more progress in XF than we had in 1-2 weeks in IPS. If *we* can do things that much faster, a real developer will be able to give us *far* more bang for our buck, IMO.

At the end of the evaluation we asked ourselves 2 questions:

1. Would you regret going with the other platform later?
   1. If we went with IPS: Yes. We'd always wonder how much better the community would have grown on XF.
   2. If we went with XF: We'd miss the capability of IP.Nexus most. But we built more with XF pages in 1 day than we did with IP.Content in a week.
2. Which do you think will encourage community participation more?
   1. XF. Hands down. IPS relies too much on blocks to "integrate" things. Likes/Alerts system >> Rep.

As a final reality check we chatted with a developer that's a good friend of ours that both runs his own vB forum and is looking to move. He said that he's looking at XF, and is very excited by the platform. He's never looked at IPS though so that's not a comparison, just an opinion on the XF side.


What it comes down to is both are good systems. VERY good systems. Both make vB 4 look like stone tablets and chisels. But we've been doing this for 5-6 years now, and we've learned that a modern system, built right from the start is a better fit for us. We never... NEVER seem to be able to use an out of the box system, we always push the envelope. For us, that makes IPS less of a good fit than XF.

What about others looking at the same choice? What have you found?

 

[Shelley]

Is this thread still be hammered out? if it helps, i'm looking to do a direct swap of an IPB license with some months left for a xenforo license *looks at topic title and it seems related a little* you see, i want to start another forum (have the style nearly done) that will ultimately be doomed because i get bored and distracted easily. *sprinkles a litre of motivation to kickstart all of this*

Seriously though, i do have an ipb license I want to kick into looking good aka swap. I made my 600% killing on it by doing the custom job that prompt me to purchase it.

</pushes luck>

 

[whitetigergrowl]

I agree with most of that Whitetigergrowl (hello btw! )

I can't agree with the Xen moving to 3rd though position however, no matter the lack of activity here by the devs they have still not come anywhere near the cynical and deliberate screwing over their user base the way vB have in terms of pricing models.

For that reason alone they could never be 3rd to any thinking person.

For me Xen is and will remain #1 as it is just so nice to use, from an end user perspective and from an admin perspective.... I own IPB, and vB licenses also, but nothing comes close for me.

Hey there Kim! Hope things are going well for ya.

The primary reason for me it's getting dangerously close to going into 3rd is because of the lack of forward movement on the forum software and it's very questionable future at the moment. As well as the complete and utter lack of communication from those higher up in general (not just about the court case). It shows they've been on recently...yet...nothing is being said or done to quell the uneasiness many are starting to feel here and elsewhere. It's almost like they don't care if they lose people. And honestly for some people that's all it would take to stay longer and renew their licenses or buy new ones. Communication. We don't need to know all the workings of the court case or if any of the rumors are true. All we need to know right now is that we aren't spending money on a dead software that only the mod community is even doing much for.

I've visited many a forum where people are asking if Xenforo is dead recently. Not just because of rumors but also because of the lack of communication coming from the top and halted development. It's been obvious for quite some time that development has stopped on Xenforo. At least to any known significant degree.

I agree about VB. It's gotten pretty bad. But what's worse is at least they are still showing development and progress even though their parent company is going through litigation too with Xenforo. Do they have more money to throw around? Certainly. But you also can't make more money by doing nothing either and be able to lose goodwill with your clients either.Vbulletin is a big enough company, they can afford to lose some clients. Xenforo can't afford to however.

Those that don't need people to program or make mods for them will find use for Xenforo, like most any forum software, because its not as fully featured as most others right now. But those that rely on Xenforos growth and don't have a lot of money to spend on mods and such being made for them may start to feel the pinch and consider going elsewhere where there is development and communication. As much as I hate to say it, even VB has shown better communication than Xenforo as of the past 6 months especially.

I'm waiting on the sidelines to see what happens. But if this does go to trial and another year or 2 of development is halted because of it....zero doubt...Xenforo will be in serious trouble as other forum software fly right on past it and they lose customers because of it.

But it does make me wonder why development has seemingly halted for Xenforo....yet continued for VB. It's hard to make money and get clients on something that's sitting idle. No matter how good it is at the moment. And there could be baby steps to help keep customer confidence and keep growing.

I agree VB's pricing models are jacked. BUT at least there is forward movement there. I hate VB 5. VB 4 got better towards the end but was still a train wreck of sorts. But I look at more than pricing models. Because people will still pay them if they feel its the better option for them.

The reason there is so much misinformation, rumors, speculation, and confusion about Xenforo at the moment here and elsewhere isn't just because of the lawsuit. It's because those developing Xenforo visit the forum even recently, yet say nothing about it. There is no sense of damage control other than to lock threads or ignore or delete posts. Willing to lose potential customers and even existing customers without trying to quell their legit concerns. The mods can only say and do so much.

This is why it's dangerously close to moving into 3rd for me. It's not the same community or revolutionary product it was 2 years ago when it launched. Communication from the top has been pretty much non-existent even though they frequent the forum. Lack of forward movement or development of the software. And of course the general fear and anxiety of what the outcome of the lawsuit will be.

As much as some may hate IPB, at least you know its in active development and has a robust forum software. Which gets even more interesting with IPB 4. I also believe their pricing model is fair for what you get.

Some may hate VB. And yes IMO it's declined in popularity and quality since the days of VB3 and since IB took over. But it still has influence and a robust forum software as well. VB 5 will eventually get its CMS and maybe become something more than what it is now. But again its showing active development. Pricing sucks. But it still is considered to be a major player and VB 5 will likely improve over time.

Xenforo is the wild card. It all depends not just on the outcome of the lawsuit, but also Xenforos ability to start catching up. And if it can keep its 'wow' factor and regain some of the community its lost or is at risk of losing.

I still rated Xenforo higher than VB. But the longer this whole silent treatment drags on by Xenforo, and the longer development is halted with no improvements, new additions, etc., and the longer this all happens because of the lawsuit, the more likely VB will move up into 2nd place for me. Love them or hate them, at least you know some of what you are getting.

 

[Slavik]

But it does make me wonder why development has seemingly halted for Xenforo....yet continued for VB.

A company who has a private equity firm worth 16 BILLION behind them and 20+(?) members of staff

vs

A new start up company made of 3 guys trying to earn a living having their earnings sucked up into a fraudulent lawsuit designed to do exactly this.


Your telling me you can't understand why one company can carry on coding like nothing is happening while the other can't?

 

[Kim]

Hey there Kim! Hope things are going well for ya.

Snip

Things are going fine thanks Moved out of doing themes mostly.

I will ignore the argument that vB has kept on developing, why can't XF, as frankly no matter what they may have done in that time, their product is still woefully behind any other, and you could put another 20 code monkeys on it, it still would be. Always been more of a quality over quantity type of person myself

I know a lot of people are frustrated with the silence here at XF, and I for one cannot give you a reason for it, nor deny that for many it is an issue.

But honestly for me, it is not an issue, I would rather have the silent treatment than have dishonest BS, or marketing hype shoved down my throat all the time

I also couldn't give a flying funk what others are saying about XF on the gossip sites lol, I love using the product, from both sides of the equation. For me it is lacking very little that I would actually need, it is a wonderful product RIGHT NOW and is still light years ahead of it's competition in terms of the user experience. I have people coming from other systems every day who are used to the old clunkers, and suddenly these people who have barely been able to do anything - (one who hadn't even added an Avatar on the vB forum they had been on for many years, as it was too complicated LOL) these people jump right in and can not only use XF they are suddenly flying and posting up a storm!

This is a very common story from XF admins.

That means 1000000000000x more to me than if the Devs are spoon feeding me spin and hype all day like a certain other Forum software product, or openly deceiving and changing licensing agreements and pricing models like the other.

Your mileage may differ, and that's cool, but I would ask anyone who is seriously considering converting, or is comparing products to use the XF product here and if it is not the best forum experience you have had then go where you find that.

It's not all about the bells and whistles or management hand holding for many of is, it is about the ability to build our communities and offer them the best possible experience.

 

[whitetigergrowl]

A company who has a private equity firm worth 16 BILLION behind them and 20+(?) members of staff

vs

A new start up company made of 3 guys trying to earn a living having their earnings sucked up into a fraudulent lawsuit designed to do exactly this.


Your telling me you can't understand why one company can carry on coding like nothing is happening while the other can't?

You obviously never read my post where I mentioned that or you failed to understand it. *facepalm*

I'm also not sure how Xenforo expects to continue to keep its customer base happy and loyal with the silent treatment to said customer base.

The forum (Xenforo) was being coded before it was making a profit. You would think that movement would continue in some capacity. But it seems to have ground to a halt. Or slowed significantly.

Fact is simple. Most everyone knows about the lawsuit. Most everyone knows why Xenforo is being sued. Most everyone knows IB has money to burn. BUT if Xenforo as a company doesn't have the money to keep Xenforo going forward in even a limited capacity now, then how does it have the money to keep going even after the lawsuit is over. Because be it now or after the lawsuit, money isn't going to come raining from the sky to keep development moving forward as lawyer and other fees likely will continue to need to be paid. That is unless IB is forced to pay for those fees.

And they don't spend every waking hour of every day in court or on the phone to the lawyer or sitting in the lawyers office or even giving their evidence to the lawyers. So again, what is going on. Lurking...but little to no communication. Little to no development it seems.

So unless damages are paid to Xenforo, the money is gone regardless of winning or losing. So unless a lawyer said to stop development (doubtful), and unless developers have walked away en masse, there really is no reason for development, let alone communication, to have completely or almost completely stopped. Slowed, maybe. But not this. Not like this for this long.

Some have argued that the reason nothing more has come out is to prevent IB from using potential code against them in the lawsuit. Problem with that, is they can do that even AFTER the lawsuit is over. It doesn't have to be now. It can always be later too. That's a red herring.

So if development (let alone communication) can't happen now what makes anyone think the end of the lawsuit will get it to continue. Lack of funds or ability to do it now won't magically change things or make it all better once the lawsuit is all over.

You would think development in some capacity would continue to keep things moving and money coming in, which could help with the lawsuit. Guess it's not that important at this time.

I want Xenforo to have a good future. But it seems they would rather give every reason to believe it won't. Sad.

Like I said in my previous thread, the silence is deafening....and certainly concerning. Which is why I said for me its dangerously close to slipping into 3rd place. I don't put blind faith into companies that give their customers who are showing concern, the silent treatment. Even with lawsuits companies can still show and give signs of reassuring their customers things will and are continuing. That even after the lawsuit is done things will move on just fine. Not coming from a mod or admin of the forum...but by the developers and owners.

So yeah IB has money to burn. But does that justify every action towards its customers that Xenforo has been giving? In my humble opinion, no.

If the money isn't there to continue development now, where is the money going to come from to continue after it's all over?

Its sad because in many ways Xenforo has been shooting its own foot in how its handled all of this with its customers. Willing to lose some goodwill customers have had in the handling of all this.

At this time, because of Xenforos insistence to give the silent treatment to its customers, and its unknown future, it's just tough for me to recommend.

Now, should things improve and communication lines open back up, and the software show signs of life and improvement, then I'd have no problems recommending it.

 

[Forsaken]

I agree VB's pricing models are jacked. BUT at least there is forward movement there. I hate VB 5. VB 4 got better towards the end but was still a train wreck of sorts. But I look at more than pricing models. Because people will still pay them if they feel its the better option for them.

Forward movement means nothing when the quality is crap, and when each update introduces more bugs and more exploits.

For anyone who truly cares about their community, vBulletin is never an option because so far, I've seen nothing but incompetence when it comes to security on their part.

The forum (Xenforo) was being coded before it was making a profit. You would think that movement would continue in some capacity. But it seems to have ground to a halt. Or slowed significantly.

The difference between the beginning of XenForo and now is that when they begun development on XenForo they probably money put away to cover their expenses, and now they have a major lawsuit which is preventing them from making any money off of their business. Having a lawsuit that is going into it's third year probably has them working in whatever way they can to keep a roof over their head and food in their mouth. Taking that into consideration, I can understand development being halted.

I'd love for more communication, though really, what are they going to tell us most of the time? That the lawsuit is on-going, that they're unable to pay their own salaries, or that they've had to pick up jobs on the side to cover their expenses? One is obvious and the last two are of a personal nature, and isn't owed to customers in the slightest. In most cases, it is suggested that people not share information of on-going lawsuits, so I can see why they don't say much. About all they could do is pay lip-service to us, and then they're no better than the failure of a marketer that works at vBulletin. And when they have paid lip-service, pretty much stating the obvious, and honey coating it, people jump all over them saying it wasn't enough.

 

[whitetigergrowl]

Things are going fine thanks Moved out of doing themes mostly.

I will ignore the argument that vB has kept on developing, why can't XF, as frankly no matter what they may have done in that time, their product is still woefully behind any other, and you could put another 20 code monkeys on it, it still would be. Always been more of a quality over quantity type of person myself

I know a lot of people are frustrated with the silence here at XF, and I for one cannot give you a reason for it, nor deny that for many it is an issue.

But honestly for me, it is not an issue, I would rather have the silent treatment than have dishonest BS, or marketing hype shoved down my throat all the time

I also couldn't give a flying funk what others are saying about XF on the gossip sites lol, I love using the product, from both sides of the equation. For me it is lacking very little that I would actually need, it is a wonderful product RIGHT NOW and is still light years ahead of it's competition in terms of the user experience. I have people coming from other systems every day who are used to the old clunkers, and suddenly these people who have barely been able to do anything - (one who hadn't even added an Avatar on the vB forum they had been on for many years, as it was too complicated LOL) these people jump right in and can not only use XF they are suddenly flying and posting up a storm!

This is a very common story from XF admins.

That means 1000000000000x more to me than if the Devs are spoon feeding me spin and hype all day like a certain other Forum software product, or openly deceiving and changing licensing agreements and pricing models like the other.

Your mileage may differ, and that's cool, but I would ask anyone who is seriously considering converting, or is comparing products to use the XF product here and if it is not the best forum experience you have had then go where you find that.

It's not all about the bells and whistles or management hand holding for many of is, it is about the ability to build our communities and offer them the best possible experience.

Sucks you mostly moved out of the theme business. You really were amongst the best, if not the best in my opinion.I loved your themes!

I see silence towards a customer as no different than being treated like crap and even being dishonest. Partially because you don't know if there is dishonesty. And because essentially that's how the customer is being treated by getting the silent treatment. Some things customers don't need to know. BUT other things are beneficial to keep them in the loop on.

The problem is, some of the stuff I'm seeing is because they feel limited in saying things here without getting their posts deleted and threads locked. They feel the community has become more hostile towards those that show these types of concerns. And its not all gossip. And it's not all on gossip sites.

When legit concerns are brought up...then the person is being mocked, downplayed, or their concerns silenced (locked/deleted)...it's not good. That's becoming an unhealthy community.

I've seen people switch from Xenforo to other platforms as well. So it's not all sunshine and roses for Xenforo either as people are starting to have their faith in Xenforo shaken or tested. Or as they find Xenforo can no longer meet their needs or they are missing things other forum software offer, like better moderation.

People need to remember that both IPB and VB started off light for features and relied more heavily on their mod community as well. They too started to get a little top heavy because of the requests by their clients which started to bog down the forums a bit. It's nature of the beast, and should development continue, one that Xenforo will face sooner or later as well. Xenforo is still light in the loafers because of its lack of features. Wait till its gained a few more pounds.

At this point Xenforos fate is in the hands of the lawyers and court system. But reassurance would be nice from those in charge for a nice change.

 

[whitetigergrowl]

Forward movement means nothing when the quality is crap, and when each update introduces more bugs and more exploits.

For anyone who truly cares about their community, vBulletin is never an option because so far, I've seen nothing but incompetence when it comes to security on their part.

Every update for any software can introduce new bugs and exploits regardless of who is coding the software or what company it's for. In house testing only does so much. It's when it's in the wild the real tests begin.

VB has degraded, yes. But that doesn't explain Xenforo.

The difference between the beginning of XenForo and now is that when they begun development on XenForo they probably money put away to cover their expenses, and now they have a major lawsuit which is preventing them from making any money off of their business. Having a lawsuit that is going into it's third year probably has them working in whatever way they can to keep a roof over their head and food in their mouth. Taking that into consideration, I can understand development being halted.

So they have a major lawsuit and have no money. Understandable. But if they don't have money now for development, where are they magically going to get it after the lawsuit? Bills will likely STILL need to be paid towards the lawyers and such afterwards unless IB is forced to pay for them or reimburse Xenforo. That money is gone regardless of outcome. If they can't develop now because of lack of money what makes you honestly believe they will be able to continue to develop after the lawsuit is over?

I'd love for more communication, though really, what are they going to tell us most of the time? That the lawsuit is on-going, that they're unable to pay their own salaries, or that they've had to pick up jobs on the side to cover their expenses? One is obvious and the last two are of a personal nature, and isn't owed to customers in the slightest. In most cases, it is suggested that people not share information of on-going lawsuits, so I can see why they don't say much. About all they could do is pay lip-service to us, and then they're no better than the failure of a marketer that works at vBulletin. And when they have paid lip-service, pretty much stating the obvious, and honey coating it, people jump all over them saying it wasn't enough.

There is a difference between sharing private information about the lawsuit, and at least trying to give a heads up on things with the company and software. There are things that can be attorney pre-approved to say.

The other suspect is that maybe part of the reason development has halted isn't because it can't continue. But out of fear that IB may actually end up with Xenforo. And rather than them getting a loaded software, they get the forum as it was initially developed. In other words, a minimum. Rather than pour more into the software only to have IB end up with it. Regardless of ones opinion, thats certainly a plausible/possible reason. Is it? Who knows. It's all assumption and hypothetical reasoning at this point for anyone.

But if they don't have the money to continue development now, even in a limited capacity, I fail to see how it can continue with less money later after the lawsuit is over.

Who knows, maybe they'll surprise us all. But all silence is doing is fueling peoples fears. So in a sense Xenforo is doing some of the damage to themselves inadvertently as well.

 

[Luxus]

Hey guys, someone has sued me over an application I built. The lawsuit is nearly 3 years old. I figured 8 months ago that it isn't worth to hang on my application, so I abandoned it. But I still pay my lawyer ten thousands of dollars to win the lawsuit just for the fun of it.

 

[Onimua]

But if they don't have the money to continue development now, even in a limited capacity, I fail to see how it can continue with less money later after the lawsuit is over.

Because after the lawsuit is over and if XF wins, there will be a flood of renewals/new license purchases. I'm sure they'll be just fine post-lawsuit.

 

[John]

Because after the lawsuit is over and if XF wins, there will be a flood of renewals/new license purchases.

Do you know that for a fact?

...out of fear that IB may actually end up with Xenforo.

I personally believe this may be closer to the truth of the situation than most here are willing to admit...even to themselves.

 

[Kim]

I personally believe this may be closer to the truth of the situation than most here are willing to admit...even to themselves.

That is my biggest concern, has been for a long time. If it happens I will not be sticking around nor paying IB one red cent EVER.

Do I let that fear bother me... no I don't, I'll cross that bridge if it comes up, does the prospect of that prevent me from developing resources for here, yes it probably does in all honesty.

The vast majority of consumers however, will probably be quite happy with the situation if it did, sheeple love being herded, and there is no doubt that what IB the corporation is rich with, is professional managers who love to do that herding, and PR and marketing people that love dishing out the sort of "communication" that people are desperate for here and now in the XF world.

I am hoping that this is over within the month, one way or another I think there will be a settlement on or about the 13th.

Then all this speculation and negativity can stop... probably to be replaced with a new set of insecurities LOL people are people.

 

[whitetigergrowl]

Hey guys, someone has sued me over an application I built. The lawsuit is nearly 3 years old. I figured 8 months ago that it isn't worth to hang on my application, so I abandoned it. But I still pay my lawyer ten thousands of dollars to win the lawsuit just for the fun of it.

I actually laughed at the, "But I still pay my lawyer ten thousands of dollars to win the lawsuit just for the fun of it." part. I shouldn't have, but how it was worded was amusing to me. Sorry. :/

That is my biggest concern, has been for a long time. If it happens I will not be sticking around nor paying IB one red cent EVER.

Do I let that fear bother me... no I don't, I'll cross that bridge if it comes up, does the prospect of that prevent me from developing resources for here, yes it probably does in all honesty.

The vast majority of consumers however, will probably be quite happy with the situation if it did, sheeple love being herded, and there is no doubt that what IB the corporation is rich with, is professional managers who love to do that herding, and PR and marketing people that love dishing out the sort of "communication" that people are desperate for here and now in the XF world.

I am hoping that this is over within the month, one way or another I think there will be a settlement on or about the 13th.

Then all this speculation and negativity can stop... probably to be replaced with a new set of insecurities LOL people are people.

"sheeple love being herded"

Yes they do. lol

I like Xenforo. I really do. I hope things do pick up and improve for it and the end result of the lawsuit is favorable. We'll see. But how its all being handled at the moment towards the customers is a bit unsettling. It definitely could be handled better. People are already skeptical as it is. They don't need a reason to jump ship because of the actions or inactions of those steering the ship.

Guess we'll find out soon.

 

[D.O.A.]

oh wow its this thread again *shrugs*

 

[John]

Do I let that fear bother me... no I don't, I'll cross that bridge if it comes up, does the prospect of that prevent me from developing resources for here, yes it probably does in all honesty.

Well stated, Kim. I really do hope a few months from now we will all be having a great big laugh at IB for wasting all of our time and energies and losing in the end!

 

[Suzanne O]

To be totally honest with you all it looks like the old PHPBB forum software with the features of vBulletin and the customer service of vBulletin.