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XF 1.4 Why Are Forums Referred to by Another Name (node)?

Discussion in 'XenForo Questions and Support' started by Dan Allen, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. Dan Allen

    Dan Allen Active Member

    This is a simple question. I really hope to get good answer. Show me to be stupid, I am fine with that. Just don't you be stupid.

    The menu says Forums. Like this:

    So in Admin, I start looking for Forums and find out they are called another name, nodes.


    Is this is a good quality, or something that makes the system harder to understand?

    Seriously, I want to know the benefit of using two completely different names for the same thing in one system. Can I get help with this?

    Here is what I am thinking.

    Instead of this:

    How about this?


    Come on, fellers, can't we have some common sense?

    Thank you for the opportunity to present my point of view and to request an answer. That means a lot. What worries me is the possibility of corpo speak, a.k.a., the language of non-thought. I am really hoping for not that. Thank you again

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  2. Jeremy

    Jeremy Well-Known Member

    The phrasing on the front end is for familarity and simplicity. Users expect to find forums on your forum, so you name your node tree as such on the front end.

    However, that isn't what it actually is. A node is a unique type of structure and is not limited to forums, which is why it isn't labeled as such. There are four types of nodes that can expand beyond that. This is the more correct and technical term.
  3. Dan Allen

    Dan Allen Active Member

    Ok, thank you.
  4. 51463

    51463 Well-Known Member

    This makes me wonder. If i should use forum or forums for my next forum.

    example: animalforum.com or animalforums.com

    I always thought forums sounds better (since there will be many different forums in my forum) better but this morning I was reading about it. It seems "forum" is more grammatically correct
  5. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    I think forums is correct. Taking this site as an example, "Announcements" is a forum. "Have You Seen...? is also a forum, and so on. Together these are forums, so the plural would be the right one to use.
  6. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    Fora ;-)
  7. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

  8. RobParker

    RobParker Well-Known Member

    Forum is a Latin word so it's plural is fora :p

    Forums is obviously more common nowadays though so is allowed as well ;-)
  9. Amaury

    Amaury Well-Known Member

    I'd have to disagree here. Many places still use forum, such as http://forums.sega.com/index.php.

    However, both forum and forums are correct. Forum can be used to refer to a "forum," much as you refer to a site in singular form, that contains many forums.
  10. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    In admin cp the forum is referred to as "board" though, so maybe that is more correct.
  11. Martok

    Martok Well-Known Member

    Yes. Its called the development of language. English today is very different today than English in the middle ages. Words change their meaning and spelling over time. You only have to look at what the Americans have done to the English language in the last few hundred years to see that. ;)

    Clearly they have no clue as they can't get it right between what's on the page and what's in the URL. ;)

    Board is the forums and the other bits like the sidebar, profiles etc. When the board is made inactive, you can't use any if them, not just the forums.
  12. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Board is short for bulletin board, which in real life is a notice board and in the virtual world is the old name for what we now know as forums.

    A forum in general is 'a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.'.

    So you can see why these two terms are used.
    Amaury likes this.
  13. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Well-Known Member

    Naw... it's known as a BBS!

    BTW, thanks for the Binkley/2 flashback you sent me on. :D
  14. Dan Allen

    Dan Allen Active Member

    First of all, the last thing I want to do is alienate the support provided here. At the same time, I am depending on XenForo and the support that comes with it to accomplish things that could hardly be more important to my client. I am picking a battle here on a subject of almost no consequence, because the day might come when a matter of consequence will come out better as a result of this exercise. So please, invest a little faith here this this is a friendly, supportive discussion, even though I am a jerk about it. I am trying not to be a jerk but most of the time it is my only option, given that I am fundamentally a jerk.

    So my rhetorical questions to Jeremy are,
    1. Why not make the admin area familiar and simple? Would it not work as well?
    2. Why would I not expect to find forums in the admin areas of my forum software? In fact, it is what I expected and not finding forums is the exact thing that prompted this thread.
    3. Do you really want to play the "our nomenclature is more technically correct" card? I am here to tell you, that road is a dead end.
    At least there is no sign of corpo speak in here yet. Problem is, technical one-upsmanship is a bad road.

    I should add, my client and I both see qualities in XenForo we have seen no where else. We are here, because we think this is excellent software. I mean that very sincerely.
  15. Jeremy

    Jeremy Well-Known Member

    In the context of XenForo, yes, "Nodes" and "Node Tree" is the more appropriate and correct nomenclature to describe what it is actually describing. Think about what other softwares include when it calls the ACP forums:
    • phpBB (last time I checked, back in v2.x): forums & categories.
    • vBulletin: forums, categories, and links (I doubt this was original to the software)
    • IPB (haven't checked this in years): forums & categories (likely link forums now too but same with vB)
    • SMF: Forums & Categories
    XenForo doesn't include just forums and categories / links. It includes a simple page node type. XenForo shipped with this and having appropriate nomenclature is the better choice than familiarity in a new product. As an administrator, it is assumed that you are somewhat more technical and able to adapt, so properly naming it in the ACP makes sense in a new product. If XenForo shipped with just forums, categories, and links it can be argued that the change in name is useless, but the matter of the fact is it wasn't. If I want to create a new page, I wouldn't look under "Forums" personally, I'd look under "nodes" knowing what it is considered in the system.
    DaveL and Tracy Perry like this.
  16. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Well-Known Member

    I have to (and I'm just a piddly end user) agree with Jeremy and Brogan. If ALL the system consisted of was forum "forums" and categories (and you can even throw links in although I would expect to find them elsewhere) then the term Forums would be correct.

    BUT, there are more to it than just forums/categories. You have the Page Nodes also. I look at it no different than learning the user permissions setup of XenForo. To many people come from other software packages and then try to shoehorn the permissions for XenForo to like what "they always used to do"... and it's not designed that way.
    You just have to learn the terminology that is (and in this case correctly) used.
  17. Dan Allen

    Dan Allen Active Member

    I understand now. There really is no other way to look at this.

    Maybe changing the name of the product would help people understand it is not a system for forums. It is a general website builder that may or may not include forums.
  18. JamesBrown

    JamesBrown Well-Known Member

    You said "I understand now" then in your second paragraph showed that you do not :ROFLMAO:

    You are right though when you say it is not a system for forums, rather, right now, it is THE system for forums. Once you get over your node hangup, you'll appreciate that. (They confused me a little too at first) :)
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
    Dan Allen likes this.
  19. Dan Allen

    Dan Allen Active Member

  20. Dan Allen

    Dan Allen Active Member

    I have come to agree.
    This software is outstanding in a lot of ways and one of those ways is its solution for its intended purpose. Everything else sucks. Xen Foro is awesome. I have been meaning to circle back and let you know what you told me a while ago proved to be helpful more than you might have expected.

    JamesBrown likes this.

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