UK Online Safety Regulations and impact on Forums

Alvin63 said:
Is that what you mean?
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For me it's about the futility of trying to protect children from harm by targeting tens of thousands of sites that have never harmed anyone while some of the real danger areas, sites aimed at children, carry on as normal.

I'd argue the entire approach is unbalanced and will cause more harm than it prevents. A far better option would be to ditch the act in its entirety and encourage teachers, parents and children to all sit down together and watch 'Adolescence'.
 
benFF said:
All this talk of age verification for every signup is just unrealistic.

Hardly anyone is going to be ok with paying to join a forum, and even fewer will be happy submitting id documents (even though it's to a third party) just to ask how to help their sick hamster.

You could mitigate the issue a bit by bearing the cost yourself, but if you have hundreds of registrations a day.....
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I think the way I would approach it would be to let anyone join, but restrict what they can do - ie. no conversation messages, no viewing of images/hyperlinks etc - to be granted access to those options they would have to undergo optional age verification and they would have to pay a small one-off fee for that. The permissions system in XF is good for restricting/permitting access.
 
I know a lot of my group don't use paypal either (from when they wanted to make donations) so that wouldn't be a feasible way (for me) to age check.

So is there anything actually free out there?!! Yoti seems to claim they have a free ID option but I can't find it.

The act is all back to front as regards Government policy. If the gov had gone with ID cards for everyone then this scenario would be simpler! I think 🤔
 
Yoti is free - in that you the individual can have a free Digital ID (EasyID, etc) - that you can use at your friendly Hamster forum (who will be paying £200 a month to accept your "free" ID). There can't be a free technical solution unless the UK gov wanted to subsidise one it with tax-payers money. Then why would anyone use any of the others if there is a free one - I can't see the existing players being happy about that, not to mention that Gov IT projects don't have a stellar history of being delivered on time and on budget with the features needed.

Alvin63 said:
The act is all back to front as regards Government policy. If the gov had gone with ID cards for everyone then this scenario would be simpler! I think 🤔
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The cynic in me assumes part of pushing the act is to push Digital ID. The public said nope several times so you need to change the environment around until the public says yes. Now that's not to say that much of the act probably has been penned by people in a good faith attempt to "help", but well with age comes cynicism I guess :)
 
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One thing you all are missing is unless you hide posts from guests, having age verification only stops children posting, it doesn't stop them reading.

So all this talk about unsavory pictures/links seems irrelevant.

You still need to do the child assessment unless you wall off your whole site.
 
This is also what I think is wrong and the Government is punishing smaller or non profit making sites. If they produce legislation that requires age verification, then they should make such software freely available.
 
benFF said:
One thing you all are missing is unless you hide posts from guests, having age verification only stops children posting, it doesn't stop them reading.

So all this talk about unsavory pictures/links seems irrelevant.

You still need to do the child assessment unless you wall off your whole site.
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Yes that is something I mentioned previously. It's completely noddy logic. If you have age verification you don't need to do a lengthy child risk assessment - but having age verification doesn't stop guest viewing! But you've complied. I suspect the age verification is more to prevent grooming type things. Within the general risk assessment you've already had to put measures in place to prevent harmful content. The age verification is just instead of doing a separate child risk assessment, which goes into a lot more "harms" than the standard risk assessment.
 
benFF said:
One thing you all are missing is unless you hide posts from guests, having age verification only stops children posting, it doesn't stop them reading.

So all this talk about unsavory pictures/links seems irrelevant.

You still need to do the child assessment unless you wall off your whole site.
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I did think that at first, but as far as I can make out (not a lawyer) is that in that situation your site is not user-to-user so does not fall under the act. It's akin to say a newspaper with many articles published by many authors. So as long as the content is not illegal it's not an issue. So a child can view the site as a guest - no problem, but the second they log in and it becomes user-to-user they are "at risk" and potentially your responsibility. I guess ultimately you'd need to either read the act carefully or consult a lawyer to do so on your behalf (and possibly taking into account the Ofcom guidance since they ultimately will be the ones you'll be fighting in court should you ever end up arguing over some point).

The pictures bit does raise one other "feature" I've long wanted - user permissions for rendering/using BBCode. So I'd like to be able to restrict who could use some BBCode (my original use-case was to have useful snippets Mods could use) - so such BBCode would be stripped from no-permitted user's posts (and previews). And also permissions to prevent some BBCode from rendering for some users (what you'd replace it with I don't know). So you might choose to disable IMG and URL tags from rendering for instance, etc. Anyhow never stumbled on a XF2+ add-on to do that. Although you can see how the latter might be done by looking at the various "hide" BBCode add-ons. The former however I've not seen, although presumably it'd not be too hard to construct (just maybe the previews rendering stuff which might be harder to stop I guess?)
 
Can guests click on links in post or just read? I think you can also set unregistered permissions to not viewing photos at all.
 
For those using third party age verifiers, what is the setup if they get it wrong? Do they indemnify you against any issues caused by their problem, or is it a case of insurance?
 
robt said:
For those using third party age verifiers, what is the setup if they get it wrong? Do they indemnify you against any issues caused by their problem, or is it a case of insurance?
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This doesn't answer your question but OFCOM has yet to set a threshold for that kind of failure and has stated it will be done at a later date. So while they have been quite specific about what they deem to be acceptable in terms of methodology, there's as yet no requirement regarding accuracy other then the verification must be 'highly effective'.
 
I am due to meet the local MP soon on this topic. If anyone wants to share issues public/privately on how this has impact them, any worries and concerns, costs/time taken so far etc etc feel free and I will condense and share.

I would encourage others to do similar if they can - your MP should hold a local 'surgery' or similar you can speak to them direct.
 
I think the main issue with the OSA is they require webmasters to implement functionality that either does not exist or is not intended for such use. So on one hand OFCOM aggressively threatens webmasters with very serious fines, while on the other hand the webmaster cannot comply. Small site webmasters and admins of non-profits do not have the possibility to create expensive custom software.

IMHO if OFCOM wants forum webmasters to implement things like Age Checks verification, AI triage, Claim handling, complex risk assessments, etc, then they should first make sure that there are parties that provide this technology is available for forum software. There currently is no Age Check service that caters to forum software. The same for AI triage and Claim handling. They should either take care that the functionality they demand actually exists Or they should exclude small sites and non-profits from the OSA.
 
rogerl said:
That is partly what this addon is trying to acheive

AddonsLab

Thread '[AL] Perspective API 2.x [Paid]'

AddonsLab submitted a new resource:

[AL] Perspective API 2.x - Post moderation and live feedback about post quality using Google Perspective API for XenForo 2.x

Add-On Information

This is the next version for our Perspective API add-on supporting XenForo 2.x versions.

Please visit https://www.perspectiveapi.com/ for more information regarding Google Perspective API.

This add-on integrates XenForo and Google Perspective API. The key features you get with the integration are:

  1. Support all models available in the API
  2. Per-model...
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  • Like

I can't get it working properly though as it brings down the forum (with I think escalating database locks) every few hours. We also hit the POA pricing from Google even at quiet times.
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I've just received an email update from Perspective in regards to triaging content for more illegal activities and rule breaches:
Dear Perspective users and friends,

We recently announced customizable attributes in Perspective API. Users can provide their community’s rules in plain English, as well as example comments and decisions, and receive a score that reflects whether a comment complies with their rules. This capability, powered by the latest Gemini models from Google, enables users to detect the comments they care about, which they can then label or analyze.

Because we still have a lot to learn, we’re inviting developers and researchers to join us in a limited beta program to experiment with these customizable attributes. This collaborative approach will allow us to provide technical support, gather valuable feedback, and iterate on our research in real-world scenarios.

As always, let us know of any questions by contacting us here.
Thank you,

Perspective Team
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This might well become one of the tools we need for content triage IF it becomes available for XenForo Conversations. Hopefully @AddonsLab or another developer will implement Perspective for conversations.
 
Ultimately it seems all this age verification stuff will likely be offloaded to the OS or browser level.

Apple and and Google have been holding out for year, but thanks to the Aussie social media laws it seems solutions will be rolled out this year. They talk about it on one of the recent security now podcasts.

ia.acs.org.au

Apple unveils age ID tech before Aus social media ban

Age assurance features coming ‘this year’.
ia.acs.org.au ia.acs.org.au

I’m sure more robust cross platform solutions that include desktop browsers will eventually be available.
 
zappaDPJ said:
This doesn't answer your question but OFCOM has yet to set a threshold for that kind of failure and has stated it will be done at a later date. So while they have been quite specific about what they deem to be acceptable in terms of methodology, there's as yet no requirement regarding accuracy other then the verification must be 'highly effective'.
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And done in "good faith".
 
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