UK Online Safety Regulations and impact on Forums

I doubt age verification services would tie your identity to your posts.
It greatly depends. Here in the Netherlands we have a government online identification service. If something like that is used, then it would be possible for governments to tie forum accounts to identification. Or if a commercial service is used that requires a ID to be uploaded to an account, then that can be hacked, stolen or subpoenaed as well.
There are age verification systems that do not require ID but use biometrics or content analysis. I met with two companies in the UK who use different techniques. Its really difficult to do age verification and not breach privacy or free speech.

Here is an interesting article about the topic of upcoming age verification requirements in various countries, If you read it, then you will see where I'm coming from.
Vera Eidelman, a staff attorney with ACLU, tells The Verge that existing age verification laws “are going to face a very tough battle in court.” “For the most part, requiring content providers online to verify the ages of their users is almost certainly unconstitutional, given the likelihood but it will make people uncomfortable to exercise their rights to access certain information if they have to unmask or identify themselves,” Eidelman says.
 
The OSA guidance it quite clear over what it considers acceptable age assurance. I'd say the main issue is age re-assurance if we're getting fussy, since once an account is setup we have no control over who is actually using that account, so I'm half expecting to find something in the OSA docs about periodically checking age.

Anyhow the guidance says:
  1. confirms that any age-checking methods deployed by services must be technically accurate, robust, reliable and fair in order to be considered highly effective;
  2. sets out a non-exhaustive list of methods that we consider are capable of being highly effective. They include: open banking, photo ID matching, facial age estimation, mobile network operator age checks, credit card checks, digital identity services and email-based age estimation;
  3. confirms that methods including self-declaration of age and online payments which don’t require a person to be 18 are not highly effective;
  4. stipulates that pornographic content must not be visible to users before, or during, the process of completing an age check. Nor should services host or permit content that directs or encourages users to attempt to circumvent an age assurance process; and
  5. sets expectations that sites and apps consider the interests of all users when implementing age assurance – affording strong protection to children, while taking care that privacy rights are respected and adults can still access legal pornography.
Requesting a self validation is not considered effective (well we did know that). I don't think requesting a date of birth would either be considered effective (who are these people using their actual dates of birth on random website registrations?) by their measure (although interesting to hear it's been effective in practice). Ofcom have not decided to put a threshold on what they consider "highly reliable", but they have said they may in the future. Realistically that leaves you with either figuring out your own solution (which may well be something manual like video chatting with every member and looking at their ID - if they have any) or:
  • open banking
  • photo ID matching
  • facial age estimation (now you'll be cursing that youthful look you've kept)
  • mobile network operator age checks
  • credit card checks (ie a soft credit check)
  • digital identity services
  • email-based age estimation (3rd parties basically check to see if the email has been used for other services like banking and credit cards and so forth and thereby tie the user to those services and by implication they are such and such age)
Typically access to any of these checks will be through a third party "identity" type service, which we will A) need to integrate into our registration processes and B) need to pay for. Not many of the providers I've seen publish prices, but from the few I have you're probably looking at £0.50 to £2.00 per check assuming you have sufficient volumes to interest the third party. I've been thinking about contacting https://www.verifymyage.co.uk/pricing to see what their API integration prices are and to see how that might integrate.

There may be some milage in using oAuth type logins to offload the process to someone else - eg you assume that Facebook do indeed ensure no one under (what is it 13?) can have an account so if you require a Facebook login then that maybe covers you (although last time I looked there seemed to be a lot more hoop jumping to tie into facebook auth). Still that might be one route - although you are rather tying yourself to someone else and it doesn't help your existing members. Facebook use https://www.yoti.com/ to do their age verification FWIW.

You might be able to say require a recurring membership fee payable via PayPal. So PayPal require you to be 18+ to have an account so as long as you could be sure the payment was coming from a PayPal account then in theory they are 18+. Certainly one off payments via PayPal can be done as guests and you can use debit cards for that so no guarantee there. I'm hoping (fatal mistake) that subscriptions will require an account, so in theory 18+. We might look at this as we already rely on donations so maybe a £1 a year membership fee would be considered acceptable even for members who just register to ask a few questions. Still this seems worth looking at to see if my assumptions are robust.

A lot of the "roll your own solutions" will have issues being global. For instance in the UK you can share driving licence information securely with a third party. That would prove you were 16+ (since you need a national insurance number 16+ and a provisional licence 15y9m+), but of no use for anyone outside the UK. So hence you're probably going to be pushed to the handful of third parties and their APIs where they have had to tackle this already.

This all said age assurance is really only there for two reasons:
  1. To ensure no children are using your service so that the (presumed) harsher degree of preventing harm can simply be ignored. You still have to have suitable tools to deal with all the other harms, but retrospective reporting (which is basically what we have) may well be considered enough. I'm not sure if that would be if you have child users, my fear is you may have to be more proactive.
  2. To ensure you know the ages of your members and can filter and present the site content to them in age appropriate ways. For instance maybe anyone under 18 can't use private messaging or can't see certain forum nodes, etc.
And technically unless we're constantly doing "selfie checks" or some other madness once the check is done and the account created we're back into no-mans-land again technically. However I suppose much like doing the risk assessment, due diligence has been ticked off.
 
Its really difficult to do age verification and not breach privacy or free speech.
OK even assuming there is a privacy issue if a company is hacked as you mention, I don’t understand the connection with free speech. I suppose if you were intending to say something defamatory, inciting to riot, hate crime or otherwise illegal acts then it would have an impact but those things are not included under free speech rights anyway
 
There is a highly effective method that I have been running for decades on a board with hundreds of thousands of signups. Its not 100% bulletproof because nothing is, but almost everyone falls for it. Over decades of using this system I'd say its around 98% effective.
It works really well if you do not announce that the new member needs to be 18+ and just let the member register an account. Require DOB on registration.
Then the system automatically bans the account until they reach the age of 18. The member receives a friendly message explaining what happened and that they are welcome to participate after they have reached adulthood.
How many folks input their real DOB? I always use DOB 01/01/1901 :D Though younger folks might be naive to use their real DOB
 
If everything you post is tied to your identity, then the implications are huge. it has a chilling effect on free speech. Here are some examples:

Being critical of the government, policy and government officials could allow the government officials to target you. Whistleblowers would not be able to anonymously post exposing content on forums and other platforms.
Perfectly explained.

I doubt age verification services would tie your identity to your posts. It’s needed once to verify your age at time of registration. Privacy policies would be in place. I very much doubt any age verification service would inform any forum admin of users’ real id.
And perfectly and naively denied. Sorry, Mr. Lucky.... But if you don't believe gov't-issued ID being required to participate in social media won't tie your identity to the content you post (and with potential consequences)... Well... WOW! That's a level of blind trust I cannot even begin to understand.
 
How many folks input their real DOB? I always use DOB 01/01/1901 :D Though younger folks might be naive to use their real DOB
A lot. Mind that this concerns minors. The younger the minor, the higher the likelihood that they fall for it. Very generally speaking, ~99.9% of 14 year olds but only ~70% of 17 year olds do not see this coming and fall in the trap. Generally I'd say the older the person, the more savvy the person is and the less likely they enter their real DoB. It probably depends upon your niche as well. If you are in a niche that attracts technical savvy or intelligent individuals, then its less likely to work than if you are in a niche with does not.
 
And perfectly and naively denied. Sorry, Mr. Lucky....
Harsh judgement.

But if you don't believe gov't-issued ID being required to participate in social media won't tie your identity to the content you post (and with potential consequences)... Well... WOW! That's a level of blind trust I cannot even begin to understand.
This might be your belief - distrust being your second nature. Did you actually check, how these kind of identity checks work in real life, what they expose or not? It is obviously dependent from the implementation as as there are various services out there it is possible to find out how they work. Or is you judgement just based on "belief" w/o any foundation that goes beyond that? If it's the latter it is worth nothing. Worse: It could already count as spread of conspiracy theory.
 
From speaking to engineers from two of such Age Checking service companies working with governments (one in UK and one in USA), I can tell you that privacy and tracing online accounts back to real people in case of data breach is a huge concern for them. Just mentioning the word Equifax or what malicious actors could do with such data made them shiver. Understandably so. And that was before the dawn of AI and quantum computing.
 
Or is you judgement just based on "belief" w/o any foundation that goes beyond that? If it's the latter it is worth nothing
Sadly there will be a few of those and if age verification comes about I accept we may lose a few users, but probably not the ones we would care about losing in most cases.

Most of those few we lose would probably come back once they realise that this is probably the inevitable future of the internet and it is widespread practice. They already think nothing of showing id to delivery drivers.

My main concern is that the reputable or trustable age verification services will not come cheap.
 
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You get shot down for anything you say on that "admin community".
It’s like you know me so well. I expect to appear on the whiner blogs soon enough.

But it was who called me a fear-monger that amused me the most. I won’t go into details, but suffice to say, pot, kettle, blacker than your or my soul.
 
Sadly there will be a few of those and if age verification comes about I accept we may lose a few users, but probably not the ones we would care about losing in most cases.

Most of those few we lose would probably comeback once they realise that this is probably the inevitable future of the internet and it is widespread practice. They already think nothing of showing id to delivery drivers.

My main concern is that the reputable or trustable age verification services will not come cheap.
I suspect once they’re gone, they’re gone. Why would they prove their age/identity to a little service when they can just do so to a big service like FB and get everything they want there?

Though I’m still not convinced the age checking is nearly as universally required as is being implied.
 
It’s like you know me so well. I expect to appear on the whiner blogs soon enough.

But it was who called me a fear-monger that amused me the most. I won’t go into details, but suffice to say, pot, kettle, blacker than your or my soul.
You appear on my winner blog. 😊
 
You appear on my winner blog. 😊
Let me put it this way, the writer who accused me of fear-mongering about this law happily engages in writing material that would be very much suspect under this law and the only reason she isn’t banned everywhere as a groomer is because she’s writing about a fictional character getting groomed, and exploring the effects that has, and (as far as anyone knows) isn’t actually grooming anyone herself.

But it gives you context into the interesting views others can have.
 
Why would they prove their age/identity to a little service
They wouldn’t necessarily be providing it to a little service though. They’d probably be providing it to a very large authorised and reputable age checking agency.

People already have got used to giving their credit card number these days and it’s made clear they aren’t giving it to some scruffy looking ne’er-do-well running a saxophone forum, they are giving it to Stripe.

But:
Though I’m still not convinced the age checking is nearly as universally required as is being implied.
Nor me I’m awaiting and seeing but meanwhile it’s difficult to not speculate or be prepared.

If I was to continue to speculate, which I won’t, but if I was to I’d be concerned about whether age verification needs to be applied retrospectively to existing members. But luckily I’m not concerned as I’m not going to be speculating about that…
 
... Certainly one off payments via PayPal can be done as guests and you can use debit cards for that so no guarantee there. I'm hoping (fatal mistake) that subscriptions will require an account, so in theory 18+. ...
Well finally tested this and alas you can setup subscriptions as a "guest" checkout in paypal. Of course how I'm going to cancel my test subscription without a PayPal account associated with the subscription is another matter :) (I suspect I will either have to contact them or associate an account with the email) but it seems that wont be an easy win solution for us at least. Shame I'd been rather hoping it might be. :(
 
I've been thinking about contacting https://www.verifymyage.co.uk/pricing to see what their API integration prices are and to see how that might integrate.
They say 45p with discounts for bulk use. Sounds very reasonable and customers include big companies such as Toolstation.
That would prove you were 16+ (since you need a national insurance number 16+ and a provisional licence 15y9m+),
I think it’s 18+ though for these regulations
 
They say 45p with discounts for bulk use
Just registering an account (you certainly need to be a business to do this). Ploughing through the contract the key points are probably
  1. It's a 12 month contract during which they will be your exclusive age check company, no using anyone else. You agree to pay them 60p for each check you did with someone else if you break the contract.
  2. You can cancel the contract within 7 days of signing up or by giving them 3 months notice (possibly that has to be clear of the end of the contract, not quite sure on the wording there)
  3. The company actually supplying the service is KYC AVC UK Ltd / Verifymy Limited
  4. Confirmations look to be limited to 18+ (so you're just getting a yes/no)
  5. For under 4000 transactions per month it's £1 per "check" (prices may increase annually)
  6. Looks like you need to splash their logo and statement on services
Well lets see what they offer then ... will report back once I've had a bit of a play. It looks like the service was aimed at age restricted sales (thinking things like knives, etc), however selling "age restricted memberships" would seem to qualify as a product in my mind, so hopefully good.
 
For under 4000 transactions per month it's £1 per "check" (prices may increase annually)
Yes, sorry I was wrong the 45p was for eBay.

I can live with £1 per check but sounds less reasonable (especially if it has to be done retrospectively), but not so happy about smashing their log (except at point of use, e.g. registration)

OTOH I wonder about making registration cover that, ie £1 to join. It would would put some off obviously but maybe not the ones that would go on the be the good members.

Anyway, let's not speculate...
 
I'm half thinking (bit out loud here...) that maybe we let anyone register an account, but we prevent anyone who doesn't validate their age as 18+ from using private messages and maybe keep them in moderation. Now that could be a PIA if you have a lot of posting from new members, but from the OSA docs it does seem that private messaging is one of the key kickers when it comes to children. I don't really see how a limited account like that is very different from an anonymous viewer (who isn't in scope), except maybe I guess having an account allows someone to be targeted for bullying and the like, but with restrictions at least that is public and can be addressed. Anyhow some kind of hybrid like that might keep costs more modest and would avoid putting off the new member who is just asking a question or two. It may be that with a decent risk assessment and some other reasonable tools age checking is all a moot point anyway.
 
I'm half thinking (bit out loud here...) that maybe we let anyone register an account, but we prevent anyone who doesn't validate their age as 18+ from using private messages
I already do that, just seems common sense.
and maybe keep them in moderation.
No I don't do that, I don't see it as relevant. It will just annoy them. If it's in the open any suspected grooming will be reported very very quickly.
 
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