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The real value/message behind Christmas lost?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by master412160, Dec 25, 2010.

  1. master412160

    master412160 Member

    Christmas used to be diffrent, now today its more for presents and good eating, talking. Like its Easter but then just other type of celebrating.

    The real values have been forgotten, the tradition way of celebrating it has stopped.

    How can we get Christmas back like it should be celebrated instead like many do now?
  2. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Are you referring to its pagan origins?

    "In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast."
    Kaiser, Nick, dieketzer and 5 others like this.
  3. master412160

    master412160 Member

    No I am referring to that today the feast is not anymore about Christian tradition and why we celebrate Christmas. Its just presents and all, but Christmas isn't just about getting presents and eating nice dinner with family its more then that. But that is the problem.
  4. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    Even leaving out the Christian aspect of it for us Christians.......

    Here in the U.S., Christmas used to be a time of happiness, love, the smell of baking pies, breads, and puddings, Christmas lights and decorating together, Christmas caroling from house to house, telling the Christmas story around the tree on Christmas eve, gathering in front of the TV with popcorn to watch the holiday cartoons like Frosty the Snowman and Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer, and movies like It's a Wonderful Life, and Miracle on 34th Street, and of course, the Christmas Story. Gathering on Christmas day, spending time with friends and family, cooking a huge feast, saying "grace" before eating because you really were thankful to have what you have.

    Oh and let's not forget the homemade ornaments on the tree, and handmade gifts.

    THOSE were the good days, and the good times.
  5. steven s

    steven s Well-Known Member

    For me it was watching this as a kid.

    That's what I remember about Christmas.
  6. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    oh yeah....

    I remember sitting in front of the fireplace with my grandpa, playing checkers and drinking hot chocolate, on Christmas eve (and many other nights in the winter), with christmas music playing in the background.
  7. steven s

    steven s Well-Known Member

    You had a fireplace. We had a B/W TV. :)
  8. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    So did we. ;)
  9. Jethro

    Jethro Well-Known Member

    You may want to do some research on how the concept came about, as Brogan points out it was a pagan festival adopted into Christianity to help spread the religon into new areas of Europe. Now of course it's all about praying to the consumer gods.

    For the record had a great Xmas, good meal with family, some drinks, and some good conversation. Started real bad when we found our son had left the door to back fridge open, spoiling a whole bunch of stuff intended for Xmas lunch. Thankfully since DF always thinks we are having the whole of the State's population coming over there was still lots to eat.
    Steve Machol likes this.
  10. Quillz

    Quillz Well-Known Member

    Funny because that's still how I celebrate Christmas, minus the caroling from house to house.

    I have to say it fairly irks me when people claim that Christmas is "lost." Maybe to some, but many people still understand and celebrate the real meaning of Christmas.
    TWTCommish likes this.
  11. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    I try to maintain our traditions as well with my son. It's a bit more difficult because all of my family is in Florida, and my son and I are in Ohio, but I still try to make it like it was when I was growing up. We didn't get to go on a hayride at the church like we did last year tho. TOO cold and too much snow. Didn't go caroling this year either.

    So personally, the real meaning of Christmas is very much alive for me and mine. But for many it is not, so I can understand why they say that. It has become much too commercialized, sadly.
  12. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    Yep we know all about the original pagan origin. But we celebrate Christmas from the Christian perspective - the birth of Christ.

    Glad you had a great day with family. Merry Christmas!
  13. Fred Sherman

    Fred Sherman Well-Known Member

    A little boy who noticed the huge red-and-green sign spray-painted on a department story: "Happy Xmas." And he wondered aloud about the X. Why was it X-mas? And finally, in a forlorn voice, he asked his dad: "Did they cross Christ out of Christmas, Daddy?" And the father had never thought of it that way before, but finally nodded. "Yes, Son, I guess they did."

    There's only one problem with that: it isn't true. Self-righteous hysteria over supposedly taking Christ out of Christmas by writing "Xmas" instead of spelling out "Christmas" is both uninformed and misdirected.

    Christianity has a long history of using symbols and abbreviations to allow the early believers to identify one another while avoiding persecution. Take this symbol, for example:

    I'm sure most of you recognize the icthus, the Greek word for "fish". But its also an acronym for the Greek phrase of "Jesus Christ God's Son is Saviour":


    The letters from the Greek alphabet are, in order: Iota Chi Theta Upsilon Sigma.

    The letter Chi stands for Cristos, which is Greek for Christ. In Greek, it looks like:


    The first two letters, Chi and Rho, which were used in the early church to create the chi-rho monogram which should be familiar to most Catholics:

    Some of us are old enough that we took printing in shop class, so we know how tedious early printing presses were. Because of that, abbreviations were used to make printing easier, faster and less expensive.

    In religious publications, the church began to use the abbreviation C for the word "Christ" to cut down on the cost of the books and pamphlets. From there, the abbreviation moved into general use in newspapers and other publications, and "Xmas" became an accepted way of printing "Christmas" (along with the abbreviations Xian and Xianity). Even Webster’s dictionary acknowledges that the abbreviation Xmas was in common use by the middle of the sixteenth century.

    So, the truth is that the "X" in Xmas isn't the English letter X, but rather the Greek letter Chi which has been a Christian symbol for Christ for well over a thousand years.

    By the way, Xmas isn't pronounced "EX-MAS", but exactly the same way Christmas is pronounced.

    Its also true that Christianity has a history of taking what people already know and celebrate and incorporating that into the faith. That doesn't make it any less Christian. On the contrary, it is following the example of Our Lord when he walked among us. He used the ordinary things in life to explain God to us. The Kingdom of Heaven is like a mustard seed. The faithful are like vines attached tot he true branch. And this makes perfect sense, because God is present in the ordinary as well as the extraordinary.

    Its also true that Jesus was likely born at a time other than December 25th, but it would be inaccurate to say it was a Christ "take over" of the feast of the Son of Isis. A round AD 200, Clement of Alexandria wrote that a group in Egypt celebrated the nativity on 25 Pashons. Sometime between then and 311 AD, earliest known reference to the the nativity as December 25 is found in the Chronography of 354, the early church adopted the Gregorian calendar in place of the Coptic calendar.

    The modern Sol scholar Steven Hijmans states empahatically, ""[W]hile the winter solstice on or around the 25th of December was well established in the Roman imperial calendar, there is no evidence that a religious celebration of Sol on that day antedated the celebration of Christmas". Therefore the belief that Christmas is founded in pagan celebration really holds no historical basis when one considers it from a historical perspective.

    After all, Roman Britain was the part of the island of Great Britain controlled by the Roman Empire between AD 43 and about 410. Christianity wasn't even legal in the Roman empire until Saint Constantine issued the Edict of Milan in 313. So it is unlikely that any Western pagan influence had anything to do with the placement of the celebration on December 25th.
    Any Eastern pagan influence would have taken hold in the eastern church which retained the coptic calendar and Hellenist celebration. Even today, they celebrate Christmas on Jan 6th, the date the westerm church celebrates the Nativity.

    Merry Xmas, folks!
    TWTCommish likes this.
  14. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    It's not all self-righteous hysteria Fred, lol.

    Many people who are either atheist or otherwise do not believe in either God or that Jesus was the son of God, use Xmas when speaking of Christmas, as well.
    Then there are those who simply use xmas as a shortcut. Kind of like bday for birthday.

    It matters not to me. I know what it's all about. :)
  15. Quillz

    Quillz Well-Known Member

    Actually, no one really knows when Jesus was born. December 25 was picked by Christianity to coincide and thus "erase" the pagan holiday from memory. There are no records of the exact date that Jesus was born, so December 25 is as good a guess as any other.
    Jethro likes this.
  16. Jose Amaral Mota

    Jose Amaral Mota Active Member

    After Harvest and during burning of the fields. (Months before this date known as Dec.25(4th century thing)

    That P.H. is still celebrated by in Rome ( You can see some people Pray towards the sun during the Pope Speech) and by some Portuguese...
  17. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    Absolutely right. I don't think the pagan holiday was called Christmas, was it?
  18. Shelley

    Shelley Well-Known Member

    I could be wrong, but wasn't Christianity forced upon Europeans? Many butchered for believing in a earlier religious belief system, if they didn't take up (at the time) the new system by the world super power of the romans? Maybe those were the good old days, the origins of Christianity, the true meaning of christmas.

    Maybe someone can correct me with that. :)
  19. Peggy

    Peggy Well-Known Member

    No those were definitely not the "good old days". The Christian church and the Roman church were two different things.

    I know that there were religious zealots who did what you're talking about in the name of Christianity, but the actual Christian church did not condone such practices. Even the early Christians - Paul, Peter, Andrew, etc, were murdered in the name of the roman church (supposedly) for believing in and preaching about Jesus Christ.

    Every religion has it's zealots. I am always careful not to confuse one with the other.
    John and TWTCommish like this.
  20. TWTCommish

    TWTCommish Member

    Christmas' supposed "pagan origins" are a bit of a fallacy, but it gets repeated quite a bit.
    John likes this.

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